3Xmom

I, 'Mom', am taking my 19 & 18 yr old boys, and 14 yr old girl on a once-in-a-lifetime trip to France and Italy this July. The 19 year old will already be in Barcelona so I was thinking of the other 3 of us flying into Barcelona ( may as well see it and make sure we find each other! ) on about June 27 and leaving Europe ( departure location tbd ) as late as August 1. So, I'd like to stay in Barcelona for 1 or 2 nights, then stay/see some of Provence & the French Riviera over about 5 days, then over to Italy, then back up north to Paris (flying?) and stay there for about 5 days with a day trip to WWII sites. In Italy, we definitely want to see Rome, Florence, Venice, some part of Tuscany, Positano/Pompeii/Amalfi coast and Cinque Terre. My husband will meet us in Rome and be with us for a week. We have a somewhat healthy budget, $30K, and don't mind staying in apts., B&Bs, and the odd nice hotel. We could do a quick flight once, and am willing to do any type of transportation ( trains, hired drivers etc. ) and day tours/guides. Please help any way you can. This may be the last big trip my boys ever do with me and I want to make it the best of their life! Oh, none of us has ever been to France or Italy.��

Michael

I would fly from Barcelona to Rome or better yet Naples (closest to Pompeii and the Amalfi coast), take the train to Rome. From Rome rent a car for the rest of your Italy itinerary (Orvieto, Tuscany, etc.), drop off the car as close to the French border as possible. Take the train to Menton or Nice. Rent a car to see the sights on the Riviera and the Provence, ending in Avignon. Take the train to Paris. If only a day trip to W.W.II sites, it will have to be a guided trip, probably starting from Paris.

But my final question: why not concentrate on the Iberian peninsula rather than Italy and France? Or the Iberian with visits to cities which would involve flying and train travel. With Naples (Pompeii etc), Rome, Florence, Venice and Paris, you would have more than enough to do. Drop Tuscany, Cinque Terre (you'll see dramatic seascapes along the Amalfi coast), the Riviera and the Provence.

sandralist

I really strongly advise against renting a car in July in Italy and driving it to the Amalfi coast. You really don't need one in any of the Italian destinations that you mentioned other than rural Tuscany, and maybe not even there if you are only looking for a peek.

Healthy as your budget is you are really paying a premium to transport 3 of you to Barcelona for 1 or 2 nights and then transporting 4 of you someplace else you prefer to be. Those of you arriving in Barcelona are likely to be too jet lagged to get much out of it for 1.5 days. I would either make a plan to stay there longer if your son wants to show you the town or asking him to meet you elsewhere.

sandralist

PS: It looks like the week your husband is meeting you might be fixed dates -- or is that flexible? Because if it is a fixed week on the calendar, then people will be able to make better suggestions knowing which week that is, when you know for certain you must be in Rome.

StuDudley

Here is what I would do:

- 3 nights in Barcelona

- Take the 9:25 TGV from Barcelona to Nimes that arrives at 12:51. Pick up a car, and stay in St Remy for 5 nights/4 1/2 days.

- Drive 2 1/2 hrs to Nice, return the car, and stay in Nice for 4 nights. We like the Hotel Windsor.

- Take the slow (5 1/2 to 7 hrs, 1-2 train changes) train to the Cinque Terre and stay 3 nights (personally, I like the CT but I would not go there in July with a family of 5). Stay in Monterosso.

- Take either the 9:05 or the 11:05 train to Florence, that arrives 2 1/2 hrs later with a train change. Stay in Florence for 3 nights

- Pick up a car in Florence, and drive to the Val d'Orcia (Pienza, San Quirico, Montepulciano, Montalcino) and stay 4 nights there.

- Drive to Chuisi, return the car, and take the 11:45 train to Naples that arrives at 15:29. You could also pick up the train in Orvieto (well worth a visit), but sometimes the car rental offices there come & go. Take a bus to Positano and stay there for 4 nights/3 1/4 days.

- Get back to Naples and take one of the many trains to Rome. Stay in Rome 5 nights.

- Take one of the hourly trains to Venice San Lucia and stay in Venice for 4 nights.

We are now up to 35 days - and you haven't visited Paris yet and you wanted to spend 5 days there. Somethings gotta give. IMO, the number of "nights" in all these places are pretty much the minimum time I would spend there for a family of 4-5 (who might move slow at times). Any less time in these places and you will start to spend more time "getting there" than "being there". I would drop the Cinque Terre - especially since you will visit the Amalfi Coast later. I love Barcelona, but since one of your sons is staying there and your husband won't be with you on this portion of the trip - I would skip that and have your Barcelona son meet you in Provence. There - you've got your 5 days for Paris!!

