odie1

I received such wonderful information from the Fodorites on two previous trips to Ireland and France (for which I did post trip reports) so I am asking for your knowledgeable help,yet once again.

I have read back 200 threads and was ale to find many answers to questions that I had but I am still left with a few...

My husband, five year old daughter and myself will be flying from JFK to LHR, landing May 22 at 6:30 AM. I have a car reserved from just airports(thanks to previous posts) to take us to County Hall Marriott.
We will only have carry on luggage so I am assuming we will probably make it to the hotel around 8:30-9:00 AM.

Just a little info, we get into NYC quite often so museums, theater, zoo are not our main attractions. Our daughter, although five, is well traveled and loves to explore.

I have a few must-sees and then some other things put in as well, but we don't want to be stuck to a schedule. If we pass a pub that looks friendly and inviting, we'd like to go in for a bite to eat and a few good ales, and not feel like we are blowing our schedule.

My itinerary so far:

May 22, Thursday:
-arrive hotel @9 AM
-wander around Southbank and the Strand, looking for a nice place (ie great food) for lunch (it will be my birthday)
-take Hop on Hop off bus (are those the big red ones?)
-Maybe Regent's Park

May 23, Friday:
-9 AM Tower, crown jewels first, followed by audio tour only
-walk across Tower Bridge (Can we go up for the view or do we have to do a whole tour-couldn't figure this one out?)
-Lunch at Borough Market
-Walk or Boat to Bankside Pier?
-St Paul's Cathedral-maybe a climb to the top

May 24, Saturday:
-walk past Parliament, Big Ben
-Westminster Abbey (@ 1 hr)
-Royal Mews (@ 45 mins)
-walk past Buckingham Palace (closed to tours)
-through ST James Park (lunch at Inn the Park)
-Trafalgar square
-past horse guards
-War Rooms (if time allows)

May 25, Sunday:
-Windsor Castle (Haven't figured out any of the logistics for this yet, so if anyone has any input that would be great)
-Husband's Birthday so a great place for dinner would be nice

May 26, Monday:
-Hampton Court or maybe Greenwich?
(Thoughts would be greatly appreciated. My Husband is a huge Horatio Nelson fan, so I thought the Maritime Museum in Greenwich might be nice for him)

May 27, Tuesday:
-Open until noon

I know May 26 is a bank holiday (what areas should we definitely avoid? and the 22-24 is the Chelsea Flower show, so stay out of Chelsea (BTW, is the flower show worth a visit or will it just be absolutely mobbed with people?)
We are definitely riding the Eye, I am going to watch the weather to decide the day.

Also, forgive me if I have this wrong, I think we will get the 7 day Travel card loaded for zones 1 and 2 on an Oyster Card-I hope to travel most by bus so we don't miss the sights-does that make sense?

So besides the above questions, I have few more:
-My daughter loves castles, palaces, princesses, etc- she loved all the castles in Ireland, even the shells of ones so with that said...we can't go into Buckingham or Westminster Palace, is Kensington worth a visit, or since we are planning to go to Windsor Castle, that should take care of that area, and on that note would going to Hampton Court be very similar to Windsor?
-I know I said Museums aren't our priority but can you reccommend a small manageable museum with lavish art, furniture, etc., that we could use as an introduction to museums for our daughter?
-We are foodies, so we definitely enjoy yummy food. Would much rather pay more for a great meal, then less for an easily forgettable one. We don't really care for traditional pub grub. So any restaurants that you can recommend as your favorites would be great. (I'd like to keep dinner to less than $250 total). Any great restaurants in Chinatown for duck or dim sum as well?

Thanks so much for all your help.

annettetx

I have some answers that will hopefully be helpful....

janisj talked about views of London and getting to the top of Tower Bridge without taking the whole tour here:
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2

I don't think Kensington Palace is a huge draw for a 5-year-old (we've taken our kids to London several times...my daughter was 5 the first time we went). But the Princess Diana playground in Kensington Gardens is great!
Here's more info about it:
http://tinyurl.com/2nl2tp

We also enjoyed Hampton Court Palace when the kids were little -- they have great "Family Trails" with clues to look for as you go through the Palace. The maze is also great fun.

Having said that, Greenwich is wonderful as well...the Maritime Museum has a wonderful, hand-on children's area that we really enjoyed. Then there is an entire gallery devoted to Lord Nelson, which your husband should enjoy.

As for other museums, I really like the British Galleries at the V&A, which traces British design and art from 1500-1900. I thought the exhibit was fabulous, and there were several hands on things to do throughout the exhibit (ie: try on Elizabethan collars, etc). It's not small, but since it's free, you won't feel guilty if you don't see absolutely everything.

