Help us plan our itinerary......pleeeeeaaase :)
 

Ok, so my husband and I are planning our first Europe trip for our 33rd anniversary. We are taking a space-a flight into Ramstein, Germany in early June. We want to go to Garmisch, Munich, Paris, Interlaken, and Lucerne, and then back to Ramstein for return flight. We're traveling by train mostly, but can rent a car if necessary. We're pretty baffled as to the most efficient and best route to take. We'll be there about two weeks. Any suggestions are appreciated (including hotels/gasthauses, restaurants, excursions, etc). Thanks!!

What you need are some good travel books for basic research. The Fodor's Germany is very useful; for Paris I prefer the Michelin Green Guide.

Congratulations on planning your first trip to Europe. You can get a lot of help on this forum if you provide information regarding your interests (museums, hiking, etc.) and approximate budget for accommodations. All kinds of travelers respond here, from budget to luxury and everything in between, so with a little more info, you will receive a lot more useful responses. Also, if you know the exact number of nights, you might get some helpful suggestions for your itinerary (how long to stay in each place, based on your interests and preferred pace of travel).

Thank you! We plan on doing all of the typical activities and sightseeing in each location. We haven't decided on the exact number of nights for each location, but at least a couple for each one. We also need recommendations for the order in which to visit each city that would make the most sense based on beginning our trip in Ramstein, Germany and ending at the same location. Our price range for accommodations is mid-range (equivalent to the Hilton/Sheraton/Marriott in the US)....up to $300 per night or so at the most (preferably less).

When I travel, I try to go on paths of least resistance. The distances in your planned itinerary are pretty great and chopped up--requiring a number of train transfers.
I would suggest you save Paris for another trip, as there are few budget airlines flying to/from Southern Germany or Zurich. Your time would be better spent in Southern Germany or Bavaria.
Have you considered substituting Western Tyrol (Austria) for Switzerland? It's so much easier to rent a car when you leave Munich and drive a circle down through Garmisch into Austria, around to Salzburg and back into Munich. You'll find this route much cheaper than Switzerland, and the Austrian Alps are essentially the same mountains.

I agree, keep it simple, and the Austrian lakes and Alps are superb---and close. SWitz. is very expensive.

Google " Salzkammergut" and see what I mean.

Forget flying to Paris.
Germany and France created routes to Paris by combining the German ICE trains and the French TGV.
From Kaiserslautern, near Ramstein, you can be in Paris in 2 & 1/2 hours. There used to be one direct departure a day and two others with connections. Not certain exactly what is currently available, but check it out.

Check out the Ramstein website for lots of travel info.
Not too far from Ramstein is the Alsace region and Strasbourg.

If you are not a member, it is well worth the $35.00 to join Dirk Pepperd's website, www.pepperd.com, for military space-a travel, everything from schedules to special discounts to lodging. This is a great resource, even while traveling to get a quick answer for something.

I like the idea of Austria instead of Switzerland, and thank you for the recommendation. I spoke to Greg (my husband) and he also thinks its a good idea to rent a car once we get to Munich and follow your advice in driving to Garmisch and then to Salzburg. Any more recommendations on where to stay, eat, must sees, etc. for each of those regions?

I appreciate your input, but Paris is a MUST for me. I've never seen it and I can't pass up the opportunity to go there. I don't think it's very far from Ramstein by train, so maybe we should just go there when we first leave Ramstein. Then, maybe we could take the train from Paris to Munich??

I think you can do Paris along with southern Germany and Salzburg, as long as you plan carefully. Paris requires a minimum of 4 nights, IMO, especially for a first-time trip, that leaves you 10 nights to do the rest of the trip.

For Paris, Hotel de Fleurie in Saint Germain area is within your budget and a very nice boutique hotel on a relatively quiet street, but within walking distance of several things.

Can't help you on Southern Germany/Austria, but many others can.

Have a great trip.

Look at St. Gilgen to stay and especially the Garni Schernthaner. Visit Salzburg and Hallstatt from there.

A couple of ideas based on past experience-

If you must do Paris, go there by ICE train when you get off the flight.3-4 nights is probably enough for a first time. If you are retired military, you can probably book reasonably priced hotels thru the Paris USO... At least we did so maaaaany years ago...

