Mike and Julie

Our first trip to Europe (well we did Paris in 3 days last year) begins Aug 3/02 when I pick up my girlfriend in Paris. I will be working out of Lille, France for the previous 4 weeks and will be keeping my rental car. The only hard and fast rules we have is Aug 3 in Lille and Aug 22 in Munich. We both want to see Bavaria\Romantic road and we sacrificed Berlin for a run through Switzerland. We are both early 30's would like to get a feel for both Big city and small town Germany,are not paupers but try to spend our money wisely, will be looking for reasonably priced small hotels or B&B's for accommodation. Hopefully booking these in advance since we are travelling in tourist season (with help from you kind people). I would greatly appreciate any comments on the following itinerary that we have planned. Thanks for any help.<BR><BR>Date Area Overnight Dist(km)<BR>3-Aug Paris Lille 230<BR>4-Aug Luxembourg 303<BR>5-Aug Mosell Trier 50<BR>6-Aug Rhine Koblenz 150<BR>7-Aug Rhine St. Goar 50<BR>8-Aug Rhine Wiesbaden 50<BR>9-Aug B. Forest Baden-Baden 240<BR>10-Aug B. Forest Triberg 180<BR>11-Aug Switzerlnd Lucerne 200<BR>12-Aug Switzerlnd Lucerne <BR>13-Aug Switzerlnd Lucerne <BR>14-Aug Austria Bregenz 180<BR>15-Aug Garmisch 230<BR>16-Aug Romntic Rd Garmisch <BR>17-Aug Romntic Rd Ausburg 160<BR>18-Aug Romntic Rd Nordlingen 100<BR>19-Aug Romntic Rd Rothenburg 100<BR>20-Aug Munich 250<BR>21-Aug Munich <BR>22-Aug Munich <BR>23-Aug Fly Home from Munich<BR> <BR>

wes fowler

Mike,<BR>My initial and most critical reaction to your itinerary is too many "one night stands"! There is no need to stay one night in so many differing locations on the Rhine. It's less than 50 miles from Koblenz to Rudesheim or Bingen on the Rhine. That area is the Rhine's most scenic. Pick one spot for three nights and take day trips.<BR><BR>You might want to consider the same idea in planning for the Black Forest and the Romantic Road. In the latter case, you might want to rethink your itinerary since in driving from Garmisch through Augsburg to Rothenburg, you'll be driving away from Munich, a city to which you'll have to return for your trip home. <BR><BR>Drop me an Email if you're interested. I can give you some driving itineraries for the Rhine Valley, the Black Forest, Lake Constance and Upper Bavaria that may be of interest. Can also recommend some reasonably priced accommodations in those areas as well. Would like to know your interests and those of your girl friend.

Mike and Julie

OK Wes thanks great advice. We had talked about avoiding moving a lot as well. We have updated our iteniary below. A couple of specific questions for anyone:<BR>1. Is St. Goar the best place for us on the Rhine? Is 3 days too many?<BR>2. We realize we are back tracking a bit past Munich but not sure best way to do Switzerland and Romantic Road. We would rather go down the Romantic Road toward the alps and are not really set on the Black Forest. We are kind of using it as a way to get to Switzerland (is that bad?)<BR>3. We would both rather stay in Rothenburg but Nordlingen seemed a good location for day trips. Is this a good choice?<BR><BR>Thanks again<BR><BR><BR>Date,Area,Overnight,Dist(km)<BR>3-Aug,Paris ,Lille,230<BR>4-Aug,Luxembourg,303<BR>5-Aug,Mosell ,Trier,50<BR>6-Aug,Rhine ,St. Goar,200<BR>7-Aug,Rhine ,St. Goar <BR>8-Aug,Rhine ,St. Goar <BR>9-Aug,B.Forst.,Baden-Baden 300<BR>10-Aug,B.Forst,Triberg 180<BR>11-Aug,Switzld,Lucerne 200<BR>12-Aug,Switzld,Lucerne <BR>13-Aug,Switzld,Lucerne <BR>14-Aug,Austria,Bregenz 180<BR>15-Aug,Rom. Rd,Garmisch 230<BR>16-Aug,Rom. Rd,Garmisch <BR>17-Aug,Rom. Rd,Nordlingen 260<BR>18-Aug,Rom. Rd,Nordlingen <BR>19-Aug,Rom. Rd,Nordlingen <BR>20-Aug,Bavaria,Munich 250<BR>21-Aug,Bavaria,Munich <BR>22-Aug,Bavaria,Munich <BR>23-Aug Fly Home from Munich<BR>

