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Help with London, Scotland, Ireland Itinerary

Help with London, Scotland, Ireland Itinerary

Old Mar 18th, 2003, 04:12 PM
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Help with London, Scotland, Ireland Itinerary

My husband and I will be arriving in London on May 20. We've never been to Europe. I have so many questions. Hope you can help!

We have 5 full days in London (5/21-5/26). We want to take one day trip to Stonehenge. The rest of the days we plan to just play-by-ear. Probably will do bus tours, etc. We're not ones for being really structured. We're staying in a hotel on Cromwell. Would you recommend taking the Heathrow Express or the tube? Would you recommend buying a London Visitor Travelcard? I'm thinking of a 4 day for Zones 1 and 2. Would that get us about everywhere? Except not from Heathrow, right? If we don't have a travelcard at Heathrow will we have to stand in long lines to get a tube pass? Would you recommend a London Pass? We've been told not to wear jeans in London. Would you recommend taking a pair or two for Scotland/Ireland?

On 5/26 we train up to Lancaster where we have a condo and rent a car. 5/27 we plan to drive around the Lake District getting used to driving on the left side of the road! Tell me it's easy to get used to! On 5/28, we drive to Edinburgh via Carlisle then east to A68 and north through the Borders. We'll just have that night and the next morning in Edinburgh. We only have 3 days in Scotland. I know it's not enough, but that's all we have. On 5/29, we'll drive to Killin via St. Andrews, Stirling and The Troussachs. We're staying in B&B's and have one picked out on Loch Tay. On 5/30, we'll drive to Glencoe, Oban and down to around Saltcoats or Kilmarnock for that night. 5/31 we drive back to Lancaster. Is this too much? Will we get a fair idea of Scotland on this route?

On 6/1 we train to Liverpool for one night. The next day train to Holyhead to pick up the ferry to Dublin. We rent a car in Dublin and stay one night.

On 6/3 we drive from Dublin, through Kilkenny to Cashel.
6/4 from Cashel to Clonakilty.
6/5 from Clonakilty to Kenmare.
6/6 from Kenmare to Ballylongford
6/7 from Ballylongford to Doolin
6/8 Doolin to Shannon
6/9 Leave Shannon

I didn't include all the things we plan to stop and see, i.e. some castles, the Bear Penninsula, Ring of Kerry (maybe not all the way around), Cliff of Moher, and pubs, of course, etc. We prefer to see countryside scenery and meeting people rather than the large cities.

Is this doable? Do you have suggestions for a better itinary so we won't miss something really spectacular?

Thanks so much.

P.
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Old Mar 19th, 2003, 10:06 PM
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Topping for the British Isles experts.
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Old Mar 19th, 2003, 10:20 PM
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OK; my tuppenceworthBR>
Yake the Tube. You have a chunck of London to cross by taxi or bus if you take the Heathrow Express.

The stuff about jeans is nonsense. Wear what you like.

You will get a fair idea about a small part of Scotland on your route. You cross many landscape types and go from Lowland into Highland. The route you've sketched out is quite doable tho' you've left little stopping time.
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Old Mar 20th, 2003, 04:12 AM
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Stonehenge is a nice destination for a day trip, but since the visit only takes most people an hour, it's good to combine it with something else.

Public-transport access means taking a train to Salisbury and then a bus to Stonehencge, so spending the rest of the day in Salisbury would be worthiwhile. Or you could sign up for one of the many day tours that include Stonehenge along with either Salisbury, Cotswolds, or even Bath (though IMHO this is rushed). We thoroughly enjoyed Astral Travels' Inner Circle tour which visits many sites in the area and then enters Stonehenge after hours (during regular hours, nobody's allowed actually within the circle).

If you are spending one of your 4 days outside London, then a 4-day visitors travelcard might not be as economical as 3 one-day passes that you buy each morning after you arrive. The visitors travelcard actually comes in a version that incorporates one return (i.e., round trip) trip to Heathrow. Most tourist atractions are in Zone 1; Greenwich and the zoo are the most popular tourist destinations in Zone 2.

The LondonPass is not a good buy for most visitors, since so many of the attractions, especially museums, are free anyway.

"Play-by ear" can be relaxing and fun, but there is SO much to do in London, you might find it worthwhile to figure out your highest-prioirty sights and plot them on a map so you can do things that are close to each other on the same day rather than chasing all over town, spending too much of your precious limited time on the tube.

