Help needed with Europe itinerary
Apr 21st, 2017, 04:06 PM
#21
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I agree PalenQ, it can be fun watching kids do things like a boat on a pond but getting on a boat in a pond is not YOUR interest as an adult. Just like museums as you say are not a kid's interest.
A family has no choice but to try and balance the two. That's assuming of course the adults even try to balance them and don't just drag the kids around what interests the adults.
If I had a dime for every parent I've heard say something like, 'Oh we took our Johnny to the Forum in Rome. We believe in educating our children and exposing them to cultural things, history, the arts etc. at an early age', I'd be richer than I am.
Then you go ask Johnny how his trip was and he says, 'Oh it was OK.' So you ask what did you like most in Rome and he says, 'The ice cream in Rome was really creamy and yummy.' No mention of having visited the Forum.
To suggest that an adult's interests and a child's interests cross in 'thousands of sites/places' is to ignore reality.
Janisj, I note you failed to list even a few of the 'thousands of sites/places' you suggest exist where the interests are mutual.
StCirq, perhaps you would like to try and list some interests you had in common as you say you had. The Forum? At age 12, 10 and 7?
A family has no choice but to try and balance the two. That's assuming of course the adults even try to balance them and don't just drag the kids around what interests the adults.
If I had a dime for every parent I've heard say something like, 'Oh we took our Johnny to the Forum in Rome. We believe in educating our children and exposing them to cultural things, history, the arts etc. at an early age', I'd be richer than I am.
Then you go ask Johnny how his trip was and he says, 'Oh it was OK.' So you ask what did you like most in Rome and he says, 'The ice cream in Rome was really creamy and yummy.' No mention of having visited the Forum.
To suggest that an adult's interests and a child's interests cross in 'thousands of sites/places' is to ignore reality.
Janisj, I note you failed to list even a few of the 'thousands of sites/places' you suggest exist where the interests are mutual.
StCirq, perhaps you would like to try and list some interests you had in common as you say you had. The Forum? At age 12, 10 and 7?
Apr 22nd, 2017, 09:01 AM
#24
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Yet again you fail to back up your statement janisj. I don't know who the banned person you refer to was but I'm gonna guess that that person called you out on your exaggerated statements.
Maybe it's a nationality thing. Trump is really prone to it as well.
Bilboburgler, that's a reasonable response. I'm trying to figure out though, do you go of in one direction and the kids go off without you in another direction, both pursuing their own interests? Most parents aren't likely to be OK with that idea I think.
So I had a look. It turns out, you go with your kids on what hopefully will interest them.
https://www.romanbaths.co.uk/family-activities
ie: "We have family activity trails which you can collect at the reception desk. For under 7s try our Roman Baths Trail and for over 7s try our Meet the Romans trail."
So the parent's do what the kids will like, not what the parent's will like. They are as you say a 'different visit for kids' but the parents are also doing the 'kids thing'.
Back to an adult activity or a children's activity. One or the other.
Maybe it's a nationality thing. Trump is really prone to it as well.
Bilboburgler, that's a reasonable response. I'm trying to figure out though, do you go of in one direction and the kids go off without you in another direction, both pursuing their own interests? Most parents aren't likely to be OK with that idea I think.
So I had a look. It turns out, you go with your kids on what hopefully will interest them.
https://www.romanbaths.co.uk/family-activities
ie: "We have family activity trails which you can collect at the reception desk. For under 7s try our Roman Baths Trail and for over 7s try our Meet the Romans trail."
So the parent's do what the kids will like, not what the parent's will like. They are as you say a 'different visit for kids' but the parents are also doing the 'kids thing'.
Back to an adult activity or a children's activity. One or the other.
Apr 22nd, 2017, 09:16 AM
#25
Dogeared earned a place on my "ignore list" some time back. But on the general issue of kids and parents activities, surely a great deal depends on the kids and parents in question. Not all adults enjoy art museums, and not all kids despise them. When I was growing up in England we often visited stately homes as a family, and we all enjoyed them. I am sure some kids would have been totally bored.