Sue

Dear Mike and Julie<BR><BR>I'll give you my prejudiced view about itinerary planning. I notice you're using mileages; I'd suggest punching in your stops into a driving planner like viamichelin.com in order to get your route time estimated in hours. For me, time clarifies things in a way distance does not.<BR><BR>Overall, it looks like you want to go from Lille to Switzerland, taking in some highlights of Germany on route, and finishing up in Munich. Since this is a 1 - way itinerary, I'd avoid doubling back where possible. If your heart is set on the Romantic Road, I'd swing east to Rothenburg from the Rhine, proceed south to Ulm, then sweep west to Baden Baden, then down to Switzerland, (skip Triberg since you're not interested in the BF), and back via Garmisch to Munich. This would avoid backtracking out of Munich to the romantic road. Don't worry too much about exact overnight locations until you get your overall route in hand. In other words, plan the rooms of your house first, then worry about the furniture. : - )

wes fowler

Let's kick around an idea or two, Mike.<BR>You're starting your trip in Lille, France which is only an hour's drive from one of Europe's most charming and delightful small cities, Brugge, Belgium. One of Europe's richest cities from the 15th to 17th centuries, that wealth is still much in evidence in Brugge's churches, public buildings and their contents. Charming canal side views, excellent restaurants and over 400 varieties of Belgian beers are some of Brugge's delights. Why not then two nights in Brugge on August 4 and 5. <BR><BR>Move on then to Echternach, Luxembourg in Luxembourg's "Little Switzerland". It's about 215 miles from Brugge and a 3 1/2 hour drive. Plan on two nights in Echternach, the 6th and 7th. From Echternach you can tour Luxembourg city, (22 miles, 45 minutes drive time), Trier, (13 miles, half hour drive time), Cochem on the Mosel (70 scenic miles, an hour and a half drive time). Move on, then, to spend the nights of the 8th and 9th on the Rhine.<BR><BR>More to come.

wes fowler

You might consider staying in Assmannshausen at the following hotel:<BR>www.rhine-hotel-rudesheim.com/ for two or three nights the 8th, 9th and possibly the 10th. It's less than 50 miles from Assmannshausen to Koblenz to the north. Explore one bank of the Rhine one day, the other bank the following day and then move on to the Romantic Road.<BR><BR>It's about 150 miles and a 2 and 1/2 to 3 hour drive to Rothenburg. With a two night stay, the 11th and 12th you could explore Rothenburg and Wurzburg or Rothenburg and Dinkelsbuhl and Nordlingen.<BR><BR>Move on then to Meersburg on the shore of Lake Konstanz for the nights of the 13th and 14th. It's about 150 miles and 2 and 1/2 hours from Rothenburg via Ulm.<BR><BR>From Meersburg, drive west along the shore of the Bodensee to Unteruhldingen. The town has a fascinating museum devoted to the prehistoric dwellers along the shore of the lake. In addition, there’s a recreation of a typical prehistoric village with its houses on stilts. From Unteruhldingen, turn north on a highly scenic road for about 4 miles to the village of Salem which is the home of an early 12th century Cistercian abbey, updated in the Baroque style in the 18th century. Part of the abbey has been rebuilt as a castle and has a truly imposing Kaisersaal (Emperor’s Hall) worth a visit. <BR><BR>Continue on another 4 miles to Heiligenberg with its Renaissance castle that features the woodcarver’s skills in its ceiling and chapel interior. There’s also a stunning display of stained glass. <BR><BR>Now, drive north about 2 ½ miles and turn right towards Wilhelmdorf continuing for about 15 miles just prior to Ravensburg. Follow signs to Weingarten, about 3 miles to the north of Ravensburg and visit the largest of Germany’s Baroque basilicas with its superb ceiling frescoes by Cosmar Asam, one of Germany’s foremost Baroque artisans. <BR><BR>Take Rte B30 south to Ravensburg and the center of the town, the Marienplatz. The town square is surrounded by elegant and beautifully preserved medieval houses and commercial buildings such as the Leatherworkers Guildhouse (Lederhaus), Corn Exchange (Kornhaus) and the Weighing Office (Waaghaus). Look for the Mehlsack, a tower with 240 steps that affords a spectacular view over the Bodensee to the Alpine range beyond. Don’t make the effort of climbing the steps unless it’s a spectacularly clear day! <BR><BR>From Ravensburg drive southwest on Rte B30 about 12 miles to Friedrichshaven. The city has little of historic interest since it was severely damaged in World War II however it has a shoreside promenade that offers some attractive views. <BR><BR>From Friedrichshaven, drive east along the lakeshore for about 20 miles to Lindau, a charming small city situated on an island (accessible by causeway). Maximilianstrasse, the main street, is in the middle of the island and is highly picturesque with its old houses and inns. Drive along the southern shore of the island to the harbor (Hafen) and stop at the Romerschanze, a view point where you can see a good part of the German and Swiss Alpine range including Switzerland’s Santis and Altmann mountains and Germany’s Kanisfluh, the Hoher Freschen and the Drie Schwestern. <BR><BR>You can then return to Meersburg along the northern shore of the Bodensee. <BR><BR>Here's a couple of websites for accommodations in Meersburg. Go first, to www.meersburg.de/baeren/index.htm The site's in German, but you can see photos of this ancient inn and its charming rooms. Prices range from $62.00 to $85.00 a night for a double. <BR>For information in English go to: www.karenbrown.com/germany/gasthofzumbaren.html <BR><BR>More to come. <BR>

