night

Thanks for all of your helpful input. Larryincolorado, you have been most helpful in determining whether to use the rail pass vs. the Bayernkarte! I am truly greatful! While we don't want to count just dollars, it doesn't appear that the pass makes up the difference in cost by added convenience as comparted to the Bayern.

Switching our itinerary to have 1 night in Rothenburg, 4 nights in Munich, 3 nights in Prague and 1 last night in Frankfurt does not seem out of the question for us as we did quite a lot of moving about on our last trip to Italy with the kids. We found that we didn't mind a half a day or so train rides in between busy walking tour days. However, we are definitely taking your suggestions into consideration and are talking about leaving Prague out for a future trip. Before we make that decision, can anyone tell me whether it is possible to take the night train from Prague to Frankfurt on a Bayernkarte? Also, how about the issue of security on the train at night? In other countries, I have heard there is a problem with theft while you sleep.

Larryincolorado's comments on changing trains twice to Rothenburg are also eye-opening. Perhaps we should think about spending the night in Wurzburg instead of Rothenburg. How do these two towns compare? If Rothenburg has significantly more to offer, then it may be worth renting a car one way to Munich from the airport as that one poster suggested and drive the Romantic Road to Munich.

Larryincolorado

There is a night train from Prague to Frankfurt. It is EN 352 (Johannes Keppler). It comes out of Prague as part of EN 362 Orion to Munich and separates from Orion in Leipzig. So far, I have not been successful at finding any way to book this train online. Orion, however, can be booked on the Nachtzugriese website. I have looked on that website and most accommodations, particularly for four people, seem to already be booked. If that is any indication of Keppler, it might be too late. That is why I have been focusing on the day train to/from Prague. You might try calling Nachtzugreise in Germany at 49 1805 14 15 14 and see if they can book it for you. I have heard that someone there will speak English.

As for using a Bayern-Ticket for a night train. I don't think so, but I don't know for sure. I do know that one can use the Aufpreis (supplement, sometimes called reservations) with point-point tickets. CNL confirmed this to me years ago. But I think they have to be tickets for the same, or comparable (ie, EC or IC) trains, not regionals.

Don't worry so much about changing trains. It's no big deal; people do it all the time. In Steinach, there is only a few tracks, five maybe. Everyone getting off the train will be going to the track with the train to Rothenburg. Stay with the herd and you won't get left behind.

In Würzburg, you will probably have to go down stairs to the cross tunnel, over a few stair, and back up to the new platform, but it looks like you will have plenty of time (15 minutes).

Larryincolorado

OK, may I have the envelope, please.

After careful consideration and plenty of discussion on this site, this is what I recommend.

Forget the rail pass.

Day 1: arrive in Frankfurt. Buy a RMV Preisstufe 5 Gruppentageskarte (Price level 5 group day ticket) for €22. That will get the four of you to Kahl, the first stop in Bavaria. Also, at FRA, buy a Bayern-Ticket for €27. That will get you the rest of the way to Rothenburg odT.
Total cost €49. Going this way will take about 3:45, 37 minutes longer than if you had a rail pass.

Day 2: Rothenburg to Munich. Buy a €27 Bayern-Ticket. Leave Rothenburg at 9:06 and go by regional trains to Munich, arriving at 12:33. Going this way will take about 56 minutes longer than if you had a rail pass.

Day 6: Munich to Prague. Buy another €27 Bayern-Ticket. This is a "no brainer", 'cause the fastest routes to Prague use only regional trains from Munich to the Czech border. No extra time. If you buy Anschluss tickets from the border at Furth im Wald, it will cost €37,40 for you and your wife, and your kids are free. That is according to the DB website. Whether you go from Munich to the border with a Bayern-Ticket or a rail pass, the ticketing situation in the Czech Republic is the same.

Day 8: Buy a Czech Rail ticket for four to the border at Furth im Wald. Adult fares are 204 Kc (about €7,11 per person). Children are supposed to be half fare, but you need a youth card, which requires photos and showing ID at a Czech Rail ticket office. Probably not worth it for €7. Total cost, Prague to border, €28,44. Again, same situation with rail pass or Bayern Ticket.