Apr 22nd, 2017, 06:02 PM
#26
dogeared = Sojourntraveller (and other screen names)
Sojourtraveller was permanently banned for name calling, dominating threads, inappropriate language and just general/all around nastiness. A dog doesn't change his spots -- and even being as 'smart' as dogeared claims to be, he can't hide his personality, style, syntax, vocabulary, or back story . . .
Sojourtraveller was permanently banned for name calling, dominating threads, inappropriate language and just general/all around nastiness. A dog doesn't change his spots -- and even being as 'smart' as dogeared claims to be, he can't hide his personality, style, syntax, vocabulary, or back story . . .
Apr 23rd, 2017, 01:30 AM
#27
Well York minster is a pretty safe place (no murder since 1450 or so) , while the Roman baths also have different audio for kids and Adults, but you walk around together.
Then trampolining is great fun for all ages, as is canoing, sailing, swimming, bike riding,climbing, white water rafting.
I think adults know their kids and generally both know what each other like and put up with or enjoy what the other likes.
Then trampolining is great fun for all ages, as is canoing, sailing, swimming, bike riding,climbing, white water rafting.
I think adults know their kids and generally both know what each other like and put up with or enjoy what the other likes.
Apr 23rd, 2017, 05:55 AM
#28
Having taken our son to Europe when he was that age, my own anecdotal evidence (very small sample, not statistically significant, YMMV... is that enough qualifiers?) suggests that big cities can be confusing and tiring for both parents and kids.
There's no question that the choices are limitless for kid-oriented activities in London or Paris, but logistics and costs raise their ugly heads. With a few days in London or Paris, how many hours do you want to spend in the tube or the metro zipping around each metropolis (at a considerable cost every time you do it) and popping out of the ground like meerkats, completely disoriented and not knowing where you are or how you got there?
We don't know your kids, but when mine (and friends', both American and Europeans themselves) traveled to foreign places, satisfying their kids' dietary wishes became a big problem. Some kids can be adventurous, but every lunch time and every dinner time for two weeks? In my case, that was pushing it. Sure, there are McDs and other kid-friendly places in Paris and London and Barcelona and everywhere else, but is that a good plan? Just saying - we don't know your kids, so maybe this is moot.
What would I do? Well, a couple of ideas.
- Car based touring, apartment/house rental. A car can be more than a means of transportation, it can be a sanctuary, a "known place" that provides continuity during the day, security in the evenings, a place to get out of the weather, and a way to keep a parental eye on a potential herd of cats. And renting an apartment or a house, even if it's for only two or three nights, will save money and serve some of the same purposes. Bring the kids along when you buy breakfast cereal in a local shop, or sandwich makings from a street market - it's a twist on the familiar with a comfortable payoff at breakfast or lunch time.
- Villages and small towns rather than big cities. The big cities will still be there when the kids are older and their tastes and patience have matured. Staying in smaller communities (another justification for the car) offers the opportunity to meet people, walk around, and all that. Think about a farm stay - fantastic for the kids, pretty fun for the parents too, and way cheaper than some big-city hotel.
And lastly - shields up, Mr. Sulu - think about a cruise. What if your family and you met up in Copenhagen? It's a fabulously kid-friendly big city (Tivoli alone will knock your collective socks off) where you can walk everywhere, or rent bikes. Everybody speaks English and there are few places where kids are more loved than Denmark.
Spend a couple of days in the city, then get on a cruise ship for a 10-day cruise. This could be through the Baltic - Sweden, the Baltic states, maybe Saint Petersburg - or maybe the Norwegian fjords... several options.
Why a cruise? Because they are VERY kid-friendly. There are kids activities and "clubs," the food options run from exotic-enough to pizza and burgers, the ships all offer babysitting services so Mom and Dad can have cocktail hour or go to the kitschy babes-with-feathers nightly floor shows (or not.) Port calls are brief enough that they're not tiring, but offer tremendous variety. The cabins are comfortable and provide a terrific base. And importantly, cruises free parents from logistics and scheduling challenges - no rental car or transit passes to fuss over, no checkout times (except the last day.) Need laundry done? Some ships have coin laundries, others offer reasonably priced valet laundry services. Room service is free and available 24/7. There are movie theaters and TV in the cabins. And, on a per-person per day basis, cruises are often cheaper than comparable land-based trips when you add it all up.