Redo arrival plans:
- Fly to Marseille or Nice and start your trip in Provence.

Nice to Florence
Take the 9:50 train that arrives at 16:55 with 2 train changes. I know this is a long trip - but Nice to the CT isn't much better. See if there are flights from Nice to Florence.

- After Venice, fly to Paris and spend your remaining time there.

Stu Dudley

isabel

Listen to Stu, he knows what he is talking about. His suggestions on minimum amount of time in places and where to use train vs car are good.

So that means you really need to drop something. My suggestion would be to drop the Amalfi Coast since it's the furthest. I absolutely love the Amalfi Coast but it definitely deserves more than 3 or 4 days, and it's the furthest from the rest of the places you want to see. So would do the Ligurian Coast instead (I know Stu said he wouldn't do that mid season but I think he's talking about just the CT itself). Anyway - the Ligurian Coast is more than just the Cinque Terre. I would base in Rapallo (or Santa Marguerite or Camogli) and do a day trip to the CT as well as day trips to Portovenere and Portofino. It's not 'quite' as scenic as the Amalfi Coast but it's close and it makes more sense on your itinerary. I would stay there at least 4 or 5 nights but you'd be gaining time by eliminating the AC.

Since you probably still need to eliminate something I would eliminate the 'rural Tuscany' part since that would mean you wouldn't need a car at all in Italy. Extend the Florence stay by a few nights and do day trips to Siena and some of the smaller villages. You could even get a driver to take you on a tour of several villages.

So the Italy part would be: Ligurian Coast 4-5 nights (lots of day trips), train to Florence for 4-5 nights with day trips, train to Rome for 5 nights, train to Venice for 3-4 nights.

3Xmom

Thanks everyone! I've learned a lot, most importantly that I should shave off at least one destination and maybe rethink landing in Barcelona. Sandralist, the jet-lag comment made a lot of sense.

Michael, this may be the only time in my life I get to France, so I'd like to see it more than the Iberian Peninsula, but thanks. The tour for WWII sites suggestion is good to know. Since I'm probably dropping Barcelona now, I'll probably start in Provence rather than Rome. It will be nice to deal with Jet lag in a slower place in Provence.

Sandralist, thank you. I've been warned about the scary windy drive to Positano/Amalfi Coast. Is that what you were referring to when you said not to rent a car in Italy in July? When my husband meets us is not a fixed date. Just sometime in July. Good point.

StuDudley! You rock! Thanks for the itinerary you suggested, I guess I was kind of on the right track as I wasn't sure if I should start in Paris ( have my son meet us there ) or further south in Barcelona or Provence. It's also so helpful to know when to take the train and when to rent a car. Thank you! One question-what do you think about Isabel's suggestion to see Tuscany by staying in Florence longer and doing day trips?

Does anyone have good recommendations for driver/ tour guides? A friend recommended 'Ancient Rome' and 'Viator.com'.
What area of Paris could anyone recommend? Food needs to be close by due to the 3 teenagers.
3Xmom.��

3Xmom

Isabel-forgot to say thank you! Good suggestions and backing up StuDudley gave me confidence as I thought too that it looked like a pretty sound plan. I really want to see the Amalfi coast, and Cinque Terre not as much, so I will drop CT. I like the Florence/Tuscany idea.��

StuDudley

>>One question-what do you think about Isabel's suggestion to see Tuscany by staying in Florence longer and doing day trips? <<

Tuscany and Provence are two regions that are best visited by car, and staying in the area. Day trips from big cities have a lot of "overhead". We've spent 20 weeks in Provence, 20 weeks on the Cote d'Azur, and about 10 weeks in the Val d'Orcia/Tuscany. Here is the Shutterfly book my wife did about our recent stay in the Val d'Orcia for 2 weeks in April 2013.
http://share.shutterfly.com/share/re...=1EYt2Llw1ZMgm

Click "View Photo Book" and then "full screen"

We were in Nice and Provence for 4 weeks in 2014, and my wife is just finishing her Shutterfly book for that trip. I'll provide the link to that book when she is done.

I also have a 35 page itinerary for Provence & the Cote d'Azur that describes our favorite villages, scenic drives, markets, shops, sites, restaurants, etc. I have another for Italy with a heavy emphasis on Tuscany. I've sent my various itineraries to over 5,000 people on Fodors (really). If you would like a copy, e-mail me at [email protected] and I'll attach them to the reply e-mail. State which itineraries you want - I receive about 3-8 requests every day, so I don't know which ones you want if you just request "itineraries".

