Help selecting wine during meals
 

Bonjour!
We leave for Paris in 4 days and it occurred to me that it might be useful to learn of others experiences ordering wine in restaurants. While we appreciate good wine...we don't have that expensive of tastes and are usually quite happy with an average selection. What have others ordered....the house wine? the cheapest on the menu? Any ideas? Appreciate your input...
kattom

If you are in 'inexpensive' (whatever that means to you!) restaurant, you could settle for the house wine, usually bought by the carafe or pichet. If you are in an upmarket restaurant, be guided by the sommelier: s/he is trained to offer such advice, and will match wine to your food, tastes and budget.

Choose the meal then ask the wine waiter. There really is nothing else for it

I rely on the wine stewart for advice. Ask him (or her) to select the best wine to complement your food selection.

State a definite price range. You don't want to be surprised.

The majority of people in the trade want to show off!
It's a matter of pride and professionalism.

Hi K,

The house wine is usually better than the cheapest bottle.

>usually quite happy with an average selection.

Get un pichet or demi (1/2 carafe) of the vin de la maison.

I have some resto suggestions in my trip report:
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=35136218

Enjoy your visit.

((I))

Thanks for everyone's thought!

Is it reasonable to expect a decent bottle/carafe of wine at a mid-price restaurant for around 15-20 euros?

And thanks IRA to the links to your recent review. I had missed that post even though I do read just about all of them!

--kattom

<i>Is it reasonable to expect a decent bottle/carafe of wine at a mid-price restaurant for around 15-20 euros?</i>

You will get some decent (even some good) wines at that price point, but you will also get some pretty wretched stuff. I find the quality of the cheaper Euro wines to be all over the map.

I am always satisfied with the house white wine, served in carafe or pitcher (that you order by size).

I would order the house wine rather than something in that price range. Remember the restaurants' mark-up on wine - that would be something you would buy for 7 or 8 euros in a store.

The house wine will usually be just fine but sometimes it is awful. Even in cafes waiters will be happy to offer advice. It has been my experience that the French are more than happy to share their knowledge of wine. Enology must be taught starting in Kindergarten because any French man or woman I've ever met knows their wine. Also never have I had a waiter or sommenlier in any french cafe or restaurant steer me toward a bottle because it is more expensive. They truly want to recommend the best wine to go with your food.

I don't think French waiters are saints, and that they certainly may suggest wines that are more expensive. Any menu will have enough wines that there wouldn't be any reason not to suggest ones at the upper price range, as one of them will be suitable, and should be better than the cheaper ones. So if you just ask a waiter what should I order, I would think they will name the better, more expensive wines.

I wouldn't order the cheapest wine on a menu if I wanted average quality, I order one in the middle. I know enough about wine to know what I want, though, so wouldn't ever just have no idea what I wanted to order. I may not know exact labels or vineyards listed, though, but I've never once had a waiter/sommelier in France tell me some wine listed on the carte wasn't any good that I was considering and I should order something cheaper.

I sometimes order the nameless cheapest wine that comes in a carafe, but not usually with dinner, but perhaps if I'm just relaxing in a cafe for a while in later afternoon, or if I'm just in a mood that I don't care that much or don't want much wine. It would also depend what kind of restaurant/cafe I was in as to whether I'd do that. I wouldn't ever do it in a cheap Italian restaurant in Paris, as in my experience, they have really bad &quot;house wine&quot;. I don't eat in Italian restaurants that much in Paris, though.

We order carafes often and usually. And it is great for people watching in a cafe in the afternoon also.
Look at the wine list and take a stab in your price point. Chardonnays in France are white burgundies--and unoaked usually. You can have the chance of having some delicious wines.
Our fave white is Sancerre--dry and crisp. Expensive here in the States. Good with seafood.
Aligote is another white that is from burgundy--lush and rich. Pretty rare here in the States.

<i>Chardonnays in France are white burgundies--and unoaked usually.</i>

This is not always true. New oak is still widely used in most of the better terroirs and is nearly universal among the Grand Crus. Some of the lesser regions tend to use less, and there has been something of a trend toward stainless steel tanks in the M&acirc;connais.

Certainly, there are some unoaked Burgundies, but I would caution against assuming too much universality. Indeed, Burgundy is probably as notable for the variety of aging methods as anything else. It isn't California, where most Chardonnays see a lot of oak, but it isn't New Zealand either.

No, for god's sake don't drink the Aligote unless you are going to mix it with creme de casis. It's normally acidic as a battery

If you go to one of the Flo brasseries, like Balzar, the house wine, sold by the bottle, will be superb and reasonably priced due to their purcasing power. Even many of the small bistros contract with small vineyards for really outstanding wines at great prices. They bypass the multi-tiered distribution systems that plague us here. When in doubt, just order a Cote du Rhone; red or white. If you see a brand name you recognize from the US, avoid it; it will be grossly overpriced.