So anyway, just some thought spaghetti thrown up against the walls.
There's no question that the choices are limitless for kid-oriented activities in London or Paris, but logistics and costs raise their ugly heads. With a few days in London or Paris, how many hours do you want to spend in the tube or the metro zipping around each metropolis (at a considerable cost every time you do it) and popping out of the ground like meerkats, completely disoriented and not knowing where you are or how you got there?
We don't know your kids, but when mine (and friends', both American and Europeans themselves) traveled to foreign places, satisfying their kids' dietary wishes became a big problem. Some kids can be adventurous, but every lunch time and every dinner time for two weeks? In my case, that was pushing it. Sure, there are McDs and other kid-friendly places in Paris and London and Barcelona and everywhere else, but is that a good plan? Just saying - we don't know your kids, so maybe this is moot.
What would I do? Well, a couple of ideas.
- Car based touring, apartment/house rental. A car can be more than a means of transportation, it can be a sanctuary, a "known place" that provides continuity during the day, security in the evenings, a place to get out of the weather, and a way to keep a parental eye on a potential herd of cats. And renting an apartment or a house, even if it's for only two or three nights, will save money and serve some of the same purposes. Bring the kids along when you buy breakfast cereal in a local shop, or sandwich makings from a street market - it's a twist on the familiar with a comfortable payoff at breakfast or lunch time.
- Villages and small towns rather than big cities. The big cities will still be there when the kids are older and their tastes and patience have matured. Staying in smaller communities (another justification for the car) offers the opportunity to meet people, walk around, and all that. Think about a farm stay - fantastic for the kids, pretty fun for the parents too, and way cheaper than some big-city hotel.
And lastly - shields up, Mr. Sulu - think about a cruise. What if your family and you met up in Copenhagen? It's a fabulously kid-friendly big city (Tivoli alone will knock your collective socks off) where you can walk everywhere, or rent bikes. Everybody speaks English and there are few places where kids are more loved than Denmark.
Spend a couple of days in the city, then get on a cruise ship for a 10-day cruise. This could be through the Baltic - Sweden, the Baltic states, maybe Saint Petersburg - or maybe the Norwegian fjords... several options.
Why a cruise? Because they are VERY kid-friendly. There are kids activities and "clubs," the food options run from exotic-enough to pizza and burgers, the ships all offer babysitting services so Mom and Dad can have cocktail hour or go to the kitschy babes-with-feathers nightly floor shows (or not.) Port calls are brief enough that they're not tiring, but offer tremendous variety. The cabins are comfortable and provide a terrific base. And importantly, cruises free parents from logistics and scheduling challenges - no rental car or transit passes to fuss over, no checkout times (except the last day.) Need laundry done? Some ships have coin laundries, others offer reasonably priced valet laundry services. Room service is free and available 24/7. There are movie theaters and TV in the cabins. And, on a per-person per day basis, cruises are often cheaper than comparable land-based trips when you add it all up.
So anyway, just some thought spaghetti thrown up against the walls.
Apr 23rd, 2017, 07:06 AM
#29
It is entirely unnecessary to travel everywhere in London and Paris by tube/metro. Both cities have excellent bus networks, and if you have a smart phone they are very easy to use. Sit up top on a London double-decker and you will have great views.
I just read a blog post by a woman who took her 11 year old daughter to Paris and they had a great time. She had previously taken her at age five and the daughter had good memories. There are many blogs out there written by people who travel successfully with their kids without resorting to cruises.
I just read a blog post by a woman who took her 11 year old daughter to Paris and they had a great time. She had previously taken her at age five and the daughter had good memories. There are many blogs out there written by people who travel successfully with their kids without resorting to cruises.