Then train from Paris to Munich. I believe there is a night train (City Night Line) with twin compartments which will save you a day of travel. When you get to Munich, spend a couple of days there. Since you mentioned Marriott, there is a Courtyard about 2-3 blocks from the main train station.

Do not rent a car until you leave Munich. The public transportation in Paris and Munich is very good.

The drive from Munich to Salzburg is about 2 hours. Spend 2-3 days there and day trip to Hallstatt, St. Gilgen. and/or to Berchtesgaden. A nice small hotel is the Bergland hotel- elevator, free parking, easy walk to river then into downtown or catch bus 1 block away from hotel. In the range of $150/nite, book early.

When you leave Salzburg you will have 4-5 nights left. You can get to Garmisch by taking the scenic route or the quick route back toward Munich on A8 then on B472 through Bad Tolz and then onto A95 which goes into Garmisch. If the weather is good the Palace at Herren Chiemsee is nice to stop at on the way- it is at the Prein exit.


In Garmisch we stayed at Gastehaus Brigitte last September- Full kitchen, separate bath, separate bedroom, balcony, free parking, free breakfast, linens changed daily, and only 3 short blocks from the main drag in Garmisch. About $80/nite - a real deal! Nice day trips are to Linderhof, Wies Church, Ettal, and the Zugspitz.

If you have a night or 2 left, you might want to drive to Fussen for one night or Rothenburg (Hotel Hornburg is very nice, about $150/night)on your way back to Ramstein. If you have an early flight there is a nice Marriott in Hiedelberg about 1-1.5 hours east of Ramstein. Check where you can return your car when you first arrive (before leaving for Paris)- it might even be on the base.

This sounds like a fun first trip!!!

((B))

Travelforbeer,

Sorry to tell you, but there is no USO in Paris, been gone for many years. Memories. . . .

Sassafrass-

Thanks for the info- sorry to learn about the Paris USO closure. They had some good deals at one time... I didn't know because I have used other resources in Paris for the last 25 years or so...

((B))

I really feel old now, TfB. We used the Paris USO 37 years ago. What changes since then!

Wow! You guys are great! Your tips have really been helpful, and believe me, we will follow your advice. Doing further research about Space-A flights, it doesn't look like we'll get a seat during the summer, so we've rescheduled our trip to depart the end of April. Based on that, I think we'll only be able to do 10 days.

For 10 days you will need to cut some things out. I never saw how long the trip was to be. Glad to hear Paris is a must. For an anniversary it couldn't be better. So if it is 10 days, what will the breakdown be. You can probably fly into Paris and maybe out of Frankfurt (just thinking of it as a major hub)--maybe there are other places too.

We're flying space-a into/out of Ramstein. I'm thinking we'll arrive in Ramstein in the morning and spend night 1 in the Ramstein Inn; go to Paris on day 2 (fast train from Ramstein) and stay in Paris on nights 2 and 3 and during the day on day 4; leave for Munich on the night train on night 4 and arrive in Munich in the morning of day 5 and spend that day and the 5th night in Munich. Then on day 6 rent a car in Munich and drive to Salzburg, and I'm lost after that (lol). I need suggestions for days and nights 6 through 10. We want to see Salzburg and Garmisch during that time, and we need to end up back in Ramstein on day 10.

Hmmm ! Space available---fond memories.

WE first did it in 1961---to Frankurt and home from England and spent 21 day in Europe including 3 nights in Garmisch. We stayed at the Officers hotel fo $3/nite---wow!

All told, we spent $385 for all the trip--it is a long story.

Lynn,

Late April is a perfect time for Paris, even with a few showers!

It is also a much better time for space-a.

Unless you think you will be totally exhausted, don't stay on the base that first day and night. Head straight on to Paris. You can sleep a bit on the train and even if you arrive late and sleep late, you will wake up in Paris. No point wasting most of a precious day when there is nothing to do on base except eat the same fast food you can have at home.

Your trip will give you more memories if you spend more time in fewer places and less time traveling to them.

