Help with Italy/Greece/Istanbul trip
 

I am from the states and just got back from a trip to Switzerland. It was my first trip out of the country and the reason Switzerland was chosen is that my great, great grandfather on my dad's mother's side was from Grindelwald. (We also went to Austria but that was just because it was too convenient not to soak that in as well).

"The bug has bitten" - The trip was amazing and I want to plan another trip next summer (because we need time to save up money). The trip would be myself and my girlfriend. We would probably have to limit the trip length to 2 weeks max, maybe less. My top choices are Italy and Greece. I also am very fascinated with Instanbul.

**Here is my ideal plan,** - I am posting here because I don't know if it is realistic, and even if it is, I don't know what things I would need to consider when planning:

We would fly in to Italy (which airport would depend on flight prices). We would spend roughly 2 long days in Rome, 1-2 days in Venice, and 1-2 days in Genoa or Milan. We would have rail passes and take trains between the cities. We would then fly to Athens and spend 2-3 days there, then take a train to Thessaloniki or somewhere else that is towards Turkey. Then we would take another train to Istanbul and spend 2-3 days there before flying home to the states from Istanbul.

Our budget will probably be around $7,000 USD. That is for flights and hotel and everything. We would spend roughly a combined $1,500 on 'regional' travel. I can get our from and to USA flights for about $1,000 USD per person round trip. That leaves about $3,500 USD for let's say roughly 12 days and 11 nights of hotel, travel, food, and expenses. That is roughly $291 per day which (I would hope) to be like $120 hotel, $100 food/drinks, $70 on sight-seeing admission etc. per day which hopefully would be enough to be comfortable as well as see/do enough stuff to make it an unforgettable trip. We are both frugal and indulgent at the same time i.e. we are careful enough of what we spend on our money that we can consistently 'splurge' as well.

Is the route efficient?
Are there better places to consider?
Is the trip length reasonable?
Are the prices within reason?
Even if all "yes" what are the major considerations?
What languages should we learn, if only conversational?
What pitfalls do we need to ensure we avoid?
And any links to helpful information/stories/advice would be greatly appreciated as well!

Rail passes are rarely cost effective in Italy especially for this type of itinerary. It will be cheaper to buy point-to-point tickets from the Italian rail company Trenitalia most likely which includes the mandatory seat reservation on all the faster trains (passes don't include it - 10€ each).

>>>1-2 days in Genoa or Milan.<<<

Why? Unless you have something you simply cannot miss in these cities, I would drop both of them.

You are not allowing enough time for Rome. Two hotel nights somewhere only gives you one sightseeing day. You are planning too much travel too far (Greece/Turkey).

You will not find trains the mode of transport for Greece. It will be best to fly Aegean Airlines from Rome to Athens (or check Milan also).

With only two weeks, I would limit the trip to Italy only.

I agree... I'd look to spending the whole time in Italy with 3 days each in Rome, Florence, Venice, with the remainder shorter trips to places like Pisa. You're going to spend way too much time traversing between cities and not enough time seeing them.

Each move from A to B typically takes half to a whole day. I think you are spreading yourselves too thin and will not enjoy the experience or learn much about the places you're visiting by spending such a short amount of time in each.

If money is tight, you can also save heaps by limiting your transport costs by covering less territory. That money can be spend on sightseeing and food.

I also suggest that you choose a mixture of cities, small towns and rural villages to get a broader experience.

For language, I think that learning the courtesies is always a good idea.

I agree with other posters that I'd choose only one country with two weeks ('or maybe less').

I'm amazed that you can get RT fares for that itinerary for only $1K - unless it's midwinter. I'm seeing almost $1500 each RT NY to London. Are you sure these fares are good for the time you'll be traveling?

And agree that you will have too much time in transit versus actually see/doing things. (And 2 nights in a city means 1 full day - no matter what tour brochures may say).

>>>I can get our from and to USA flights for about $1,000 USD per person round trip. <<<

I agree with nyt. You won't get airfare that cheap from most US cities in season most likely. Since next summer air fares aren't released yet (usually only bookable about 10 months in advance for US airlines), you can't possibly know what they will be.

