Help! Nottingham! Urghh!
 

In my work I’ve been posted to Nottinghamshire, Nottingham. I know absolutely nothing about the area. I’ve read about Robin Hood of course, but apart from that, nothing. I want to go there with my wife on vacation first to find out more and ease into the job. I’ve not been able to find anything at all. In my 2008 copy of Fodor’s Great Britain there’s nothing. I made a search right now and came up with some threads about high gun crime and some amusing and informative answers by flanneruk. Otherwise nothing. It seems like a horrifically dull and dour area and city, a city more like something people run away from. In my copy of Touring Great Britain and Northern Ireland I’ve found very little.
Are there no interesting houses in Nottinghamshire?
Are there no really good hotels in Nottingham or the shire?
Presumably some noble person must have lived here at some time, and had income from tenants and fields, and this duke or earl or marquee must have had a seat, a country home, a house? And close to this house surrounded, one might think, by beautiful undulating grass clad hills, there must have been a village of some kind? With pubs, an inn, a garage, shops and a post office?
What happened?
I’m a workaholic, so I’ll go and work, but I would prefer if I knew more.
I have another question as well. For years I’ve been trying unsuccessfully to find a small, friendly hotel in Belgravia or close to it.
Come to think of it, this all sounds like I'm complaining. I'm not. I'm happy. I'd just like to learn more.

A quick search and I came up with this:
http://www.experiencenottinghamshire...y-and-heritage

Went to Nottingham and Worksop many years ago, didn't like it there but that's just a personal opinion, I was even asked (politely) to leave a pub in Worksop by the manager "for my own safety" as I had a southern accent.

I like Nottinghamshire. Nottingham itself can be a more than a bit dodgy, but only if you end up in the wrong bit. My niece lived there for many years very happily, staying on there after studying at the uni. She only moved back south when her partner's job took them south. They never had a problem with a southern accent - nor did my son when he lived there!
Nottingham has a thriving student population which keeps it young and lively.

The county offers canals and rivers for boating, the National Watersports centre for canoeing/kayaking. Good walking, local produce, nice market towns, small villages, nice pubs plus a couple of football teams, a county cricket ground,
Clumber Park, a National Trust property is worth a visit.

It is not far to the Peaks, the Pennines, or the lovely, quintessentially English countryside of Rutland and Leicestershire.

I've been to Nottingham a couple of times many years ago. It has trams, which is always a good sign (if trivial) in my book.

You can check out some of the more mundane aspects of daily life there at
http://www.nottinghamcity.gov.uk
http://www.upmystreet.com/nottingham.html

It's not all grim up north! There's a castle (Nottingham Castle). And below that castle is a pub. An old pub. A pub which claims to be the oldest in Britain. Whatever, there's a pub and a castle!!! (From memory, hazy at best, it's called Ye Olde Trip to Jerusalem - I love a great name - links into part of the caves, Duke's cellars and old brewery that are underneath the castle).

Thank you all. Very informative and helpful.
Madamtrashheap, why call yourself something like that? Seems like miscasting. Maybe “Veryhelpfulandverynice” next time?
Hetismij, excellent, thank you. Just what I was looking for. Seems wise to live somewhere outside of Nottingham. Are there villages you personally would recommend, at least for visiting, eating and staying in and perhaps bicycling around in for a few days and seing some sights? I suppose one of the reasons for what might have sounded like moaning was that my wife and I just visited Westport in Ireland, one of two planned villages in Ireland and with I believe possibly the only remaining house in Ireland close by still run by and owned by the original family, Lord Altamont and family. Lovely place.
Hooameye, if you can’t find yourself, you certainly found the right thread. Don’t know why that didn’t happen for me. Thank you.
Patricklondon, I agree about trams. Helpful. Thanks.

There are a series of detective novels which catch, I think, the two sides of Nottingham. The writer is John Harvey and the "hero" is Charlie Resnick.