Using space-a, you may get back to Germany, but may not make the trek to Paris again, so based on lots of personal experience, I highly recommend you give Paris more time and also see Versailles while you are there. Spend at a minimum 4 nights there. Five would be better, but you could do the 5th night as the night train to Munich. Whatever it takes to give you four days, one of those for Versailles. Believe me, even a week in Paris would not be too much!

Plan your last night to stay on or near the base and be ready for the flight home. Nothing is set in stone. Times are fluid. The last time we were there, Ramstein did roll call nearly an hour earlier than the posted time, so check it and go a little early anyway.

Just curious. Are you active or retired? What is your departing place? Have you done space-a before? Did you check out Dirk's site? We used space-a a lot for a few years. Then it got nearly impossible to get seats, so we haven't in several years. We may try again this Spring, though not to Ramstein.

We're traveling by train mostly, but can rent a car if necessary. We're pretty baffled as to the most efficient and best route to take>

Not necessary to rent a car for the places you mention - trains go everywhere and once in a city cars are pretty useless - parking can be expensive and hard to find - many hotels do not offer parking or charge a lot for it, etc.

If you want to meander thru the German countryside more than hit cities - wonderful cities and places like the Interlaken area where many places in the Jungfrau Region are simply off-limits to cars - anyways for lots of great info on trains in those countries I refer you to these IMO fantastic sites: www.ricksteves.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.seat61.com and for Switzerland www.swisstravelsystem.com - a Swiss Pass can be surprisingly cost-effective even if there only a few days.

So for your itinerary cars are not needed and would be far slower between cities than trains going well over 100 mph many places.

There are a couple of things you could do.

#1. Paris is a great place to spend 10 days. Take the train and enjoy.

#2. If you want to get a taste of Germany and France. You'll start out close enough to the Black Forest for a lovely drive. Strasbourg France is right along the way and you could even get down to Zurich. (Keep in mind you will need a vignette for driving in Switzerland and Austria too.)

If you use google maps, you'll see that a drive from Ramstein, Strasbourg, Zurich, Munich and Salzburg is about 15 hours. Cut Zurich or Strasbourg out of there and you'll have a nicely paced vacation.

Enjoy.

cars are great for exploring places in between big cities but in a place like Paris ditch the car - a complete hassle otherwise - leave the car outside the city if driving - perhaps staying at a chain motel on the edge of Paris with a metro or RER station nearby.

Two nights in Paris is really not enough. You need at least one more.

With only 10 nights, I would scratch Salzburg and just stick to Paris, Munich, Garmisch, and either one or two nights in Ramstein (definitely need the one night there before you leave). That is more than enough for 10 days and would be a much more enjoyable pace without so many changes, which all require transportation time and checking in and out of hotels.

You are now thinking:
1. Arrive in Ramstein in the morning. Sleep in Ramstein .
2. Train to Paris
3. Paris
4. Tour Paris during day, Night Train to Munich
5. Arrive Munich A.M. Sleep in Munich
6. Drive to Salzburg
7,8,9. Salzburg or Garmisch
10. Drive to Ramstein. Sleep in Ramstein.
11. Fly home

I would recommend:
Days 1-5(for you, I am not a night train person)
1. Arrive in Ramstein. Train to Paris .
2. Paris
3. Paris
4. Tour Paris during day, Night Train to Munich
5. Arrive Munich A.M. Sleep in Munich.

Days 6-11, Option 1(Salzburg is in wrong direction, but if you must)
6. Drive to Salzburg. Tour and sleep Salzburg
7. Salzburg. Sound of Music tour, Hallein Salt mine
8. Drive to Garmisch. Afternoon choose from Mittenwald, Oberammergau, Linderhof, Ettal, Zugspitze
9. Garmisch. Kings castles Neuschwanstein and Hohenschwangau, Wieskirche or from sites of day 8.
10. Drive to Ramstein.
11. Fly home

Days 6-11, Option 2 (you liked Switzerland, still a little far, may want to be near Swiss-German border-Bodensee )
6. Drive to Garmisch. Afternoon choose from Mittenwald, Oberammergau, Linderhof, Ettal, Zugspitze
7. Garmisch. Kings castles Neuschwanstein and Hohenschwangau, Wieskirche or from sites of day 6.
8. Drive to Lucern or Grindelwald
9. Lucern or Grindelwald
10. Drive to Ramstein.
11. Fly home

