Help with first time trip with family
 

We are finally taking a European trip.

Here are our facts
*We are a family of five: girls are 9, 11, 14
*planning on going for two to three weeks
*Original plan was to fly into London, train to Paris and train to and fly out of Milan (but I have noticed posts saying NOT to do that, but not sure why)
* While we want to see London, Paris and Milan- ideally we would be spending more time outside of these big cities. We know that we don't have time to really do much there so want to experience more small town culture with the short amount of time we do have
* we are active and any ideas of hikes, biking, even camping (if we can easily get equipment) are welcome.
* we are using United miles- so any help with best cities or ways to fly I would love to know.


Thank you!!!

Paris to Milan train, no real idea why, have a look at seat61.com and see what he says, just note that you may not get much sleep on the train, you may need to take a picnic.

Open Jaw is a great way to use the time well.

When are you going as it affects what to do but if I was looking at this sort of thing I might look at cycling down a river somewhere like the Mosel or along a canal near Auxerre. These sort of areas have camp sites or family appartments to allow you to go out each day, stay in a small town and ride bikes. See also Alsace, The Rhone, Burgundy etc etc.

What sort of heat are you used to BTW?

What time of year? You've picked 3 big cities. How do you plan to get to the "small town" venues?

If you don't have camping equipment, don't camp. Most campgrounds have chalets/mobilehomes, but they need to be reserved well in advance if you're traveling in summer.

Paris Milan is easy by plane. Ryanair - low cost - flies to bergamo. Check easy jet too.
Close and nice. From there go to the lake of Como. Hike there.

No idea what is best entry point - not familiar with US inbound.

Open jaw is a perfect idea.

With UA miles, Milan flights to return back to U.S. is probably the easiest one to find of the major Italian airports. But do what-ifs to verify.

Even if you return from Milan, it is NOT necessary to fly into Milan from elsewhere.

If early spring or late fall, mountain hiking is not favorable. Cable cars are not running between the seasons for maintenance, and hotels are closed.

Camping? Hmmm. With that many people, you need a big car by local standard, much steeper €€ adder in Europe than in the U.S. (Since you are flying UA, I presume that is where you are from.) And if you cannot drive a stick shift, it is even more €€€€ adder. If you fancy renting a car in one country and dropping off elsewhere, there would be €€€€€€€€ adder.

"While we want to see London, Paris and Milan- ideally we would be spending more time outside of these big cities. We know that we don't have time to really do much there so want to experience more small town culture with the short amount of time we do have... hikes, biking, even camping"

Settle on seeing one big city well (probably London for first-timers, 4-5 nights??) and maybe one big city superficially (maybe Paris, 2 nights with a city tour of some sort.) (Everyone can say they saw Paris.) Then spend the rest of your time indulging your interests in smaller, more scenic, more easily-manageable towns.

Your post is marked for Germany and Switzerland too. So if you can fly out of Zurich, you could take a mostly direct route in the direction of Zurich after Paris. Smaller places to investigate:

1.) The Rhine/Mosel rivers in Germany - Trier, Cochem, Boppard, Bacharach (think old-world towns, castles, biking and hiking.)

2.) The French Alsace - Strasbourg, Colmar.

3.) The Black Forest, a very big area - Gutach is a good place to start:

http://www.bensbauernhof.com/gutachimschwarzwald.html

4.) The Bernese Oberland - Interlaken, Lauterbrunnen, Wengen, and more.

I see no reason you could not fly into London, train to Paris and home from Milan, so no idea why anyone told you it was not a good idea. It really depends on what you want. Right now, there are other things to look at.

1. Will it be 2 weeks or 3 weeks? There is such a huge difference in what you can do, you can't plan the itinerary, book tickets, book hotels, etc. without knowing how much time you will have "on the ground." Two nights in a place gives 1 full day. Two weeks gives you about 12 days. Travel from one place to another once you are there will eat up time too.

2. Smaller towns are fine, but when you do go to major cities, do not shortchange them time wise. Cities are already busy, but they will seem crazy if you try to cram a weeks worth of sightseeing into a day or two. Slow it down a bit and enjoy the parks, rivers, etc. that abound in European cities.