You will have needed to purchase a Bayern-Ticket for this day before you left Munich. Also purchase a €29 Hessenticket. When you buy your tickets for the border in Prague, explain that you want to go to Nürnberg. The train gets split in Schwandorf. They will put you into one of the cars for Nürnberg, not for Munich.

From Nürnberg you connect by regional trains to Frankfurt Hbf at around 6 PM. By having the Hessenticket, you can use any conveyances in Frankfurt to reach your hotel. Furth to Nürnberg takes 9:16 by regional train vs. 7:49 with a rail pass, 1 hour 27 minutes longer.

Total fare with this method, on legs for which you could have used a German Rail pass, is €159, about $220. That's a saving of $360 versus the rail passes. That's a lot of money to save for three extra hours and, maybe, not so much comfort. As a bonus, with the Bayern and Hessen Tickets, you have unlimited free use of all conveyance in Munich and Frankfurt when you arrive. With a rail pass you have only the use of S-bahns.

PalenQ

i agree that this seems a good plan for your scenario seeing you're willing to sacrifice comfort and time.

PalenQ

regional trains i've been on in 2nd class often can be crowded IME, especially when groups of school kids board for a few stops - you may not find four seats together - but if you're going in summer this school bus type regional trains shouldn't be a factor.

Personally i'd splurge and buy a first-class German Railpass and go in real comfort and finding empty seats a lot easier. If i were traveling with two kids that age i'd pay the extra rather than potentially facing crowded regional trains that do take longer.

PalenQ

Have you consider a car rental? For a family that may be the most easy way to do a leisurely trip - no baggage to lug around on trains, especially regional ones with less baggage room and changing trains so much.

It may cost more but i think it could have benefits.

night

Larryincolorado, I will print this e-mail string and take it with me. I can't thank you enough. Can you tell me if the train out of Prague stops in Mainz? I just read on a different string that it was a good place to stay the night for a flight leaving out of FRA the next day, (ours leaves at 4:00 p.m.) I tried to search for a rental car to do that 8 hour trip from Prague more comfortably, but autoeurope is booked. I will keep looking.

My final itnerary is:

Day 1: Rothenburg (Arrive FRA, train to Rothenburg)
Day 2: Munich (Spend day in Rothenburg/Train to Munich)
Day 3: Munich
Day 4: Munich (Day trip to Fussen)
Day 5: Munich (Day trip to Salzburg)
Day 6: Prague (via train)
Day 7: Prague
Day 8: Prague
Day 9: Mainz or Frankfurt (via train)
Day 10: Fly out of FRA

Thanks to all of you for your input! I will be sure to do a trip report and be HONEST about what worked and what didn't to add to the pool of info on this fabulous forum.

Larryincolorado

The route from Prague goes first to Frankfurt, then through FRA, then to Mainz or Wiesbaden. German Rail sells tickets from Kahl to Mainz for two adults for €24,80 (kids under 15 are free). You could buy those tickets in Munich. That would be cheaper than the Hessen Ticket I first recommended.

There are three reasonably priced hotels across the Bahnhofplatz from the Hbf in Mainz. They are Hotel Hammer (www.hotel-hammer.com), Hotel Schottenhof (www.hotel-schottenhof.de), and Hotel Königshof (www.hotel-koenigshof-mainz.de). I have stayed in Schottenhof twice. The last time I wasn't too impressed, but as I passed Königshof on my way to the Bahnhof, I thought it look nicer. Any of them will probably be OK.

Larryincolorado

Speaking of kid free. Because DB doesn't charge for kids under 15 when their parents pay full fare, most of your fares in Germany would be for just two adults. You could travel by the same trains you would with a rail pass and still save a little.

FRA to Rothenburg would be €72. Rothenburg to Munich - €112. You should still use the Bayern-Ticket to Furth, because it is all by regional train anyway. Furth to Mainz would be €138.

That way you could save 3 hours, ride in nicer trains, but your savings over rail passes would go from $360 to $98.

SuperJ

Sorry but you have got to be crazy to head to Prague;2 days of travel for one day there. There is way too much to see in Prague to do it justice in a day. I would spend the time in Salzburg and consider heading up to Eagle's Nest (Hitler's summer house) as a side trip.