Days 6-11, Option 3 (Or an Option 4 of all Germany)
6. Drive to Garmisch. Afternoon choose from Mittenwald, Oberammergau, Linderhof, Ettal, Zugspitze
7. Garmisch. Kings castles Neuschwanstein and Hohenschwangau, Wieskirche or from sites of day 6.
8. Drive to Alsace- Colmar or Riquewihr. Tour Kayserberg castle.
9. Colmar or Riquewihr. Tour wine villages
10. Drive to Ramstein.
11. Fly home

Alsace, in the Franco-German Borders is one of the most beautiful places in France, it has a really great German Influence, it's actually a mix of Germany and France, really interesting and beautiful place. Visit Strasbourg, Riquewihr and Colmar, they are all stunning, been there believe me.

Down to ten days, unfortunately not enough time for the original ideas for your trip. You said Paris is a must, and IMHO, that is a great start.

Pick one other city in Germany and/or one area or base for countryside exploration in Germany and you have the makings of a wonderful trip. Consider Freiburg. It is picture perfect. Garmisch area is also lovely.

Whether you actually have 8, 9, 10 or 11 days depends on return flight possibilities. Keep that in mind for planning the last couple of days, what you can do if there is time and what you will leave off if time runs short.
One thing I can say with assurance. This will be a fantastic experience for you!

PetrosB3 is absolutely right, and that is logistically a great trip from Ramstein.

You could train to Paris, train to Strasbourg from Paris, rent a car and tour the Alsace. Check where to rent the car so you could return it in Ramstein without a penalty.

Two weeks was not enough for your original itinerary, 10 days most definitely is not! You need to cut our several places from your original idea to make this trip more do-able... and fun.

If you go to Paris, then go to Paris. You really will not have 10 full days in Paris because you will be getting there and then getting back to Ramstein.

You do have the perfect amount of time for a 1st trip to Paris for your anniversary.

Seriously, either go to Paris or stay in and around Germany. Don't rush through Germany, it's best savored slowly.

Thank you for your recommendations. You've given us A LOT to think about. Our planning is continuing to evolve based on everyone's input. I'll post what the final verdict is!

Not to rain on your parade but have you factored in the possibility of not getting on the Space A flight at Ramstein on day 11? Nothing is assured when flying Space A.

We're doing all of our homework in regards to Space-A, however we know nothing is guaranteed.

best not to book discounted tickets for days right after arrival - train tickets if the plane is iffy as those tickets are non-changeable from the specific train you book them on and are non-refundable (talking about German tickets - discounts may be available if tickets remain in that class up until the day before or so if you have online access in Ramstein however.

Nice to see that u changed trip to late april. Upon arriving at Ramstein, I would register for ur trip back to states. Its registration date, not first at roll call that puts u in a seat. ex-U arrive on 27 April and u register for flight back. U go back to Ramstein to catch a flight with a roll call of 1300 on 9 may. Couple A arrives at 1230 and states they want that flight. But they just register on May 1. Ur husband and u arrive at 1330. Even though u showed up later u get 1st preference for seat within ur category. Upstairs is a uso and they have a bank of computers that are free to use. Across from the terminal is the Ramstein Inn and the base exchange. Depending on ur husband rank, u may or may not be staying there. They have billets located thru out the base. We ended up in bld 304 about 1 1/2 mile from the terminal. They will shuttle you to ur billet once and bring u back. But they have post shuttle. Check times. Let u know now, you cannot use the px except for what u can drink or eat. You can buy cold cuts frozen pizza, water soda, etc but no socks or toothpaste. They have a chilli, so we ate and got wings to take back to our billet. Also, they will let u store ur luggage behind the check-in counter til ur ready to leave, if ur not staying at the main inn. Communications. how will u charge ur cell phone or tablet. They have adaptors but don't know if they sell them here in states. I agree with Sassafras. depending when u arrive at Ramstein, I would go directly to Paris. Oh almost forgot. inside Ramstein inn is a tour/travel agency, I believe they can book you a hotel in paris, if u don't have one booked by the time u arrive. Also being retired u can also use the tours they have.