People do wear jeans in London. IMHO, the problem with taking jeans for traveling is that they are difficult to wash out and take forever to dry.
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Old Mar 20th, 2003, 04:37 AM
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Ooops, I just realized that I misread the duration of your stay. Just be aware that the 4-day visitors travelcard would be good for 4 *consecutive* days, not 4 days separated by a day at Stonehenge.

IMHO, you might as well just buy a regular 7-day travelcard at the tube when you get to London, unless the price of the Visitors Travelcard with the Heathrow extension works out better. 7-day travelcards bought in London require a passport-sized photo, which the ticket-seller will incorporate into a card holder that is re-useable. Visitors travelcards and London-bought daily and weekend travelcards don't require the photo.
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Old Mar 20th, 2003, 08:13 AM
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Hi Pooh:

I'll just speak to the Ireland section since there are greater experts on Scotland and London.

I think the plan you have is doable and though everybody would say slow down and spend multiple nights in each location, I think you can certainly enjoy this trip.

I like the towns you have chosen to stay in. Some will suggest that missing Dingle is a terrible thing, but you can't see all of Ireland in that amount of time and I think you are getting a reasonable taste. Both Beara and the Ring of Kerry are a pretty full day each. You might consider trying to get a pretty early start from Kenmare around the Ring and then may cut through the middle of the Peninsula to Kilorglin and then high tail it to Ballylongford. This will be a VERY full day. I don't know anything about Ballylongford though I looked at their website. It should be off the beaten path toursit wise and might be quite fun. Tell us about it when you get back.

You might enjoy reading McCarthy's Bar by Pete McCarthy. It's an amusing tale of his travels in Ireland and he focuses a lot of time on southern coast of Ireland.

Bill
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Old Mar 20th, 2003, 05:39 PM
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Thanks everyone! When I first started planning our trip, I had us driving many more miles to try to see everything. After reading a lot of messages, I cut it down considerably. I just wanted to make sure that I still wasn't stretching it too thin. Sounds like from your replies, we'll do OK.

Thanks for the book suggestion, Bill. Sounds like a good book to take on the plane!

Pooh
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Old Mar 20th, 2003, 05:57 PM
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It looks like I'll be in Scotland during your visit there. I'm flying into Edinburgh May 15th and back out on May 29th. (originating in Chicago)

I have your same problem but in reverse. I'm spending most of my time in Edinburgh with friends that live there but would like to take a short trip to London. I've investigated the transportation options and keep coming back to a motorcoach. It's a third the cost of rail or air. Yes, it's an 8 hour drive but hopefully through pretty countryside. Has anyone ever been?

I'm making the Scotland trip to celebrate my 40th birthday and this is my first trip to the UK. I'm already sure it won't be my last.
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Old Mar 20th, 2003, 06:48 PM
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Pooh,

Concerning the Ireland portion of your trip, I do believe you're spreading things too thin.

A single day in Clonakility, for example, will leave you with little more than a tease of the splendors of West Cork. Surely you'd want a minimum of two days in this distinctive and relatively untouristy region.

As an alternative, consider leaving Clonakilty for a future trip, and head directly from Cashel to Kenmare, thereby allowing you another full day to explore the Beara Peninsula, Ring of Kerry, or Killarney Natiional Park - all of which have much to offer.

Here's something to consider when you're staying in North Kerry: Take a ferry out on the Shannon Estuary for a visit to Scattery Island. The island hasn't been inhabited for 30-odd years, but you'll find the remains of a sixth century monastery, including a well-preserved round tower and the remains of some churches. Trips to Scattery leave from the town of Kilrush in southwest Clare.

Finally, here's another plug for the Mccarthy's Bar, a fast-paced and very entertaining romp through Ireland. Another memoir well worth your consideration is An Innocent in Ireland, by David W. McFadden. Published in 1995, McFadden, a Canadian, sets out on his Irish odyssey to follow the path of the classic 1930 Irish travelogue, In Search of Ireland, by H.V. Morton. McFadden's account of the mid-90s Ireland is thoughtful and very well written.

Best of luck.
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Old Mar 22nd, 2003, 02:55 PM
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I just watched a documentary on SW Ireland. They talked about Dingle and Ring of Kerry but nothing about Beara. Also, after what David said, I'm wondering if we should not go to Beara and go to Dingle? I chose Beara because I understand it is not as crowded with tourists, but will we be missing too much by not going to Dingle?
For those of you who have been to both, which would you choose if you could only do one?

Pooh
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Old Mar 22nd, 2003, 03:23 PM
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That's a tough one. Both Beara and Dingle are outstanding. Dingle, I think has more "to-do's", what with the number of ancient sites such as the Gallarus Oratory, the town of Dingle, Slea Head, etc.