wes fowler

Should have mentioned that it's about 125 scenic miles and 2 and 1/2 hours drive time from Echternach to Assmannshausen.<BR><BR>It's a bit over 100 miles and 2 and a 1/2 hours from Meersburg to Luzern. (You'll need a vignette on your car windshield in order to drive on Switzerland's major highways. It's available at border crossings and serves in lieu of highway tolls. It's highly doubtful that a car rented in Lille will have one, but do check with your rental company.)<BR><BR>I'm about to be over run with holiday guests. If you'd like some specific suggestions for Bavaria and Munich as well as some recommendations for accommodations, drop me an Email. I'll get back to you tomorrow.

Dick Yeager

Mike and Julie,<BR><BR>Be smart and take advantage of Wes's expertise. Believe me, he knows of what he speaks.<BR><BR>One thing, to update the rate at the Hotel Baeren, we were there in late May.<BR>We had Herr Gilowsky's best room, #21. It was E90/night including a fine breakfast. Super room, all genuine antique furniture, excellent food by Chef Gilowsky in the restaurant.<BR><BR>Obviously, I highly recommend the Hotel Baeren. We only stayed 2 nights. Next time it will be at least 4! Great location for day trips all around the Bodensee (Lake Constance)area. Not very far, by the way (10 or so kilometers) from the plane collision 2 days ago.<BR><BR>Also a BIG vote for Assmannshausen and Hotel-Cafe-Post. The Hoetger's are great people.<BR><BR>Email me if you would like more.<BR><BR>Dick

BOB THE NAVIGATOR

You just got a treasure of information from Wes based on tons of experience. I hope you apprecciate it and pay heed.

MIke and Julie

WOW!!!!<BR><BR>Thanks to everyone(especially Wes & Dick) for the great info. What a wonderful iteniary we have in the making. You guys have really made our day and our trip. We are truly humbled by your generosity and knowledge.<BR><BR>Hope you don't mind if we stretch that generosity a bit further and take you up on your offer of a return e-mail for some accommodations.<BR><BR>Thanks again. M&J<BR>

Bob

Hotel in Rothenburg: Markusturm. This will give you a great feel for the city as this hotel is pictured on the front of many books on Germany and the city of Rothenburg. Owners are nice and rooms very nice.

Dick Yeager

Mike and Julie,<BR><BR>Glad we could help. Feel free to email me for information that I can provide. I know Wes is more than happy to accomodate as well.<BR><BR>Here are the towns/cities my wife and stayed in this past May/June: Munich, Steingaden, Trier, Assmannshausen and Meersburg in Germany. In addition, we stayed in Innsbruk, Austria, Lucerne, Switzerland and Itterswiller, France in the Alsace area. We were in Europe for three weeks. <BR><BR>From Trier, we took a day trip to Luxembourg City. Very impressed. I have a hotel in mind for our next trip that I would be glad to share.<BR><BR>Dick