My friend Chris is from Derby which is nearby, and they certainly went between both for nightlife and sporting events

Thanks. :)

Its not my favourite place. If you are there in October you will experience the annual Goose Fair - an amazing spectacle. As a DH Lawrence fan, his bithplace is not too far away and you are within striking distance of some realy beautiful spots - Peak district, Buxton and Bakewell, the Plague Village, Hathersage etc etc

The four quickly accessible sources for answers to your question are:

- The National Trust, which in your case isn't very helpful (http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/main...ottinghamshire)

- English Heritage, which shows a wealth of sites – but mostly 20 miles or more of the city. (http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/daysout/properties/: type "Nottinghamshire into the search box)

- Simon Jenkins' "England's Thousand Best Houses" , which lists in Nottinghamshire:
Carlton Hall, Carlton on Trent
DH Lawrence house in Eastwood
Holme Pierrepoint, 4 m E of Nottingham
Kelham Hall, Kelham
Newark Castle
Newstead Abbey, S E of Mansfield
A number of places in Nottingham, the local tourist office will tell you about
Papplewick Hall, Papplewick
Southwell Workhouse, as well as Southwell Minster below
Thoresby Hall, 4 m NW of Ollerton
in Nottingham,

Fat fingers in way again:

The four quickly accessible sources for answers to your question are:

- The National Trust, which in your case isn't very helpful (http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/main...ottinghamshire)

- English Heritage, which shows a wealth of sites – but mostly 20 miles or more of the city. (http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/daysout/properties/: type "Nottinghamshire into the search box)

- Simon Jenkins' "England's Thousand Best Houses" , which lists in Nottinghamshire:
Carlton Hall, Carlton on Trent
DH Lawrence house in Eastwood
Holme Pierrepoint, 4 m E of Nottingham
Kelham Hall, Kelham
Newark Castle
Newstead Abbey, S E of Mansfield
A number of places in Nottingham, the local tourist office will tell you about
Papplewick Hall, Papplewick
Southwell Workhouse, as well as Southwell Minster
Thoresby Hall, 4 m NW of Ollerton
Thrumpton Hall
Upton Hall
Winkburn Hall
Worksop, Mr Straw's House

Many of these are still in private ownership, and may not necessarily be visitable.


- Simon Jenkins' "England's Thousand Best Churches" , which lists 18 in Nottinghamshire. Of these, those rated with three or more stars:

St Mary, Blyth (huge Doom mural. Only about 500 churches in England retain any trace at all of their original pre-1530 wall paintings. This is one of the biggest)

St Mary, Clumber, and St Mary Egmanton. Very recent (post 1870) and quirky.

All Saints, Hawton (by English standarsds, astonishingly well-preserved, and only moderately vandalised, 14th century carving)

St Mary, Newark. With Grantham, Tewkesbury, Warwick and Beverley, one of England's half dozen truly outstanding non-cathedrals

The Sacheverell tombs at Holy Trinity, Ratcliffe on Soar.

All Saints, Strelley

Your fantasy about villages is generally wrong. Nottinghamshire's flat, Sherwood's status as a "forest" used "forest" in its original English meaning (referring to the kind of law prevailing there, and nothing to do with dense woodland, which isn't known to have ever existed in Notts), and Nottinghamshire got industrialised earlier than almost anywhere on earth - and at first that industrialisation affected what went on in people's home workshops, so most Cotswold-style quaintness got improved out by the mid-19th century.

However, we're currently commemorating the 200th anniversay of Nottinghamshire's greatest cultural gift to the world: Luddism.

Anyone who knows the first thing about history knows, of course, that the Luddites were 100% accurate in their predictions. They predicted their jobs, and their children's, would be destroyed. And they were.

Understanding what they thought, why they thought it, and why they were right is the perfect antidote to the self-interested twaddle modern corporate tycoons misquote from "The Economist" to duck paying taxes.

You'll understand our history, and the modern world, far better by attending some of the Luddite commemoration events in Nottingham than by seeking a village fantasyland that never existed.

oliverg - despair ye not. just outside Nottingham [well, about 20 mins drive] is a drop-dead gorgeous large village/little town called Southwell. our DD lived there for a year when she was at uni and she and we loved it. There is an ancient church [the Minster], several great pubs including the wonderfully named Brambly Apple [the eponymous fruit was discovered in a nearby garden] some lovely little shops, cafes and very nice houses.

lots of interesting places nearby as flanner and hetsmij have detailed.

