chase_rawlins

This will be my first trip to Europe. I will be there for about 85 days.

I plan to go in Mid June and come back Mid September. Any advice on where to go or how to plan, where to stay, eat, or how long to stay would be appreciated.

land in Madrid - 5 days
pamplona- 2 days (running of the bulls)
barcelona - 5
montepellier - 2
nice - 2
genoa 2
florence 2
rome 5
naples 2
bari 1
(take ferry)
Crete 3
athens 4
(fly to Venice)
venice - 3
Switzerland (need suggestions) 5
munich 3
vienna 3
prague 4
berlin 4
(fly to amsterdam)
amsterdam - 3
bruges - 3
Paris -4

total of 70 days which leaves roughly 2 weeks on the in between for travel time.

I plan to get the 3 month Eurail pass to make my travel as easy as possible.


Also I know this isn't the forum for it but I would love to meet up with some other people backpacking anywhere in Europe!

BigRuss

Wouldn't make a priority of Naples. Four in Athens is at least one and about two too many, there's not that much to see (Plaka, Acropolis, Olympic sites, done). Greece is a bit of an outlier generally and you're backtracking to go to Greece and back to Italy.

Draw it all out on a map and see where you cross over the lines - that's where you've fouled up.

brotherleelove2004

Understand that you can't get a ferry from Bari to Crete. You'll have to go to Athens first for that ferry.

janisj

You have the luxury of time - IMO to use it to run scatter shot all over Europe is a waste of a wonderful opportunity. You could actually stop a while in a few of those places (interspersed w/ some shorter stays) and not end up packing and moving every 2 or 3 days. By about the 7th or 8th destination they may all be a blur.

But it is your trip.

clausar

<< Four in Athens is at least one and about two too many, there's not that much to see (Plaka, Acropolis, Olympic sites, done) >>

You mean that YOU haven't seen much of Athens...
Athens has much more than that....

OP could eventually fly from Rome directly to Athens or even to Crete , since easyjet is flying to Heraklion.
Otherwise a ferry Bari - Patras, bus or train to Athens and ferry from Piraeus to Crete... ( this might be more expensive than a flight)

Heimdall

BigRuss missed out on a lot if he thinks that's all there is to see in Athens. I've been there many times, and still have things on my "must see" list.

Going from Bari to Crete by surface transport will take about two days in total: overnight ferry to Patras; bus from Patras to Athens; another overnight ferry from Piraeus to Crete.

Jean

I agree with janisj.

You've dedicated 14-15 days for travel between destinations, but is that enough? Have you plotted this itinerary out in real time?

How can someone say Naples shouldn't be a priority when we don't know why the OP chose to include it?

janisj

Meant to add - as it is you have 21 destinations - that takes more than the 2 weeks travel time you've allocated.

ssachida

another suggestion: every destination on your list is a city. Intersperse your city destinations with the country side and smaller towns. For example: florence 2 + tuscany 4 + rome 5.

If it was me going from city to city for 85 days, I'd have art and architecture fatigue inside of 2 weeks.

Southam

Before buying any rail pass, work out approximate point-to-point fares. Sure, it will take some time, but passes are not automatically a bargain. Some trains require separate reservations that can be a hassle and reduce your flexibility anyow.

chase_rawlins

I have picked up a few travel guides and have changed my itinerary a bit.

Madrid - 6 days
morning travel to Pamplona
Pamplona - 2 days
morning travel to Barcelona
Barcelona - 4 days
morning travel to Nice
Nice - 2 days
Interlaken - 5 days
Cinque Terre - 4 days
Rome - 5 days
Florence - 3 days
Venice - 3 days
Vienna - 4 days
Prague 4 days
Berlin - 6
Rhine - 3
Amsterdam - 4
Bruges - 2
Paris - 5

This is my new rough draft, I plan to only book the first 2 or 3 days in the major stops like Madrid and Berlin and then play the other locations by ear. I should know if I am about ready to move on to a different place after a few days so I can call or email hostels in the next destination and make my reservations. How does that sound? I also cut out some of the more difficult places to get to such as Athens and the Greek islands.
any suggestions?

nytraveler

Traveling all over europe in the heights of summer vacation without reservations means either:

1) you have an unlimited budget
2) you are extremely flexible and location and amenities (elevator, AC, etc) or you won;t mind hostels that are not very pelasnat (drugs, thievery,etc) - the good ons are booked early
3) you don;t mind spending a half a day finding a hostel or hotel in each city you come to

Without knowing your interests it's hard to comment on where yuo will be and for how long (CT for 4 days for hiking?)