Jersey61,
Things should work that way, but if you are not actually signed in at the beginning of roll call, they can put you at the bottom of the list. I know because we were coming from Frankfurt on the USO bus and roll call was 2:00. We actually called while we were on the bus to verify. However, so many people were there, they started roll call a half hour earlier than posted and they took everyone who was signed in by the beginning of roll call first. Sign-up dates counted, but only if you were there at the beginning of roll call. After calling all of those, they went back to calling by date. We had over 50 days on sign-up and were lucky to get seats. So, my advice: not fun, but get there a bit early, regardless of your sign-up date.

Also, the OP does not have to wait until they land in Germany to sign up for the trip home. They can do that from the States. I never saw if they are active or retired. If they are retired, they should sign up for the trip home about 10 days after signing up for the trip to Europe. If they are active, they can sign up for both as soon as their leave starts.

Sassafras, lucky you. Wished I could have used the USO bus, but found out they no longer provide service. Ended up using Alex limo from Frankfurt to Ramstein. Few extra Euros than train and less stress. Did it for the wife, I wanted to take the trains. oh, I agree with you as far as getting to any place early. When we left Paris to come back to Germany, we got to the station at 12:20 for a 1400 departure. After my wife haggled over souviners for the kids back home, it was 1300. Well, I never really looked at my ticket carefully. I thought est was some kind of code and that gare d'nord was the main and only station for international countries. Should have seen the terror in my eyes when I was told we had to be at gare d'est. Back downstairs to the metro line, of course at a main train station the line for the ticket machine is like 50 people long. At 3 to 5 min per person, do the math. Went right to the front and danced and begged to get in. After being allowed, found out the machine only took coins...no paper. Had coins till the wife made the souviners purchase. finally a woman gave us change--Oh, when we first arrived the day before, had problem trying to obtain a day pass for metro, so in frustration attempted to take a taxi to the hotel. Got about 2 blocks from the station, driver attempted to make a U-turn and ran right into a couple on a motorcycle. hub caps are rolling down the street, driver being attended to for nerves and shock. Couple being attended to..luckly no serious injury. we'll still sitting in taxi and meter is still going. WE just got out, walked back to train station and pointed to our hotel on map and got metro ticket. But we cant wait to go back.

Here is another who has done space a to Ramstein many times. Ramstein has always been one of the more difficult places from which to get back to the US - if you are category 6 (retired) it is tougher skill. That is because it is a very popular departure terminal, not to mention that there will be many leaving on environmental/moral leave who have priority over you. Changing to April will help a lot though. My last time leaving from Ramstein, and I was active then, I gave up after 3 days of trying and bought a ticket home from the travel office at a good discount because my leave was running out. I had a pretty good sign up date, but with cancelled flights and more and more people showing up I was out of luck. Similarly, you may or may not luck out with billiting on base, but if not the USO office upstairs can refer you a local place that would not be too expensive. We had to do that a few times and it was fine.

If you go to Paris, then the train from Kaiserslautern is your best bet. Go the same day you arrive in Ramstein rather than spend the night there - you can nap on the train. If you do stay your first day in Ramstein, try to get into town for awhile rather than hang around on base - it is a pleasant little place.

if you plan to visit the most beautiful castle in the world Neuschwanstein

here is a list of things to do during your stay

first of all book the hotel you like depending to your budget
here my top list ( after experience of 3 years in Hohenschwangau)

http://www.new-swan-stone.eu/2014/03...in-castle.html

---------- Things to do in Hohenschwangau ----------

** For One Day Stay

Neuschwanstein Castle
Hohenschwangau Castle
Bavarian Museum
Marien Bridge
Pöllat Gorge Waterfall
Alpsee Lake


** Two Days Stay


Tegelberg Cable Car , Toboggan (2Km from Hohenschwangau village )
Füssen Town (5Km from Hohenschwangau village )

Kristalltherme Schwangau (2Km from Hohenschwangau village )
Linderhof Castle (1hour drive from Hohenschwangau village )

Thank you very much!! I would really appreciate some more recommendations for hotels in Paris.

If you start a thread saying Looking for Parisian Hotel Advice and what you are looking for in terms of the type of a hotel you will get many answers - buried in this thread however not much.

Repost that question on a new thread.