Flanneruk. Actually I agree with you. It was a fantasy at best. Hubris, I think. Something grabbed a hold of me in Ireland.
I did suspect exactly what you’ve described, that Nottinghamshire was one of the first industrialised places on earth, and that if I wanted history, quaint or not – probably not – I might do better looking for old industrial sites, museums, perhaps about the spinning industry, or steel and so on (Sheffield). However, as I am a bit of a Luddite myself in what I consider my least professional moments in front of a computer or printer, I like to spend at least some of my time surrounded by grass and trees. All in all, however, I consider Luddism about as realistic and serious as the British society for promoting the Idea that The World is Flat.
Anyway, I still think you have a great sense of humour and historical insight, although for all I know that’s not a thing a Briton likes to hear. I’ll keep this answer “short”, since I lack your insight.
Since I have you “on the line” though, I thought I might ask another question which is only slightly related and may cause this thread to be moved to the discussion forum:
How to behave in Britain? I have friends of different nationalities and I watch people and how they behave (in Britain). I see it’s usually not so good to shout loudly in German in a street in London, or snap your fingers hard several times, saying between mouthfuls: “Vaiiitter, vaitterr!! More bier hier!”
However, the Britons themselves aren’t always so well behaved. Depends on who you meet. So usually I don’t give a damn. I like comfortable shoes and that will never change. But now I find I will do business in England, and I’m thinking that most British people probably have an ocean of knowledge and information regarding how not to behave when visiting, or even living there.
Thanks for your tips, by the way. I have “The thousand best houses” as I found out when I did a more extensive search. (Asked my wife to find it after having looked for half an hour. Took her fifteen seconds.)
Steevelyon. Thank you. Good tips. For some reason I’m not a D.H.Lawrence fan, although I do like some of the landscape he describes. My favourite British author is more austere, R.L. Stevenson, and especially “The Weir of Hermiston”. Maybe something to do with upbringing. Not that that’s got anything to do with this.
Annhig. Excellent. Thank you.

>>I’m thinking that most British people probably have an ocean of knowledge and information regarding how not to behave when visiting, or even living there.<<

Sadly, true, and there's always someone who will go out of their way to give you the benefit of it - which personally I would regard as a prime example of how not to behave (except if you happen to be standing on the left of the escalator, or dithering in front of an exit and blocking everyone else's way, or insisting on ordering a frothafrappamochalattecino when I'm gagging for a plain black coffee RIGHT NOW).

But if you've time, you might get some useful insights from Kate Fox's Watching the English
http://www.sirc.org/news/watching_the_english.shtml
http://www.popularscience.co.uk/reviews/rev367.htm

If you must live IN Nottingham, West Bridgeford is a good area. But really, I agree that Southwell is the place to be.

I have friends who live in Nottinghamshire in a village and while it may not be chocolate box pretty, they like it, and he is very outdoorsey as he does iron man events, so is always off cycling and running and stuff locally.

The UK is a small place. Even if where you live isn't the best, you aren't far from somewhere nicer to visit. As long as you don't move to one of the grotty estates in the middle of Nottingham that have police cars permanently on patrol, you'll be fine!

How to behave? We are pretty tolerant of foreigners and their funny little ways with a few exceptions: you MUST queue properly for things, even if that takes a bit of working out with multiple lines; you MUST stand on the right on escalators on the tube in London and leave the left free for those in a hurry; you MUST buy a round when it's your turn in the pub; you MUST be nice to every animal you meet but don't worry about being nice to random children; DON'T freak out strangers in lifts or on public transport by talking to them; DON'T call anything quaint.

If you're coming to work in a management position here, you'll probably be fazed by the apparent lack of respect with which you're treated by those reporting to you - and misunderstand the language code.

Generally, British workers speak more directly,especially to bosses, than their transatlantic peers. But managers are expected to speak the Noblesse Oblige (NO) dialect to their subordinates.

American "come and see me now" in NO is "when you've got a moment, can you pop up, please". This
American "ill-phrased rubbish" translates into NO as "I don't understand..." (the dominant assumption in NO being that if an NO speaker, being omniscient, can't understand something, it must have been sloppily thought out)
American "Do x" in NO is "would you like to do x"(and absolutely isn't a question)
And so on. On average,in any transaction, English demands at least three times more pleases and thank yous than American.

