Help me plan a perfect, non-hectic France, Italy 3 week trip
 

Hi Fodorites.

Please help me design a perfect European vacation. I am totally open to any suggestions!

The good news is I was able to book for 4 free openjaw tickets using my accumulated skymiles for 3 weeks in Europe arriving in Paris and leaving from Rome. The bad news is I will be travelling in August with lots of Europeans due to work contraints.

Please help me design a memorable and relaxing trip. Here is my information:

First trip to Europe, have travelled extensively in western hemisphere, esp US
We are 2 adults in their late 40's travelling with 2 mid-teen teenagers
Travelling for 3 weeks in August, Openjaw into Paris, Out of Rome
Not particularly fond of urban vacations at least in the US cities so far
Like lakes, mountains(Alps?), ocean sunsets with a glass of wine
Got to have air conditioning for August night sleeping
Would like to keep hotel budget to less than $250 US per night
Would like to keep the vacation non-hectic and not change locations too frequently
Enjoy mix of touristy sights by day, but like to stay at scenic areas
Don't particularly like large crowds of people (who does?)
I am not sure if driving or complex train stations are less hectic

Thanks for any and all help!!!

EP,

Evidently you have already decided that you will be sightseeing in Paris and Rome, so tell us the main objectives in those cities and we can suggest others or give helpful hints.

First, list your NIGHTS on the ground, 8/3, 8/4, etc. Check to see if you will be in France or Italy on holidays. This can affect train travel and other plans.

You say you don't like large cities (US) and crowds, but you do realize you will have both on this trip. Therefore, I suggest you mix your trip with the 2 major cities and countryside/mountains. 3 or 4 "bases" would work well.

Paris 5 nts
French countryside 5 nts
Alps/Dolomites 5 nts
Rome 5 nts

Something like that for a start. Then start looking at guidebooks for possible destinations of interest to your family. Perhaps the Loire Valley and chateaux? Perhaps hiking in the Dolomiti? French gite stay with a pool? Villa/apt in Italian countryside with a pool?

The number of days in each location would need to adjust according to what you want to see and your teens' bordom threshold! From what Fodorites say, teens tend to really like the major European cities - so much to do and see and they can actually roam around on their own (if you let them).

Your lodging buget will be tight for 4 people. Best bet will probably be apartments, but check them out for reviews. In your favor, lodging rates for hotels are a bit lower in Rome during August. Can't say about Paris, I've only visited once in Oct.

Car rental will be best for your countryside days.

Hurry on the decisions and lodging res. You are late for an Aug trip for a family of 4!

Once you decide on destinations, we can help with the details.

Buon viaggio!

PS - if you pick your destinations right, you can have both scenic bases and touristy sightseeing. For the major cities, you really must stay in the city centers for efficient sightseeing, and Paris and Rome are incredibly scenic cities!

I would include an Alps and possibly lakes destination to this trip. I agree with Dale that both Paris and Rome deserve 5 days each, leaving you with perhaps 10 days for 2 or 3 more destinations.
Now, transportation becomes your next challenge, and that will depend on your choice of destinations. I think I would use trains until I got to Italy. Tell us more---this could be a great trip but with 4 of you it will call for good planning.

Sorry Dayle---my fingers are suspect.

I noticed you qualified your urban vacations with "at least in the US cities." The European cities, unlike many US cities, for the most part preserved attractive medieval, Baroque, or Renaissance, Gothic, etc. look that each city flourished under.

Scenic places attract crowds. You have to choose. Either special locations that interest only a few people, or visit scenic places that attract large number of people. You have some control by visiting place early in the morning or really really late at night. For example, Rome's Tivoli fountain is mobbed during the day, but there is hardly anyone at the fountain even at 9am in the morning.

Having decided to have a holiday in an area which itself is major holiday destination at the peak of the season and when it hotest you are in an "interesting position". You do need to get booking to get any real choice and you will have to put up with a bit of crowding. I'd look at the following

Paris for 5 days with maybe some day trips to Versailles, Rheims etc.

A week in the Jura (south of Bescancon) with a rental car and relatively cheap hotels, good walking, mountain biking etc. Some where like http://www.tourisme-metabief.com/

There are many nice hotels up in the mountains here with good food and drink.

