luademochila

Hi,

First of all, please, don't mind my bad english, I'm still learning it.

I'm asking your help on a 20-29 days trip to Austria and Germany with my wife, probably using public transport (maybe we are going to rent a car). We intend to travel by august or september 2013.

I have read many guides and forums about these countries and now I'm very confused about my itinerary. We want to see scenic places and museums are not our priority on this trip (we are saturated by art after seeing Italy and France). We like to walk and explore, learning about local culture and history.

Another priority is to try to make a trip filled with mixed experiences. In other words, we are afraid end seeing pretty much the same things. For example, Salzkammegut area looking like the same as Berchtesgaden or getting bored after seeing all of Ludwig's castles. Every place must look unique and special.

Our first itinerary is as follows - always trying to travel by night:

day 1 - Frankfurt - Wurzburg
day 2 - Wurzburg - Rothenburg
day 3 - Rothenburg
day 4 - Rothenburg - Dinkelsbühl - Nuremberg
day 5 - Nuremberg - Regensburg
day 6 - Regensburg - Landshut
day 7 - Landshut - Garmisch
day 8 - Garmisch - Neuchwanstein - Hohenschwangau [daytrip]
day 9 - Garmisch - Partenkirchen - Zugspitze
day 10 - Garmisch - Mittenwald [daytrip]
day 11 - Garmisch - Oberammergau - Linderhof [daytrip]
day 12 - Garmisch - Munich
day 13 - Munich - Berchtesgaden
day 14 - Berchtesgaden (or Ramsau) - (Herrenchiemsee) [daytrip]
day 15 – Berchtesgaden - Koenigssee [daytrip]
day 16 – Berchtesgaden - Salzburg [daytrip]
day 17 - Berchtesgaden - Werfen ice caves [daytrip] - St Gilgen
day 18 - St Gilgen
day 19 - St Gilgen – Hallstatt [daytrip] - Cesky Krumlov
day 20 – Cesky Krumlov
day 21 – Cesky Krumlov – Prague
day 22 – Prague
day 23 – Prague
day 24 – Prague – Dresden
day 25 – Dresden – Berlin
day 26 – Berlin - Potsdam [daytrip]
day 27 – Berlin
day 28 – Berlin
day 29 – Berlin
day 30 – Berlin

I'm considering also Mosel and Rhine valley and Lake Constance region. Feel free to cut, add or exchange some part or the whole itinerary.

Please, help !

Ingo

I would stay only one night in Rothenburg and add the night to either Nürnberg or Regensburg.

Quite many small towns and midsize cities in the first part of your trip. Maybe I would skip one of those entirely. The IMO most charming of all of them in the region - Bamberg - is not in your schedule.

The castles/palaces in southern Bavaria are in fact quite different. It is ok to see all of them. However, I'd try to see a monastery or two also. Ettal or Benediktbeuern come to my mind and would fit in well.

How do you want to do the day trip from St. Gilgen to Hallstatt and go to Cesky Krumlov the same day? Quite hectic IMO.

If you want to see some very different scenery then spend two nights in the National Park Saxon Switzerland between Prague and Dresden. Bad Schandau is a good place to stay e.g.

luademochila

Ingo,

Thank you for your prompt reply. The 2 nights in Rothenburg are a matter of logistics. We will arrive there by night. The only way we found to go to Dinkelsbuhl is by bus (Romantic Road coach), which happens to be at 12:55 PM. So, this wouldn't leave enough time for us to enjoy the city. We choose to spend another night there and go to Dinkelsbuhl the next day.

I would like to add another night to Nuremberg because there seems to be a mid city. Not sure about Regensburg, though. Is it so worthwhile ?

Bamberg held my attention when reading my travel guide. However, I'm not sure how to fit it on the itinerary, it seems to be out of our way. How would you do that ?

We intend to see Ettal Monastery on the way to Linderhof.

You are right, it may be rushed to go to Hallstatt and travel all the way to Cesky Krumlov the same day. I'll think about it.

I've also heard about that National Park, but was not sure if it's worth spending some nights there. I'll think about it.

Thank you. I'd appreciate more inputs on the matter.

Russ

day 1 - Frankfurt - Wurzburg
day 2 - Wurzburg - Rothenburg
day 3 - Rothenburg
day 4 - Rothenburg - Dinkelsbühl - Nuremberg


I would say that Würzburg, Rothenburg and Nuremberg are all pretty different from one another and are good choices. W'burg and N'berg are larger cities with lots of traffic and bustle in addition to some interesting sites. Rothenburg is smaller and well preserved - and truly overrun by tourism.

Dinkelsbühl is nice as well but not especially easy to reach by public transport.