And remember: you're here to do a job, not propagandise for the American Way. If you truly believe, on reflection, that working methods in the Detroit (or Bentonville) office are better than in West Bridgeford:
- first, reflect again
- then think very hard about how to get this message across. "I saw a great idea in Frankfurt (or Sydney, or Toronto)" is always a more effective way of describing something than "back home, we...."

If you can afford it and you would like to be near the Nottingham city centre then THE PARK ESTATE is the place to be. Nearby is Hart's Hotel- comes recommended.

Nottingham kind of reminded me of Pittsburgh.
:-)

dave

Well I moved to Derby. I thought Nottingham was supposed to the be happening place. :)

While lacking in glamor we are finding this to be a fine place to live. Good job, good neighbors, etc. We are taking advantage of the travel opportunities and I'm sure you will as well.

Good tips from all, thanks.
Nona1: Not being nice to children (even strange ones) seems a bit sick, otherwise I think I should do fine. :) To you and to
Flanneruk and PatrickLondon: thank you for good advice on behaviour.
And to all others: thanks for all the suggestions on where to live and what to see and not to see. To (mis)quote Blair: It’s not something I’m used to, and frankly, not what I expected.
I think I’ll bow out (gracefully or not) now before I say something (even more) culturally inappropriate - and let this thread peter out.
I once read a very good book by a, to me, totally unknown British writer regarding the First World War. (Can’t remember his name now.) In this book, an American visits his aunt who has married a Lord in Britain. He is fresh out of college. (“You can tell he’s been to Yale but you can’t tell him much,” is one of the things he’s fond of saying. Naturally, he didn’t go to Yale. He is a poor relative. ) He has his very old and worn tuxedo brushed and steamed and pressed by a sceptical manservant in the house he is visiting (in the country). (“Dinner is always black tie at least, Sir. At least.”) Standing in a corner the ball room in his slightly green tuxedo, desperately holding on to a drink and a thin smile, he thinks: “Anyone who’s ever seen Lord Marbury in his splendidly pressed, immaculate, tailored dinner jacket making polite conversation to a lady in the middle of the room should be forced to crawl into a corner and sit there the rest of the evening with the word “Uncouth” written across
his forehead.”
Much better then, to do as Bertie Wooster, I think. He has stomach problems, a sudden pain, and his doctor in Harley Street tells him it’s all in his mind. From now on, whenever he feels pain, he should just smile, try to become more positive and optimistic. So he tries. He is invited to the country (as usual) and at the house are several people with something to hide. One man has become rich by secretly producing women corsets and lingerie, another steals habitually from the guests, and there’s also a love affair no-one is supposed to know about and someone who drinks, I think. Bertie has cultivated a smile whenever he feels the pain, and this smile has, unknown to him become very sarcastic, ironic, cold, world weary because of the pain. He gets into the habit of fastening this gaze on whoever happens to be standing next to him. And so, one after the other, when he has looked at them, the other guests come over to him and confess. “I saw you were looking at me just now, so you must know.” For some reason he often gets the pain at this time, and smiles. “Ah, yes. I see you know everything. It would be very helpful to me if…” As usual Wooster has some problem which can be solved in this way, especially with the help of Jeeves. Perhaps that’s the way to do things.
Again, thank you for all your help. It's been most kind. :)

I suspect you were approaching this in the right spirit before we even posted....

Good luck.

I'm a little late to the conversation, but as somebody who just moved to Nottingham on July 1st from a much larger European capital, I have to say that I too was apprehensive prior to moving here, but that it has turned out to be a very enjoyable place to live (apart from the weather of course). Unlike the other recommendations to live outside the centre, I would advise the opposite. You may die of boredom in the suburbs. I would recommend the Lace Market area but it does depend on your age profile, tastes etc.
I've been very impressed by the restaurants here. The people have been wonderfully warm, welcoming and friendly. (The girls are beautiful, might I add.) Overall, I don't think you could expect much more from a town of half a million people.

There are some beautiful areas not so far away - the Peak District obviously, is stunning. I recommend taking a look at Southwell, Bakewell and Matlock as examples of beautiful middle English country villages.

Good luck!