Also near the V&A is one of our favorite restaurants...Daquise. It's a Polish restaurant, and very much a part of the neighborhood -- not touristy or fancy.

Enjoy!

odie1

annettetx:

Thanks for the quick reply. Your link didn't take me to that thread, but I believe I read it. Was that the one that someone said you could tell the person you had already done the experience and just wanted to go and see the view? (I will try and find the thread you are talking about)

I have read mixed reviews about Kensington Palace. I thought maybe the Royal Dress Collection might be intriguing for our daughter (who loves to dress up) and the idea of being in a real palace, but again, since we have so little time I dont want to do anything ho-hum either. I have the playground down on my list, but I don't know if we would make a special trip over there just to go to the playground.

In your opinion, if we are going to Windsor Castle one day, would you choose the second day to go to Greenwich, Hampton Court, or just a day to stay in London and explore some of the other areas, like St James or Knotting Hill?

I have read excellent things about the V and A museum, and also have it down, definitely something to do if we encounter rainy weather. Thanks for the restaurant rec.

I should have mentioned as well, if anyone has any comments, thoughts, etc as to my itinerary, I am all ears!

Thanks again

nona1

To be honest, if I were going to the Tower of London I wouldn't then spend a day visiting Windsor Castle as well.

If you cut Windsor Castle you could do both Greenwich and Hampton Court Palace. Hampton Court would satisfy your daughters desire for a palace (it has some extremely grand 'palacey' rooms) and it's a good place for kids. Lots of grounds to run around and they love the maze. You can take a picnic in with you if you like - or go find one of the pubs on the riverfront for lunch.

janisj

Yes - if you either tell the folks at the Tower Bridge Experience that you have done it before - or just that you flat out don't have time for the whole exhibit - they will let you bypass the rest. You would still have to pay the full entrance charge though. Now, I have done this twice taking different friends to the top w/o any problems or second looks. But I suppose you could get a difficult attendant who wouldn't allow it - but like I said I've done it twice w/o any problems at all.

As for comparing Kens Palace, Windsor, Hampton Court - apples/oranges/pears. All are totally different. For a young child I would say Kens Palace would be the least important. But the next door playground is just about a must for a 5 yo. The clothing at the V&A is better for kids than the dresses at the palace, and it is free.

HCP has the amazing Medieval Kitchens that kids really enjoy, plus staff and guides dressed in historic costumes. And kids really love the maze.

Windsor's State rooms might be overwhelming for her - or she might REALLY love them.

Queen Mary's Doll House would be a must a Windsor - but it gets very crowded and her being so little it might be hard for her to see much - especially on the upper floors.

If it were me I'd take her to Hampton Court 1st.

Another museum to consider is the Natural History - especially if she is at all into dinosaurs.

The London Transport museum is great (in Covent Garden). I haven't been there since it re-opened after being remodeled but kids (and most adults) enjoy it. If she is at all "mechanical" or likes trains/buses it would be a good choice - plus there are all teh buskers/street performers all around covent garden.

janisj

Meant to add - there is a free observation deck at the OXO Tower that gives great views up/down river and across to St Pauls.

KayF

Hi, just a few thoughts -

If I was only choosing one, I'd choose Hampton Court first, then Windsor, then Kensington Palace. We took the train to Hampton Court, from Waterloo I think, and spent the whole day there. There is a lot to see and do, we loved it. I found Kensington Palace a little disappointing, it didn't seem very grand to me.

For restaurants, you could check www.squaremeal.co.uk You can click on what type of food you want and also the area you want to eat in and it will give you a list.

Some of your days seem awfully crowded to me but I know we have done a lot while in overseas cities. Just be aware you might not get everything done on your list! There is a lot to see at the Tower, we spent the whole day there as well. Not sure if you aware but you can walk across Tower Bridge (next to where the cars go) for free but you won't get the same view as if you were up high. There are lots of restaurants along the Thames, right next to Tower Bridge, on the other side of the river to the Tower. You could have lunch there with a fabulous view of Tower Bridge.

I haven't actually been here, it's on my list, but you could try the Sir John Soane Museum in Lincoln's Inn Fields in London. It's free and I've had a few people recommend it. Closed Sunday and Monday.
http://www.soane.org/

Another idea for a museum is The Wallace Collection, free to enter, if you look at the website it shows you pictures of some of the rooms so you can get a feel for what you would see.
http://www.wallacecollection.org/

Hope you have a wonderful trip.
Kay

janisj

For your very best photo op/view of Tower Bridge - walk across the street from the Tower to the Tower Hotel/St Katharine's Dock (there are steps that take you down under the bridge to avoid the traffic on Tower Bridge Road)

In front of the hotel is a Mermaid/Dolphin fountain at the edge of the river w/ the bridge in the background.