There are several other places you might visit in addition to or instead of one or more that you mention, places that are equally or more attractive and interesting. Bamberg is also larger but feels smaller when you're in its amazing old town area. There area also some fine towns with wineries and old-world atmosphere just outside Würzburg along the Main River. Sommerhausen, Marktbreit and Ochsenfurt could be done as a daytrip from Würzburg (Bamberg could too.) All of these are well connected to Würzburg by frequent train service:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLUgpoQIFHI

The Franconnian open-air historical museum in Bad Windsheim would probably not bore you if you want to learn about local culture and history; Bad Windsheim is easy to reach by train too and you can walk to the museum site from the station:

http://www.stripes.com/military-life...useum-1.102354

Russ

About staying in Franconia: I would prefer to stay in one place and do daytrips to the others. Würzburg or Nuremberg would be good base towns for seeing the others. You could also visit Regensburg on a daytrip from Nuremberg. Many visitors to Rothenburg say you MUST stay overnight there to take the "Nightwatchman's Tour" and to achieve some peace and quiet from the crowds that descend on Rothenburg during the day, so maybe you spend one night there and the rest in one other place - that will minimize the packing, unpacking, checking in routine.

Daytrips in this area are particularly easy and cheap. The Bayern Ticket (26€/day for two) OR the VRM Tagesticket Plus (16.20€/day for two), depending on which cities you stay in and which ones you travel to, will get you around and will allow you to use inner-city bus, tram and subways as well.

http://www.vgn.de/tickets/?Edition=en&p=1
http://www.munich-touristinfo.de/Bavaria-Ticket.htm (page still has old price structure.)

Ingo

Another thought: If you've spent two nights in Rothenburg you might want to skip Dinkelsbühl as it is not *that* much different and you'll have a couple of hours there only before rushing to Nürnberg.

I personally find Regensburg more beautiful than Nürnberg. The latter was severely damaged in WWII while Regensburg was not - much more old architecture is preserved in Regensburg and the old town is more authentic and charming to me.

luademochila

Hey, Russ, great tips, thank you. I'll take a look at that cities. I didn't know about that VRM ticket, that's good to know.

I don't like changing bases too often either, but Regensburg is, coming from Nuremberg, on the way to Munich, so that's a stopover.

Ingo,

I'm inclined to cut off Dinkelsbühl from my itinerary, probably landshut too. Bamberg seems a really good place to go, but I'm still not sure if it's worth all the effort to go there - time and money in an already tight schedule. Maybe if I cut off more cities.

I've seen some pictures from both Regensburg and Nürnberg, I'm sure the former is prettier than the latter. But I guess each one serves different purposes. Regensburg means to me scenery and leisure. Nürnberg, history and culture. At least that's what it seems.

Any suggestions about the lakes part ?

Ingo

No idea how to include Bamberg into this itinerary - it would mean to scratch other places from the list or shorten the stays somewhere.

Yes, dropping Landshut is probably a good idea. Not that it's not worth a visit, but you already have a number of Bavarian towns on your list

Nürnberg has more history and culture than Regensburg? Except for the Nazi-era history it is quite the opposite. That's probably what draws you to Nürnberg, right? I didn't think of that, not something that would be on my list, sorry, but it is your trip

luademochila

I didn't mean one has more history and culture than other. Just said that I have different goals when visiting Nurenberg and Regensburg. I believe every city has it's own history and culture, but we can't deny the Nazi-era is a very important part of the world's history. Anyway, I appreciate if you could give me any information about the highlights of Regensburg on this matter, maybe I'll change my mind and choose to stay more time at Regensburg.

Ingo

By no means I want to steer you into "my" direction (Regensburg). If it is the architecture/history of the Nazi era that you want to experience then go to Nürnberg and not Regensburg. I personally find that a visit in a former concentration camp would be a more shocking and lasting experience than anything in Nürnberg regarding the Nazi era, though.

Regensburg still has a medieval old town with a rich ensemble of churches, towers, patrician houses that has no competition north of the Alps. The old town hall was seat of the "everlasting (German) Imperial parliament" since 1633, you can tour it. You can also see the rooms where Johannes Kepler died in 1630. Another highlight is the bridge across the Donau river from the 12th century, right next is the historic Wurstküche (Bratwurst vendor, almost as old and yummy/famous). There are Roman ruins also - Porta Praetoria and city walls. The (Gothic) cathedral is outstanding, there are many more churches in all styles - from Romanesque to Baroque/Rococo ... Not to miss is also the palace and church of the Thurn & Taxis family with a crypt from the year 740 e.g. and magnificent interior from Baroque and later (guided tours). Very nice are the boat trips on the Donau river to Walhalla or Kelheim. Just a few ideas ...

luademochila

Don't worry, I understand. But I'm interested in all of it, that's why I intend to visit both cities. I'm not sure if we are going to like a visit to concentration camps, I'm thinking about it.

Thank you for your tips about Regensburg. Do you live there ? Any recomendations about hotels and restaurants in the area ?

november_moon

I agree about trying to stay in one town in Franconia and explore the others as day trips. We have done that twice and really enjoyed it. Nuremburg makes a good base because it is a train hub and also is large enough to have a decent amount going on at night. I am not sure about Rothenburg and Wurzburg as I have not spent the night in either.

Bamberg is indeed a neat city. It is my favorite of the ones I have visited (Nuremburg, Bamberg, Rothenburg, and Wurzburg). And Bamberg is ok at night - not busy, but you can find bars open late. The towns are all neat though.

