Fodor's Travel Talk Forums

Fodor's Travel Talk Forums (https://www.fodors.com/community/)
-   Europe (https://www.fodors.com/community/europe/)
-   -   Help for an opera neophyte? (https://www.fodors.com/community/europe/help-for-an-opera-neophyte-520313/)

Underhill Apr 11th, 2005 01:57 PM

For a first opera I would avoid Il Trovatore (much as I love it), as it's a bit static any of the others should be fine. Jenufa, IMO, doesn't work well for an introduction to opera, and of the two Mozart works I'd opt for Marriage of Figaro.

wombat7 Apr 11th, 2005 02:00 PM

Once you have chosen the oepra, why not get a copy to listen to before you go? If you don't want to invest in the CD see if your local library has a copy.

Grandma Apr 11th, 2005 03:30 PM

Bob Brown has excellent advice (as usual). My choices would be Traviata (if the soprano comes highly recommended), Don Giovanni (ditto the Don) and then Rigoletto (check out Gilda). We are long term Met subscribers and have a "Ballo" this week. Has never really excited me but Deborah Voight is scheduled to sing which makes it all worth while. Most important thing is to read the libretto or a synopsis. Ideally, the theatre would have some form of titles. At the Met in NYC they are in English... don't know what the more musically attuned Europeans do.

yk2004 Apr 12th, 2005 04:30 AM

I'll add my 2 cents:

I've seen all the operas you listed except Un Ballo.

Of the 6, my favorite is Rigoletto, followed by La Traviata.

Rigoletto is the only opera in your list that I cried at the end of the performance (yes, it is that good!)

caroline_edinburgh Apr 12th, 2005 04:50 AM

You'd probably enjoy any of them (although personally I hate Mozart !!).

But here's a consideration. As you probably know, most opera houses perform opera in the original language with surtitles or supertitles in the language of the country where it's being performed. But prompted by another recent post where someone had seen a Hungarian opera in Budapest with *English* surtitles, I did a little google and found this on the National Opera (again as I'm sure you know, one of the 3 opera houses in Prague) :-

"this season offers a fabulous mix of rare and familiar Czech works including Smetana’s highly patriotic Libuse and The Bartered Bride, Dvorak’s witty comedy Kate and the Devil and his wistful Rusalka, and Janacek’s Excursions of Mr Broucek and Cunning Little Vixen (all performed, incidentally, with English surtitles, in case your Czech is a little rusty)."

See http://www.travelforthearts.co.uk/ht...era_prague.htm, especially "http://www.travelforthearts.co.uk/ht...ague.htm"

111op Apr 12th, 2005 04:53 AM

You cried?!

This is not the opera I know well. I hate to give the plot away, but well, everyone reads the synopsis anyway. Did the hunchback (Rigoletto?) kill his daughter?

Anyway, opera is always a bit melodramatic and unbelievable for me. In "Traviata," Violetta sings "E Strano" (How strange) a couple of times. In the final act, she sings this, gets up and sings some more and then collapses on stage.

You've to be a pretty strong woman to be able to get up from a dying state to sing. :-)

Sometimes I want to laugh.

Barb_in_Ga Apr 12th, 2005 04:56 AM

turnip--you have received excellent advise regarding your choice from several posters. The key to everthing is to just be sure you do go, and don't let your inexperience or lack of depth in opera prevent a wonderful experience. I had only seen one opera in person when I began my European travels several years ago, but I adore theater and music, so wanted to experience opera in some of the cities where I have traveled. I have not been fortunate enough to see an opera on every trip, but my experience has included "The Barber of Seville" in London(sung in English by the ENO), "Barber" sung in Italian in Rome in a tiny theater, and "Barber" in Paris, sung in Italian with French titles. What a hoot to see 3 such different productions of the same piece! I see that New York City Opera is doing "Barber" this year--perhaps I should see yet another variation. Whichever you choose, enjoy the total experience--the music, the setting, and observing the people who attend. Have fun!

eliztrav Apr 12th, 2005 04:58 AM

I remember reading on the MET Guild's chat site (standing room) someone's account of a trip to Prague and environs and attending many operas. If you have access to the site, you might want to check it out. It was a multi post travelogue of their trip. If you get on the site and ask someone to tell you how to find that series of posts, someone there will pull it up for you. A friendly bunch. And, you might get some tips on travel to that area at the same time. I think you navigate to "Opera News" or the Guild to get to it.
http://www.metoperafamily.org

Also, there's a book, Imagining Don Giovanni" by Anthony Rudel (son of Viennese conductor Julius Rudel) that you might find interesting before your trip to Prague. Fictionalized tale based on some historical facts that weaves about a supposed meeting between Casanova and Mozart around the time of Don Giovanni. Amazon has the details in their listing.

Have a great trip!

wanderlust5 Apr 12th, 2005 07:17 AM

111op: Lots of people cry at operas. And laugh too. That is what opera is for. It is supposed to move our very souls, which it often does. If you find yourself laughing at the most dramatic parts, such as a dying woman using all of her strength to express herself one last time, then opera probably isn't your bag. I am surprised you waste your time with it if that is how you feel. And "E Strano" doesn't mean How Strange. The E has an accent and it means "It is Strange". Nuances and subtleties can make all the difference in the world when trying to understand the human condition.