Just my opinion, but 2 nights in Paris is a very bad idea. That is only 1 day, not even enough to get a sense of the place. Paris is a wonderful city for walking and exploring, with lots to do, walking along the river, through parks, etc., etc.

3. When is the trip? Weather and length of days may affect suggestions and options.

I love Paris, but I'd skip it rather than spend a mere two days there. Spend enough time in a place that you have a feel for it, that you get to the the two or three places that are the highest priority for you. 4-5 nights as per Fussgaenger (above) is a mere 3 to 4 days and is not enough time to see London well. I love cities and would spend a week in each London and Paris - believe me, there is plenty to do!

From there, fly or train to Milan and rent a car there to be able to explore just a bit of Italy by car, visiting smaller cities and towns.

"Just my opinion, but 2 nights in Paris is a very bad idea. That is only 1 day, not even enough to get a sense of the place."

Yeah, I'm not married to the idea either, and if they have 3 weeks they ought to stay a 3rd night if possible. But in fact it's only about 2 hours between London and Paris on the Eurostar... drop bags at the hotel and you still have 1.5 days or more. It's certainly not the worst idea if you just want a quick look around before you pursue your real interests. Take a Seine cruise, take a tour, have a nice meal or two - then come back to Paris for what you missed on your 2nd honeymoon or in the case of the kids on summer break from college.

"Slow it down a bit and enjoy the parks, rivers, etc. that abound in European cities."

I understand that perspective and I also understand the OP's desire to be outside the city in old-world towns and the great outdoors rather than the manicured outdoors. They cannot do full justice to 3 major cities AND do what they really have in mind in 2-3 weeks.

Curious as to the attraction in Milan for a first Europe trip?

Always remember...making travel plans is half the fun. Really looks like a nice way to see Europe...wondering about Milan rather than Florence or Venice, e.g. But you mentioned hiking etc. and being the right ages surely you must get out in the English countryside, Provence, Swiss Alps, e.g. Our daughter and hubby celebrated their 25th anniversary with a trip from us and were enamored with Provence, not much with noisy Paris (but loved Louvre). I do favor London and surrounding area. Time of year, weather certainly factors. I would advise maybe not camping but locating charming B & Bs, chalets, quaint hotels, etc. So this could be short trips. Added word: talk a lot with those three girls, i.e. as to their top interests. I'm trying to think...what must you plan ahead in detail or could you just vagabond?

OK here is another idea, fly into London, spend 3/4 days in London/see tower of London/ Buckingham Palace/city tour/a museum etc. then train/bus/chunnel to Paris 3/4 days...

Then get a train pass/Swiss Pass in Switzerland/children free might be under 15 or so, flex pass. train to Wengan/Murren stay in lovely mountain village, can go between 3 villages on Swiss Pass ..via cable car etc Wengen/Murren/Grindelwald. Lovely hiking, lovely mountains etc. Fly back out from Zurich. Forget the camping and find less expensive places to stay with help of this Fodors site. Maybe B and B places. Get weather report for when you plan to travel.Chalets can be more reasonable in this area I found. Sue

Thank you everyone for all your advice! Such a wonderful community!

To answer some the questions asked:

*We are planning on going in late May
* We are very comfortable in hot weather (desert hiking is a favorite)
*Thanks for all the advice on camping- had no idea if it was even possible. So we are scratching that one off our list.
* The reason why Milan was even on the list was it seemed like a good place to fly out of south of Paris. The girls are more tied to seeing London and Paris and outside regions.
* While I would like the idea of Vagabonding- I would prefer having more planned places to stay given we are bringing our kids. That said, if there is low to no risk in finding places to stay I may be more open to it.

Thanks again everyone!

I have no objections to vagabonding, but just note that things can get a bit more complicated when you need accommodations for five. That would make we a little wary.

I too have questions about Milano . . a giant bustling urban metropolis, not in the tourist ranks of London and Paris. There's the Duomo, The Last Supper, La Galleria and La Scala.

Consider the post above that mentioned the Rhine, the Vosges region of France and the Black Forest area. Biking along the Mosel is easy and your girls would like it. Trier is easy by train from Paris. The little towns in the Vosges might be better by car but if you have no car, train service from Strasbourg to Basel with stops in between is excellent.