I agree about skipping Dinklesbuhl. I liked that town too, but with a tight schedule, I think you can reasonably skip it.

I would spend more time in Munich though. Your one night is not nearly enough. Spend at least 2 nights, preferably 3 if you can manage it. Maybe steal one from Garmish?

I wasn't very impressed with Oberamergau - it is on a lot of people's itinerary, but I just didn't think it was a must-see. It is an ok town, perfectly nice, but just didn't have that special something that so many of the other Bavarian towns have. It is famous for the Passion Play, of course, but without that, I don't think it would really be on people's radar.

luademochila

I also like staying in one town doing daytrips, but in this situation it would be a waste of time. Look at how linear is our itinerary:

http://migre.me/9tCI1

You're right about Munich, I have changed my itinerary again, as follows:

day 1 - Frankfurt - Wurzburg
day 2 - Wurzburg - Rothenburg
day 3 - Rothenburg - Nuremberg
day 4 - Nuremberg - Regensburg
day 5 - Regensburg - Garmisch
day 6 - Garmisch - Neuchwanstein - Hohenschwangau [daytrip]
day 7 - Garmisch - Partenkirchen - Zugspitze
day 8 - Garmisch - Oberammergau - Linderhof [daytrip]
day 9 - Garmisch - Mittenwald [short daytrip]- Munich
day 10 - Munich
day 11 - Munich - Berchtesgaden
day 12 - Berchtesgaden (or Ramsau) - (Herrenchiemsee) [daytrip]
day 13 – Berchtesgaden - Koenigssee [daytrip]
day 14 - Berchtesgaden - Werfen ice caves [daytrip]
day 15 – Berchtesgaden - Salzburg
day 16 - Salzburg - Wolfgangsee (St Gilgen)
day 17 - St Gilgen - Wolfgangsee area
day 18 - St Gilgen – Hallstatt [daytrip] - Cesky Krumlov
day 19 – Cesky Krumlov
day 20 – Cesky Krumlov – Prague
day 21 – Prague
day 22 – Prague
day 23 – Prague – Dresden
day 24 – Dresden – Berlin
day 25 – Berlin - Potsdam [daytrip]
day 26 – Berlin
day 27 – Berlin
day 28 – Berlin
day 29 – Berlin

Maybe I'll add a night to Regensburg, after reading what Ingo said about it.

Oberamergau didn't hold my breath either, at least when doing my research. But it's on the way to Linderhof and Ettal, so I think it's worth the stop.

eluckhardt

I am no expert, but I think your Days 1-5 are too hectic in terms of changing hotels each night. Not sure if jet lag is a factor you have to deal with, but even the more so, if that is the case. I say you cut a town or two, find a "central" place or two to base yourself, and if you have the time/energy, than take longer daytrips if necessary.

You also mentioned that you don't want to get burnt out by visiting too many similar sights. Of course, most of these towns are all different, but still after all is said and done, they are still your typical German village, if you know what I mean. I've not been to Bamberg or Wurzburg, so I can't comment on which towns deserve the most time, but I have enjoyed Rothenburg ob der Tauber, Regensburg, and Nuremburg (my preference by order listed).

Ingo

I live in the Dresden/Saxon Switzerland region, not in Regensburg. As for hotels/restaurants in Regensburg - sorry, it's been a while that I was in Regensburg. I recall I had a great and quite inexpensive meal with excellent beer right next to the Dom (cathedral) in the courtyard of www.hotel-bischofshof.de They also have rooms, but more on the pricey side.

Re: Itinerary - I would skip the half day in Mittenwald, after seeing Oberammergau and Garmisch-Partenkirchen it is not a *must* anymore. It's a detour on the way to Munich anyway.

I noticed you plan four one-nighters in the first days. Ugh.

Why the one night in Salzburg? It is a quick day trip from Berchtesgaden. I would stay one more night in B. Saves you packing/unpacking and check in/out. Besides, you must adjust your itinerary according to weather anyway - for Herrenchiemsee, Königssee, Werfen ice caves you better have nice weather (even on the way to the ice caves you want to see some beautiful mountains, right?), so if there is a cloudy/rainy day you can hop over to Salzburg on short notice.

I.

luademochila

Eluckhardt and Ingo,

After so many advices about avoiding changing hotels so often, I think I'll change plans. You're right, it sucks. Nuremberg seems to be a good base, as some have said. Any other thoughts ? Maybe Iphofen ? We think it may be a good experience to walk by a small northern bavarian town (different feeling from the southern ones, I guess) by night. Or even Bamberg, what do you think ?

I'm not sure about skipping Mittenwald, because it has been told by many as a very nice city to visit. I would rather skip Oberammergau if it was not on the way to Linderhof and Ettal Abbey. I'll do more research about it, thanks for the tip.

One night in Salzburg because it's a necessary stop from Berchtesgaden to Wolfgangsee area, so it's a stopover. But, again, I may rethink about it. The possibility of bad weather is really an issue.

luademochila

avoid changing hotels*