And you still haven;t given yoursefl any time outside of major cities. (I am defiitely a big city person and have to see every museum, cathedral, castle, ballet, opera and love fine dining and exploring neighborhoods - but still add some countryside to every trip that is more than a single city).

janisj

>>I plan to only book the first 2 or 3 days in the major stops like Madrid and Berlin and then play the other locations by ear. I should know if I am about ready to move on to a different place after a few days so I can call or email hostels in the next destination and make my reservations. How does that sound?<<

Totally doable some places. But many of the cities you list - good luck finding accommodations at the last minute, or at all.

If you read some of the threads on here, folks are already having trouble finding budget accommodations in popular destinations for this summer. And you have picked some VERY popular destinations.

kja

I think you've greatly improved your plan and will have a much better time as a result.

As others are saying, waiting to reserve lodging could add greatly to your costs and mean that you stay in some decidedly dodgy rooms. Booking ahead at places that allow free cancellation if you do so 24 or 48 hours in advance is well worth considering. You could check booking.com -- just be sure the rooms you read the cancellation policies, as they vary from room to room.

Knowing a bit about your interests would help us comment on whether the amount of time you are allotting for each location makes sense.

Watzmann

Looks like a good trip. The cities you list are the most popular ones among tourists from overseas.
Many places not on that list are equally beautiful and have a lower tourist density.

chase_rawlins

I don't really have much interest in museums. I want to see ruins, temples, catacombs. I plan to rent a bike whenever I can and ride around seeing what I can see. I plan to go out maybe twice or 3 times a week only because I have a limited budget.
So which cities should I book ahead? I have a students travel guide and according to t a lot of hostels won't take reservations until about a month before your stay.
Also I have been watching Kayak.com and other travel websites for the best airfare. When is the best time to book? I am leaving beginning of July so I still have 3 months.

Also you experienced travelers please suggest some god smaller places to visit. I took those destinations out of a student travel guide and Rick Steves best of Europe.

isabel

I think your new itinerary is really quite reasonable. It is mostly big cities but with 4 or more days in a city you can do day trips to outlying towns if you want. And as you continue to research your trip you can tweak it a bit ( e.g. shave some days off CT and add to Tuscany, etc. - things like that you don't have to decide till closer to the time you'll be there).

I would certainly book airfare ASAP. You could get a random sale if you wait, but just as likely (or more so) fare will be going up.

I don't stay in hostels but the good budget hotels (1-3 star) are already booking up. If you were planning on using hotels, pensions, guest houses, B&Bs - I would say you'd be crazy not to book ahead. In mid summer waiting till the last minute certainly means you will pay more, get crappy accommodations and waste a lot of time. But youth hostels may be different - but are you sure? I would email some of the ones you are thinking of and ask how far in advance you can/need to book. If they say they usually have vacancies a few days before your want to stay then your plan could work. But I'd want to be sure. And if they say they book up a month or more ahead then I'd forfeit flexibility for the time saving and knowledge that I had a place to stay.

PalenQ

seems like a well-thought out itinerary - especially the newer version - and for lots of great info on trains and passes check out these IMO fantastic sites - www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.seat61.com and www.ricksteves.com. With a pass in France, spain and Italy you will still need to make mandatory seat reservations at a few euros but in most other countries you can just hop on any train anytime.

Consider overnight trains to save on travel time and the cost of a night in a hotel.

msteacher

You should also visit the Thorntree forum on the Lonely Planet website. Lots more student backpackers on that site, who can give better tips on hostels. Happy planning!

Watzmann

"please suggest some god smaller places to visit"
I would rather encourage you to read further and broaden your view for the opportunities you have.
For example:
You know, there is not really "the total untouristy spot" in , say, Italy. And the quest for it is a bloody waste of time and makes people unhappy.
Yet, really everybody, for instance, goes to Pisa, Florence and Siena, cities of which everybody has pictures in mind already. So, you double-check reality with the photographs in your brain when you look at the real slanted tower or the real David and so on.
Nothing bad about it, the reality of things still can be an overwhelming experience.
But you could also, as an example, visit the city of Lucca not far away from Pisa.
Lucca isn't untouristy, but nothing compared to Florence in Summer (where I'd personally would go to only in November, least crowded, but I'd go there for the museums and churches and things like that).

You say, you are not interested in Museums. So, the Uffizii-Museum, one big reason why you can consider it a MUST to go to Florence, can't be your reason to choose Florence as destination.
Think about, why you want to go to a particular city and why not to the lesser known next to it.
As for "experience real italian city-lifestyle"- if that's interesting for you - not in Florence or Siena or Pisa or Verona...in the main season.
I don't say: Don't go to Florence! Florence is great. But maybe it would be fruitful, if you thought about your motives, why you want to go to this or that particular place and and have a look at the places around the big names you've chosen.