But then again, the dramatic and nearly isolated scenery on Beara was my favorite part of Ireland, hands down. Perhaps a compromise solution may be to do a couple hour loop from south to north on the drive to Kenmare through the Healey Pass on Beara. You'd at least get a taste of the views and then could give more time to Dingle?
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Old Mar 22nd, 2003, 03:35 PM
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If this is your first Europe trip I would skip Stonehenge. If you plan one day from London there are many more interesting places (a search on this site will throw up lots). Stonehenge is a few hours journey from London as you know. I am surprised Stonehenge appears so high on people's list of things to do especially when there is limited time.
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Old Mar 22nd, 2003, 05:44 PM
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Unless you are disabled or otherwise poor at walking you will find just one bus tour within London enough, to learn early in your visit the layout of the city and what places look like that you will visit later. After that you need, as you say, a travel card, to cut your costs on tubes and busses. Not to save standing in line: most of the time lines to buy tickets are short or none.

I recommend the tube, not the Heathrow Express. The tube goes straight to Gloucester Road, and a lift goes up to street level, where taxis wait.

Many people wear jeans in London.

I am not the man to advise on your motor tour.

Welcome to London

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Old Mar 23rd, 2003, 10:57 AM
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OK - the Scotland bit.

Firstly, I'd cut out St Andrews - it's not exactly "en route" from Edinburgh to Stirling - better to go up the M9 from there.

Secondly, staying in Kilmarnock? There's really not much there for tourists (so I gather from my wife who grew up there!) You could instead consider staying in Glasgow for the night, or alternatvely just north near Loch Lomond.

A third option would be to just stay in Edinburgh for the three days. You could easily spend that time in seeing the city, and come back again to do the rest. Of the three, that's what I'd do (but I'm biased, I live there!)
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Old Mar 23rd, 2003, 11:01 AM
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I would suggest that you take the bus or walk as much as possible. You can't see the wonderful architecture, people and places from the underground.
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Old Mar 23rd, 2003, 05:54 PM
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Ben, thanks for the advice to take the tube from Heathrow and that there is a lift at Gloucester. That's good to know.

Keith - I'm afraid my husband must go to St. Andrews. The only reason I was planning on Kilmarnock is we will be making our way back down to Lancaster and I'm having difficulty finding many B&B's in the area and there is one in Kilmarnock. I wanted to get a little past Glasgow so we won't have such a drive the next day. Does anyone know of a good website for B&B's in Scotland? Or can you recommend a B&B a little south of Glasgow? Also I think my accommodation in Killin on Loch Tay may have fallen through. So I'm needing a B&B there also. Is there anything that is a "must see" south of Glasgow in the Dumfries/Galloway area or should we just get on down the road to the Lake District?

Thanks so much. You're all so helpful.

Pooh
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Old Mar 23rd, 2003, 05:58 PM
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Clifton - Thanks for the info on Beara. I think we'll take your advice and try to get in some of both but we definitely won't miss Beara. Are the roads around the clifts pretty terrifying?
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Old Mar 23rd, 2003, 09:57 PM
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I didn't think the roads were too bad on Beara, compared to some spots we managed to find ourselves elsewhere. I think the worst place we found was in Northwest Waterford, looking for some waterfall and ended up winding around on a single gravel farm road type of path, but nothing like that on Beara or Dingle.

You should just drive slowly as the views are not to be missed - but there are hairpins on both the Healey pass on Beara and the Connor Pass on Dingle. Try to find a wider spot to pull over as you go before ogling too much! Being distracted is the bigger danger, but the heights and drops are nothing compared to some of the drives the the passes in the Rockies, if you've been done those. You'll find lots of wider little spots here and there to turn out, in order to take a photo, get your bearings, let a local by or just sit and gaze for awhile.

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Old Mar 24th, 2003, 03:51 AM
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OK - re-reading some of this I tend to agree with Sheila that you won't have much time to stop! If St Andrews is a must, then you could try re-routing through Perthshire from there and skip Stirling. You'll probably find that you might want to spend more time in St Andrews than you think, especially if your husband is into golf!

As for heading south again, I would suggest looking at somewhere on the Ayrshire coast rather than Kilmarnock - Saltcoats would be an option, but so would Troon - another golf town - or Ayr itself. Another hour or so south would take you into Dumfriesshire, and another range of options opens up there.

As for B&B booking, you could try www.visitscotland.com. It's the website for the Scottish tourist agency and has a section which (appears) to let you book online - I'm not sure if this works though becasue I haven't actually tried it!
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