With only 11 hotel nights, you should limit to three locations, possibly four.

You also need to figure euro, not dollars (except for airfare). $120 for a hotel night is only 86€.

I appreciate the responses so far and welcome more!

We just spent 5 nights in Switzerland and 2 nights in Austria and we do not feel like we experienced everything but we do feel like we experienced enough in that short of a time that, considering the long list of places we want to visit and that life is short and funds are not unlimited, we would rather visit shortly all of the many countries than extendedly a small portion of countries.

I don't think we will look for a single-country trip. Maybe we should cut off Istanbul and it would be more reasonable. Some of you said it wouldn't be enough time but you did not say how much time you think would be more appropriate. Please share more of your thoughts they are much appreciated!!

Oh and as far as the flights I have a good connection to get better prices than what is advertised, that part was not a question. I did however have several questions that I would really appreciated answered :) I am impressed with this community so far!

What are your interests specifically? It would be difficult to really experience all of those countries in 2 weeks (or less) and quite challenging to experience 2 of them in the same time frame. Other places you could consider for Greece are Santorini, Mykonos, Crete, Ios and for Turkey are Antalya, Pamukkale, Cesme. You could pick 2 of those places (probably 1 from Greece or Turkey) and add it to Athens and Istanbul for a great trip.

Or spend the 2 whole weeks in Italy. Loads of choices here besides Rome, Venice and Milan. Florence, Cinque Terre, Amalfi Coast, Naples. I haven't gone to Italy yet, so I can't give you tips here but I'm in the process of planning and it's easy, quick and cheap to get around, especially in comparison to Greece and Turkey.

I'm glad you enjoyed your first trip abroad! And I concur with the advice you have already been given: pare your trip down! WAY down!

You aren't taking travel time into account (and are considering an area many times larger than Switzerland, with transit that is almost certainly less efficient and less reliable - not necessarily bad, just not as good or frequent as Switzerland's remarkably accessible public transportation).

You aren't giving "major" destinations there due, and maybe the "uniqueness" of Switzerland has driven you astray. (IME, large Swiss cities, like Zurich, can be meaningfully visited in a stay of 2 or 3 days. Cities like Rome or Istanbul easily merit closer to a week just to scratch the surface!)

Here's my recommendation: Get a few really good travel books. (Get several from your local library to see which ones seem most useful to you. You might start with the Rough Guide or Lonely Planet.) Sit down with them and figure out what you really want to see in these places. Use that information to decide how much time you want to spend in the places you want to visit. Then get information about how long it will take to go from one place to another, add in AT LEAST a couple of hours on either side (to get to/from your hotels, to pack/unpack, check in/out of hotels, etc.) and lay it out on a calendar and a map. Only then will you be in a position to decide how to allocate your time. Once you have narrowed your options, read other sections of the guidebooks: the sections on hotels and restaurants and events so you can see if those factors make a difference to you. And - if this trip is for you and your GF, keep her as involved as she is willing to be in every step of the planning process. :-)

Whatever you choose, I'm sure it will be wonderful!

Hope this helps.

If you really want a three-country trip, you could consider limiting yourself to three cities: Rome, Athens, Istanbul, connected by flights. (You don't have time to travel from Athens to Turkey overland.) I don't know Turkey, but there are several great day-trip possibilities from Rome to give you a bit more variety should you want it (medieval Orvieto, the ruins of Ostia Antica, the gardens of Tivoli, among others), and from Athens you can visit the island of Hydra for the day for a quick taste of island life.

@Kja that is fabulous advice thank you! I really take heed to the points of the uniqueness of those places and the uniqueness of Switzerland, as far as number of things to see as well as transportation efficiency. This information will be a great help in forming our plans.

I agree with everything said above. Airfares won't be this low unless you get a winter deal, and winter isn't the best time for this itinerary.

Regardless, I would streamline what you have, and probably start in Istanbul. So....

Istanbul 3 or 4 days

Fly to Athens

Athens 3 or 4 days

Rome 3 or 4 days

Fly home

This will give you a minimal taste of three countries. It can be done, but it will be a whirlwind tour.

Sorry, left out a key step.