If you stay out of tourist trap restaurants (e.g. in Bacteria Alley on the Left Bank and the cheaper chain restaurants), you should be able to rely on the house wine being decent (if not memorable), and reasonably priced.

May I recommend my two favourite restaurants from my two-year sojourn in Paris? The first is called Pomze. It's on the Right Bank, in the 8th, relatively near the Grands Magasins. If you like apples, you'll love Pomze. Every, inventive (but never gimmicky) dish on its menu includes apple in some way or another. They have a great prix fixe at about 35 euros for 3 courses. They also offer a &quot;flight&quot; of three small glasses of cider matched to your courses. The waiter comes by and explains exactly where the apples come from and why the cider has been matched to your dish. The restaurant is in a pretty room, in a Haussmanian apartment building. Very romantic in a fresh, modern way. Very good service.

My second recommendation is for a wine bar and restaurant called Le Vin Dans Les Voiles. It's outside the usual neighbourhoods tourists visit - in the lower end of the 16th near Blvd Exelman, but well worth the visit. The proprietor is charming and he has a great, small selection of wines and dishes. Let him choose wines by the glass for you to match your meal. You won't be disappointed and, again, the prices are reasonable.

You can find both restaurants by googling their names. Reservations are a good idea, although you won't need to make one until you get there.

At other restaurants, if you're choosing wine yourselves, I find that white Sancerre is a reliable choice that will work well with most dishes that you'd pair with a white wine. It's a sauvignon blanc, but much less grassy than the sauvignons you often get from other countries.

Then you need to get a better aligote. And you might just say, well, I don't like it. Get a life. It IS all about taste and opinion. It is a lovely wine, TO ME, and a lot of others,

I have only been to europe five trips so far, spending time in Switzerland, Paris, Venice, Amsterdam. But not once have I been served anything &quot;awful&quot; as a house white wine ordered by glass, pitcher, or carafe.

kattom said in the OP they are &quot;usually quite happy with an average selection&quot; so I think this is fair advice.

Wow! Thank you all for your ideas. All this talk about wine is making me thirsty. I am so looking forward to trying all your suggestions. I hope to file a report when we return.

A bientot!

kattom

Gretchen, :-), it is only wine. But &quot;a lot&quot; if there were a lot of people liking it it would be made in large quantities. It aint so it aint.

On the other hand if you are going to try it then do it in France but get the waiter to help you chose the food that goes with it rather than the other way around. I suspect something fatty or Pate might be right. A whole bottle still feels like a mistake

Still I would be careful if I had any wobbly teeth :-)

bilboburgler:

Your reasoning (if a lot of people like something, then there must be a lot of it) seems flawed. Demand and supply don't always work that way. There can be constraints on supply (either natural or artifical). There are, for example, a lot of people who like wild Sockeye salmon, but there's very little of it around.

The aligote grape seems to suit some climates (eg colder climates) more than others (eg Washington State), which might be one reason why we don't see a lot of it.

Nah, its rubbish and its cheap

bilboburgler:

Please try a Bouzeron-Aligot&eacute;. You will change your opinion!

bilboburgler: I would posit that you simply haven't had a decent Aligote. And your dictum that it's only made in small quantities because it's not popular is ridiculous. Truffles aren't rampant on the marketplace, either.

I guess bilboburger doesn't realized that the aligote grape comprises only 2% of the grapes grown--a reason for its scarcity. Another wine we like in France, and hard to find here because of short supply is Bergerac, a red from near Bordeaux. So many wines so little time.
As to whether to try it--it's only a bottle of wine. I don't like every zin or merlot or whatever I drink. But I certainly would not tell someone never to try one. Garbage.

The 2% refers to Burgundy grapes, by the way, lest that get a rise.

In bilboburger's defense, Aligote IS a marginal grape. Nobody is converting large tracts of prime Chardonnay territory to cultivate it. It is grown on marginal plots and areas too cold for Chardonnay.

And it is acidic and not to everyone's (or even many people's) liking. It has its uses, such as Cremant, and it is pretty popular in Eastern European vineyards, but I don't think anybody is beating down the door to buy the stuff.

Even if bilboburger went a bit overboard in his condemnation, let's not go equally overboard in our praise for the stuff. It is what it is, a niche table wine that rarely rises to the level of the better whites.

Thanks guys I will try a Bouzeron-Aligot&eacute;. But when I do.... :-)