gradyghost

Ira: Inasmuch as you have impressed me as being a real "with it" hombre, I am thunderstruck that you persist in relying on paper maps, in what now must be seen as dinosaurist behavior, for your European navigation exploits. I invite your attention to my earlier trip report on driving in France. I am reminded of the WWII tune about "how can you keep them down on the farm after they've seen Paree". I ask, how can you navigate in any other way while driving after using GPS?

>NAVIGATING WHILE DRIVING: After reading about Underhill's difficulties in navigating the bridges in Rouen, I decided to have none of that or of dealing the odd signage so well explained by (I think) Just Retired in his posts. As with most things, the devil appeared to be in the details of understanding all that. So I bought a Garmin handheld iQue 3600 GPS, loaded it with a map of Europe, and listened to a very pleasant voice direct me through all the turns, including roundabouts. Except for a few aggressive drivers, the stress of driving was nonexistent.<

Please do yourself a favor. Gradyghost

AnselmAdorne

Patrick, you're right about running into choices to get to where you're going.

The blue signs are the easiest to understand because they direct you to the autoroute. As for green and white, I would phrase it a little differently. Green signs show the route to next major destination, such as Toulouse, Montpellier, Nîmes, or Arles, and they are very handy if you want to drive through a large town. For example, if you want to drive east to west through Carcassonne, simply follow the green signs for Toulouse, the next major city to the west. It's like following a trail of bread crumbs. (Unless you miss one, then you start to feel like you're in a game of snakes and ladders.)

I thought the white signs are for small towns in between, but I'll add, as you did, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Having said all that, I had a lot of trouble with French road signs the first time I was there, and it was only on my second trip that I found the zipper, so to speak. Suddenly it all seemed terribly logical. I don't know whether that's a good sign or not.

Anselm

StCirq

I love Anselm's description - it's perfect.

As for GPS - no WAY I want some *voice* guiding me through my vacation. Cutting-edge? Fine - I'll do it on a business trip in the States. While I'm gliding through Carennac, no thanks!

gradyghost

If you'd rather keep your head in the cockpit with your trusty map, go for it. I find the voice guidance unobtrusive and only used when necessary. When I gliding, there is nothing but silence and no need to clutch a partially folded Michelin in my hands in anticipation of the next turn.

flygirl

You have to try REALLY hard to get lost in France, or just be really navigation-deficient. I think it is one of the best signposted countries I've driven in yet. Each intersection or roundabout will show route numbers and the next large town(s) in that given direction.

good luck and have a great time!

ggnga

Hi Ira,

I have driven in France with no trouble too. I love the roundabouts with the town/city markers also. I will ask my hotel the direction of town I am going and write down the sequence. town A, to B to C etc. I also use a map but frequently just follow the signs from town A to B to C til my final stop.

I have gotten lost a few times but usually trace my route back and can easily see where I missed the direction of Town A sign.

I have never needed to use Route numbers much, the town signs do it for me. Also, I am usually solo and must be driver and navigator.

I cannot wait until my Sept./Oct. trip where I can drive/wander through Normandy/Brittany. I plan to just go where the urge takes me.

I feel so honored giving advice to Ira!

gg

ira

Thanks for all of the great responses, folks.

Patrick
>Routes are color coded -- minor roads are white signs, major roads are green signs, and autoroute or express roads are blue signs ..<

Which explains why they the D roads are yellow, the N routes are red and the Autoroutes are red/white on the Michelin map.

Thanks, Ronda.
Yes, I have seen them.

Hi marcy_
>I saw that you've already booked your hotels for this trip-- Have you booked your flights, too?<

Not yet. I am waiting for the prices to go down. My ATL/BOD-CDG/ATL is currently $731 at http://airtravelcenter.com/onetrav.htm

I expect to see the price about $650 in April or May.

Hi GG,
>Inasmuch as you have impressed me as being a real "with it" hombre, I am thunderstruck that you persist in relying on paper maps,...<

A good point.

When I lived on a boat, I had GPS, radar, charts on CD, RDF, depth sounder, VHF radio, autopilot and paper charts (about 30 pounds of them), because getting lost could endanger the boat.

Having escaped from the world to a small town in GA, I don't mind getting lost occasionally. So I'm not going to buy a pocketPC or GPS, even though there are good arguments for owning them.

>I feel so honored giving advice to Ira!<

My blushes, gg.
Thank you for your help.

gradyghost

Hello Ira: With that explanation, I am greatly relieved that I no longer need worry about you struggling with your maps. I too had a fishing boat, mine on Mobile Bay, and when I discovered GPS, I found that I could concentrate more on the scenery and that has carried over to the highway. I regret that I could not offer a substantive response to your inquiry and am pleased that others have done so well. GG

PamSF

One thing we realized, when using the Michelin maps in the South of France,the directional "cities" are usually underlined. When you arrive at a roundabout and cannot find the name of what you might be looking for, consider Toutes l'autres directions.