Obviously, you will fly between Athens and Rome.

You will have to check all of this out very carefully. Flights between countries can be ridiculously expensive unless you catch a sale, in which case you might want to rethink everything and spend all your time and money in one or two countries max.

I agree with those that are saying Rome, Athens, and Istanbul. But I would really recommend cutting out Italy and going to Athens, Santorini, Istanbul and book a 2 day Cappadocia tour. Santorini is so beautiful, the highlight of Greece IMO. Even a friend who has studied philosophy and classics extensively talked more about Santorini than Anthens when she got back home. You won't regret it at all.

"considering the long list of places we want to visit and that life is short and funds are not unlimited, we would rather visit shortly all of the many countries than extendedly a small portion of countries."

Clearly, an individual choice. But keep a few things in mind:

(1) the time you spend relocating is time that you could have spent doing or seeing something -- there WILL BE an opportunity cost. And even if you take overnight trains or otherwise use transportation as your down-time, it is unlikely to be completely relaxing -- the overnight schedule will not likely perfectly match your diurnal rhythm; there will be stops and starts and sounds that waken you; etc.

(2) Seeing a place or two in any one country is not the same as seeing the country. Seeing Rome is a wonderful thing to do. Seeing Rome is UNLIKE seeing Florence or Venice or Naples or Palermo or Lecce or ANYWHERE ELSE in Italy. Seeing Istanbul is a wonderful thing to do. Istanbul is NOT LIKE any other place in Turkey. And some cities in different countries are more similar to one another than two cities in the same country. So unless you are seeking some kind of bragging rights, wanting to see X number of countries on any particular trip isn't necessarily a good reason for choosing locations.

(3) There ARE differences between countries that can affect one's travel experiences and can add to the time it takes to orient to a new country beyond what it would take to orient to a new city -- differences in how bus stops are marked or how one pays for a subway ride or what is included in the charge (and what is not) of what appears on your table after you order a meal. The more countries you visit, the more disorienting these "little" things can become.

(4) Knowing even a few words or phrases in the language of the country you visit can vastly improve your experience of that country. The more countries one visits on the same trip, the less able most of us are to pull up even the most basic civilities.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't visit places that are in 2 or more countries if that is your choice. I'm just pointing to some costs of doing so that novice travelers don't always consider.

Good luck!

If you really don't want to visit only one country, then a Rome, Athens, Istanbul itinerary would be a reasonable idea. I personally don't like flying much (and it chews up a lot of time and is environmentally not great) so would not choose this itinerary for myself but it does give you a taster.

If you have, say, 12 nights on the ground (plus 2 enroute to/from Europe), then another possibility given your stated preferences might be Venice (3) train to Rome (3) fly/ferry to Greek island (3) ferry to Athens (3).

But I'd still visit one country or close regions. If the bug has bitten, it won't be your last trip.

EasyJet, Vueling, and Aegean fly Rome to Athens, and Pegasus and Aegean fly from Athens to Istanbul, all at reasonable prices.

The problem with Rome, Athens and Istanbul is that they are all large, international cities, and in a way, you will have less diversity than if you saw three different places within either of the three countries. These countries are huge geographically by comparison with Switzerland, and each has a huge variety of landscape and culture.

Italy has absolutely everything from lakes and Mountains to vulcanos and dramatic seaside cliffs, from walled medieval villages in Tuscany to the watery streets of Venice, from the beauty of ancient Rome to the ruins of Pompeii and islands like Capri, etc., etc., etc., plus endless art everywhere.

Istanbul needs several days to see highlights and outside of Istanbul, Turkey offers landscape like no other place. Include ruins like Ephesus and you need a couple of weeks for only the highlights.

Greece has an amazing variety of islands and art and archeological sites that require time getting to and time to savor.

Because of your Switzerland experience, it is hard to comprehend that any of the other three countries could give you the variety and experiences of several countries. Why waste time and money seeking what is near at hand? You have time to really research while you are saving up your money. Seriously consider picking one country and capturing the variety it has to offer.

Sassafrass is absolutely right. Each country has so much variety you could visit any of them for far more than two weeks and have a much more varied experience than visiting three major cities.