Then cross into Italy and Tuscany (if you can find space) if not possible have a look at the countryside of the Po to the south of Soave. Basing yourselves here lets you visit Verona, Venice etc with minimal effort. Soave itself is a walled city (but right on top of the motorway) there are other nice old cities going south, including Montagnana which goes much ignored.http://www.comune.montagnana.pd.it/
Padua http://www.turismopadova.it/?set_language=en&cl=en and Ferrara each of which are easy to get to and will not be crushed with tourists.

Bob, happens ALL the time! :-)

You'll find some discounted hotels in the major cities of Italy during August as everyone seems to spend that time on the coast or in the mountains.

Agree that for this trip I would do 4 destinations - Paris, Rome, someplace in the Berner Oberalnd and either the Italian Lakes or Tuscany. EVeryplace will be crowded (just make up you mind to it.) Franc and definitely Italy can be expected to be hot to very hot (high 90s and humid in Rome) - so you will need lodgings with AC.

You should get started NOW searching in-depth -since finding central lodging with AC for 4 adults for yuor budget will be a major challenge. You should be looking for hotels with "family rooms" but be sure they know you are 4 adults - not little kids. (When traveling with our teens we always got them their own room to have 2 baths - but I don;t think your budget will cover that.)

As for travel I would rent a car in Paris and drop in Rome but we like doing Euro road trips and don;t really care about drop-off fees. For you train (but you need to buy many tickets in advance to get discounts) might be more economical.

Greg, just wondering for my own interest, did you mean Rome's Trevi fountain or Tivoli (Hadrian 's villa)?

Thanks for all the tips so far. I've avoided heat during other summer travels by touring only early mornings and late afternoons. Bern Oberland looks wonderful. thanks nytraveler!

i know I said I wanted to not spend so much time in the cities, but I am considering Venice because it is a place I heard so many people say you should not miss. For first timers, is this too much travel?

I'm definitely looking at either family rooms or 2 double rooms. It would be pretty unbearable to be in close quarters with two 16 year olds for 3 weeks.

I think one "rule" you have brought up that might worth validating to your satisfaction is city vs non-city. It appears your city experiences seem to be US based and not based on your experiences from Europe. Are your interests really separated strictly across city/ non-city in any country? Or is it applicable only to the places you have been to? You might be leaving a lot of money only the table by restricting your choices.

When I visit tropical destinations, I am fascinated by those who would not eat local fruits, such as mangoes, papayas, etc. Reason? They have eaten ones imported from elsewhere in the US and they did not like them.

Venice is unique. Is it not to be missed? Probably yes, but can be no. Depending on where you visit and when you visit, all you might encounter are seas of flag waving cruise tour groups. You can manage your experience, for example, by staying away from the San Marco square area during the busiest time. Even at tourist mobbed city like Venice, if I get out at sun rise and up to about 8am, I can take pictures of tranquil canals with nobody else around.

Whether something is too much is a mismatch between the resources (time, stamina, etc.) and the expectations. Are 5 destinations always too much over 3 destinations? Not if you overload agenda in 3 destinations but prioritize the agenda in 5 destinations within your constraints.

As for the denisea's fountain question, yes, I meant the Trevi fountain.

As kybourbon said, something you might need to take into consideration is that Europeans go on holiday in August, and for example in Paris, you might get some room bargains, but see mainly tourists in the city, and there might be some unexpected closures of things you wanted to see, restaurants, etc. Check opening dates and times of attractions.
You will find the Lakes District will be very busy then, too.

Before you decide you must see Venice, check out room prices and see if there are any you can live with. Food and rooms are very expensive in Venice, especially in the touristy areas. I was a bit shocked planning our Sept Oct trip.

Bilboberger, love your Padua suggestion, close to a lot of things, beautiful itself, and half hour from Venice for a day trip.

bookmarking

You can find apartments to stay in, with more room for your money. Look at sleepinitaly.com, VRBO.com, and TripAdvisor.com. But do it NOW!

DO NOT take a car into the cities. Many central areas are off limits to non-resident cars, finding your way around is impossible, parking is expensive and more impossible, traffic is even more impossible. Also, if you want to return a car in a different country it will cost you a lot extra.