If it is any consolation, we found driving in France so much easier than driving in Italy. We seldom drove on the freeway in France and sometimes ended up on tiny squiggly roads but always enjoyed ourselves.

StuDudley

>>>when using the Michelin maps in the South of France,the directional "cities" are usually underlined. <<<

I think the cities that are underlined in the Michelin Maps are the ones with either restaurants or hotels reommended in their Rede Guide.

Stu Dudley

AnselmAdorne

PamSF and Stu ... Michelin maps are colour coded. The cities that have green destination road signs on the highway have a green box around them on the map.

Towns that have a plan featured in the Red Guide have a red box around them on the map.

Towns that have hotels that are mentioned in the Red Guide have a little red line under the name of the town on the map.

You can actually have all three markings at the same time. I'm looking at the Michelin Tourist and Motoring Atlas for France. The city name Arles has a narrow red line underneath it and it is surrounded by a heavier green box. There is also a red box around the whole city.

As I interpret the key at the back of the atlas, that would signify that Arles is a green destination on highway signs, with hotel recommendations and a town plan in the Red Guide.

The other wonderful thing about Michelin maps has been mentioned before: scenic roads are highlighted in green. I've driven a lot of them in Provence and rather like their judgement.

Anselm

jeffwill4you

We used MAPPY.COM for every place we were driving to. We started in Amsterdam
and ended our driving in Munich where my brother picked us up and drove us to Hamburg. I got a map from Mappy.com from
Amsterdam to Paris, then from Paris to Hornberg Germany, hornberg to Zurich,
etc, etc, they are free on the internet
to download and very good maps. P.S
Make sure you download them in English!
I forgot to do the map from salzburg to our hotel in Munich in English so we had a little trouble finding the right exits, LOL.

StuDudley

>>>PamSF and Stu ... Michelin maps are colour coded. The cities that have green destination road signs on the highway have a green box around them on the map<<

Yep - that's my understanding too.

>>The other wonderful thing about Michelin maps has been mentioned before: scenic roads are highlighted in green. I've driven a lot of them in Provence and rather like their judgement.<<<

The one fault I have found with some of their "green shaded" roads, is that they must have a love for thick forests. Often, we drive on a green road & all we see is miles & miles of tree trunks. After about the fifth trunk, it gets kinda boring.

Stu Dudley

mikemo

Be aware that on the toll roads, you may be fined for speeding as the entry and exits times are printed out and speed is calculated automatically. Take a rest stop on those.
M

vedette

Hey Stu,
I have found exactly the same thing with Michelin -- they have a real forest fetish.

Everyone, it is my understanding that sensors have been placed in lots of places. They will catch you speeding, because your rental car will have a transponder. I believe that many rental cars actually have gps devices so that the company not only keeps track of where you are but also how fast you are driving. Furthermore, I have heard stories that if your driving is considered really excessive, they can lock you out of it! Can anyone confirm any of this?

AnselmAdorne

"The one fault I have found with some of their "green shaded" roads, is that they must have a love for thick forests. Often, we drive on a green road & all we see is miles & miles of tree trunks. After about the fifth trunk, it gets kinda boring."

True enough, Stu, a number of them do go through wooded areas. I wonder if this is a European fascination with the primeval forest. When people in France ask us where we're from and we tell them Canada, they always say that they'd love to visit ... "Ah, the wilderness. You have so many trees!"

Anselm

kevin_widrow

Mikemo -

Or better yet, just don't speed ...

The number of road deaths in France has dropped by 20% since Notre Cher M. L-ex Ministre imposed heavy fines, got cops out on the road, radars etc. That works out to a lot less dead people. Makes you wonder why they didn't do this years ago.

-kevin

ira

Thanks for very helpful info.

Looking at my Michelin map key (les symbols des plans)

City names with a green box are "localités jalonnant les itinéraires principaux" (places of principle importance?)

Cities with a red box: The red box indicates the limits of the area shown in the Red Guides.

Cities underlined in red are mentioned in the Red Guide.

As for a French obsession with forests, keep in mind that much of France was nearly denuded by profligate timbering and clearing for farms, as well as war.

AnselmAdorne

City names with a green box are "localités jalonnant les itinéraires principaux" (places of principle importance?)

ira, I interpret this more as "cities marked on principal routes," but there are other posters whose French is better than mine.

My copy of the Michelin road atlas has the key in English. It shows the green box and says, "Town name is shown on a green sign on major routes."

Anselm

Robespierre

For anyone who "doesn't mind getting lost occasionally" (such as Ira) I have a question:

Why bother carrying maps at all? Think of the expense you'd eliminate!