Patrick Apr 12th, 2005 07:22 AM

111op, wanderlust is right. Opera is NOT for you. Please stay away or post where you will be sitting so the rest of us can avoid you.
Nothing wrong with your opinion, but most of us don't expect opera to be believable.

Sort of like someone who thinks a bunch of men throwing and kicking an odd shaped ball on a big field is silly, going to a football game and then sitting there saying "this is so lame."

jahoulih Apr 12th, 2005 07:31 AM

I enjoy opera, but I have a certain sympathy for 111op's point of view. It is a bit hard - though not impossible, if the performance is well done - to suspend disbelief when a woman supposedly dying of tuberculosis (but generally looking quite robust and well-nourished) has the strength to belt away at the top of her lungs for ten minutes.

I can't help thinking of Oscar Wilde's comment on Dickens' "Old Curiosity Shop": "Only a man with a heart of stone could read the death of Little Nell without laughing."

laverendrye Apr 12th, 2005 07:57 AM

Well, as W.H. Auden once remarked, "No good opera plot can be sensible, for people do not sing when they are feeling sensible."

111op Apr 12th, 2005 08:00 AM

Well, I meant to be provocative. Perhaps it's calculated condescension, but I don't think that my post is anywhere as vehement as the responses.

For example, I wrote: "Sometimes I want to laugh." And the plots of opera are a bit ridiculous. My favorite line to ridicule is still "My name is Mimi, but they call me Lucia." My reaction is -- ok, your name is Mimi, then why do they call you Lucia? :-)

It just amazes me that seemingly intelligent people can't seem to take a different point of view. But that's nothing new.

And no, I don't stay away from something I don't appreciate wholly. I think that only closed-minded people do that.

I listen to opera so that I can learn to appreciate it. I wholly admit that it's a blind spot, but what's wrong with it? That doesn't stop me from learning about it or from going to performances. I don't avoid Wagner because it's deemed difficult. I've stood through a complete performance of "Tristan." I'm not quite ready to tackle "The Ring," but that doesn't mean that I can't talk about opera.

But honestly, if I find it a waste of time, I don't think that I would do it. I'm not that masochistic.


111op Apr 12th, 2005 08:10 AM

And, by the way, the fact that I've not given away my Callas recordings is saying something.

As divided as people are about her singing, her famous recordings are justly famous. I urge everyone with an interest in opera (and if you've an interest in opera, you'll know this) to get her 1953 Tosca, her 1955 (?) Berlin Lucia and one of her Traviatas (I've a live one from 1956).

Though I don't completely like her singing either, I must admit that her singing gives me goose bumps. Such drama and power, and infinitely nuanced.

Her mad scene in Lucia is truly tortured (Lucia has just killed her newly wed husband).

laverendrye Apr 12th, 2005 08:45 AM

"My favorite line to ridicule is still "My name is Mimi, but they call me Lucia." My reaction is -- ok, your name is Mimi, then why do they call you Lucia?"

111op. You have things backward, and the lyrics do make sense.

"Si, mi chiamo Mimi
Ma il mio nome è Lucia.È

(Yes, they call me Mimi, but my real name's Lucia)

Then later:

"Mi chiamo Mimi.
Il perchè non so."

(They call me Mimi. I don't know why.)

You could find many more lines in opera worthy of ridicule than this one.

111op Apr 12th, 2005 08:54 AM

Sorry, I did get the same names mixed up. Yes, I know that her aria starts with "Mi chiamano Mimi" (just wasn't thinking straight).

By the way -- it's mi chiamano Mimi -- see

http://www.everynote.com/opera.show/5671.note

(not chiamo Mimi -- but I won't split hairs with you)

But in the same opera, I crack up when I hear "Che chelida manina." I should use this line on someone. Let me warm your hands. Oh, by the way, you can't find your keys? Let me try and find them with you.

You get the idea.

Of course, there're many lines worthy of ridicule, and I guess that's sort of my point.

And why should no one sleep until Turandot knows Calaf's name? And if she doesn't chop off her suitors' heads if they can't solve her riddles, then there'll be no "Turandot." :-)



laverendrye Apr 12th, 2005 09:01 AM

111op: Sorry, typo on the "chiamano".

Without beating a dead horse, I think we're agreed that many plots and lyrics in opera are ridiculous. For me, however, it's the music that makes it attractive, regardless of the words.

111op Apr 12th, 2005 09:06 AM

I guess that's the bit I can't appreciate completely -- and I freely admit my blind spot for vocal music.

But apart from the beauty of the music, there're other things to admire -- the technical facility of the singers, for example. I know that I can't hit 9 (?) high Cs in Fille du Regiment or do a heart-wrenching Lucia a la Callas (it's not even my voice range).

But some day I'll try to do a Sempre Libera or Musetta's Waltz in a lower register. :-)

cyberUK Apr 12th, 2005 09:44 AM

HI Turnip,
I din't read all of the previous posts, so if this was mentioned, please excuse my Repetition.

Don Giovanni is the greatest opera ever written.

See that one

turnip Apr 12th, 2005 01:43 PM

Wow, once again the Fodor's faithful come through in spades. Thanks to all of you for your input. A special thanks to Bob Brown for his insight.

I've decided to take your suggestions and I've checked out the Marriage of Figaro & Il Traviata from my local library. If neither of those tickles my fancy I'll just keep moving down the list.

Thanks again for your help all. Cheers, the turnip


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:10 AM.