Stu Dudley

sandralist

3Xmom,

My real reason for recommending against a car on the Amalfi coast in July is traffic jams.

I live in Italy, on the Italian Riviera, and I recommend that you not take the train all the way from Nice to Florence. Even if you were stopping in le Cinque Terre -- which I agree you should drop -- it is a long and dreary ride. There are no flights from Nice to Florence. Instead, after touring Provence, drop off your car in Nice and fly to Rome or Venice.

However, at this point I am losing track of whether you want to stay in Rome and if your husband is meeting you or what. You expressed a lot of enthusiasm for Stu Dudley's itineary -- but I don't see Rome included in it anywhere, and now you are asking about tours in Rome, and you say you definitely want to see the Amalfi coast.

sandralist

Oh sorry! I now see that Stu Dudley's itinerary does include nights in Rome and in the Amalfi.

If you like that plan overall, drop taking the train from Nice to Florence and instead fly to Rome, pick up a car and drive to the val d'Orcia. Then you can follow the rest of the route he outlined.

sandralist

It occurred to me later to add that you can fly from Nice to Venice. Then you could simply go though Italy from the north to the south, and find a flight from Naples to Paris.

There are also many flights from Marseille to Rome if you feel like skipping Nice entirely. (No opinion one way or the other, just pointing out the option.)

3Xmom

Sorry for replying after so long, I've tried twice before but they didn't go through. Anyway, thanks again for the help Sandralist and Stu Dudley. So good to know there are no flights to Florence so I started looking into that. StuDudley, I will definitely look at your wife's photos and ask you send me one of your many itineraries. Looks like I've been lucky having both of you helping me.

I originally had a lot more locations on our wish list, so one of my boys was so disappointed when I told him it had dwindled down to only France and Italy. Thus, Berlin has been reinstated. I know this will have quite an impact so I am reworking our itinerary knowing I may have to drop something, and will have to add a flight.

Here is what I have so far for a 35 day trip:
-arrive in Provence on Friday, June 26 ( still working on flying to Marseille, which has horrible flight times and layovers, or Paris then train to Avignon ), rent a car and stay in St. Remy for 4 nights. Day trips to Arles, Avignon, Marseille.
-drive to Nice ( 2 1/2 hrs. ) stay for 3 nights. Return car when we arrive. Use train to see Monaco and other Riviera sites tbd.
-fly to Venice, stay for 3 nights
-fast train to Florence ( 2hrs.), stay 3 nights. I tried to not have two busy cities one after the other but there is no alternative.
-drive to Val d'Orcia/Tuscany, stay 3 nights. Now we are up to 16 NIGHTS total.
-drive to Chiusi, return car and take fast train to Rome, stay 5 nights
-take train to Naples, then bus to Positano, stay 4 nights
-on Tues. July 21 bus back to Naples and fly to Berlin, leave at 15:25 & arrive at 17:50, stay 4 nights. We are now up to 29 NIGHTS total.
-train to Paris (8 1/2 hrs.) so we can see some of Germany's countryside. Arrive in Paris July 25 and stay 6 nights with one or two day trips.
-fly back home on Saturday, August 1 for a total of 35 NIGHTS.

I may have made some rookie assumptions and mistakes, so don't hold back any suggestions! Thanks in advance.

Abby5205

I know this may be a little late for your planning but if you have not finalized. Here is just something to consider as a whole. The places that you have listed for 3 nights gives you very little time to experience that town or city. You will lose generally half a day in just getting there plus time to get settled in.

ie The train from Venice to Florence, you need to get to the train station, the train leaves and arrives at what time? Then you need to get to your hotel/rental. Time lost just in travel. Then on the morning of the fourth day, you rent a car, 30 minutes, make your way out of Florence and head for Pienza (example), 2 hours by car, find your hotel/rental and check in, 30 minutes. It is lunch time, if you left Florence at 9am. On my first trip to Florence and to Monticchiello (near Pienza), I spent 7 days in each area and I was hungry for more. While I have not traveled in Europe as extensively as some on this site, I think you need at least 4 days at each site as a minimum. Just my opinion.

I am a believer in slow travel and try to stay a minimum of 7 days in each place. I really want to relax and not starting thinking about packing back up in 2 1/2 days. Again, just one man's opinion.

Good luck and enjoy your summer with your boys.

Abby5205

3Xmom....sorry, I left out your daughter. So enjoy your summer with your boys and daughter and of course your husband.