For a casual place to eat near the Tower/bridge - the Dickens Inn in St Katharine's Dock is good - a flower covered pub/restaurant on the marina w/ kid friendly menu. Not gourmet but just a great setting.

lennyba

I'll second the recommendation of the Greenwich Maritime Museum. If you want to rearrange your schedule a bit, one day you could do the Tower in the morning, then catch a boat at the pier there down to Greenwich (takes less than an hour) and spend the afternoon. Return via DLR in the evening.

odie1

Wow, thanks for all the responses.

nona1-I am definitely reconsidering based on the replies I have gooten so far and am thinking about HC and Greenwich in one day.

janisj-I had read about the OXO tower and since we will definitely ride the eye, I think I will skip going into Tower Bridge.

She has been to the Natural History Museum in NY twice as well as the Yale Peabody once so that's why I didn't have it on my list. Transportation isn't high on our lists either but it sounds interesting and I will look into it further.

Thanks for the recs on the photo ops-I enjoy photography and am always in search of the best vantage point. The pub sounds great. Our daughter will pretty much eat what we eat so a kid's menu isn't a must, but the location sounds lovely. Would you say the food is good? but I also wanted to see Borough Market and thought that might be neat for lunch as well.

lennyba- My husband would really enjoy the Maritime museum, as I am sure my daughter and I would as well. If we go there on Sat instead of to Windsor Castle, that's his b-day, so it would ne nice for him.

If we do HC and Greenwich what do you think is the best way to get there, boat, DLR, combo? Which would you do first?

Fodorites are the best. I am always telling my friends to check these boards before they plan their trips!

janisj

&quot;<i>thinking about HC and Greenwich in one day</i>&quot;

Not a great plan IMO. One is at the far west side of London and the other is at the far east side. Travel between the two would take more than an hour (and <b>HOURS</b> if you took boats)

The Tower and Greenwich is definitely doable on the same day - but not HCP and Greenwich.

Re Borough Market for lunch -- it is great, but do realize it can get very VERY crowded, especially on a nice day. It might be overwhelming for a little person. I am short (but a LOT bigger than a 5 yo ) and the crowds in Borough Mkt can make it really difficult for me to see things. It can be pretty unsettling.

yk

&lt; -I know I said Museums aren't our priority but can you reccommend a small manageable museum with lavish art, furniture, etc., that we could use as an introduction to museums for our daughter? &gt;

Second vote for Wallace Collection.

As for restaurants, I like Tom's Kitchen.
http://www.tomskitchen.co.uk/

noe847

It looks like you have done your homework, odie1! (And a trip report is not a required payback, but it is really really welcomed!)

I just have a few comments to add to the excellent advice you have received:

I'm not sure why you are doing an audio tour only of the Tower. The Yeoman Warder tour is really good. I've heard these guys three times and they are quite dynamic and informative and usually make sure to engage the smaller tour members. The groups can be large, but the Beefeaters are used to it - they deal with it every day. Their voices and personalities project very well. The tour is an hour and doesn't cover much physical ground, so you still will get to explore the rest on your own. Before I went, I didn't really realize just how much/many castle and palace buildings are in the complex. So leave plenty of time to satisfy your castle loving daughter!

I grew up outside NYC and visited my parents in CT with my daughters often. I'd skip the Natural History museum, but definitely consider the V&amp;A. It bears some resemblance to parts of the Met - the objects, furniture and artifacts (the paintings are mostly in the National Gallery). You could just choose the galleries you want to see and miss the rest. That's what we did.

Another museum to consider is the Tate Modern, although it doesn't meet your goal of small, manageable, lavish or furniture! It would be an interesting intro to modern art in a spiffy adaptive reuse of an old power plant.

My husband is hugely into naval and maritime things, and he was actually disappointed in the Greenwich Maritime museum - he thought the exhibits were geared too young. His favorite thing in Greenwich was the Queen's House, which has all of the marine art. He gives high marks to the Cabinet War Rooms/Churchill Museum and the Imperial War Museum (he visits it each time he gets to London).

It looks as though you are planning to see Westminster Abbey in an hour? That seems a bit ambitious/rushed - I'd leave 90 minutes for a bare bones visit.

I think that some pubs, or pubs at some times of day, do not allow minors, so you might want to check that when you see one that is enticing.

In order to miss out on the crowds at the Borough Market, you could visit before the lunchtime rush, enjoy some tastes and purchase food for a picnic to enjoy in a park or along the river. We went one Friday afternoon late and it was quite manageable. We had a pre-theatre picnic with our food purchases and then went out for dessert after the theatre. One thing to note: the toasted cheese/raclette stand is only at Borough Market on Saturdays, or at least that was true last year. Don't miss Neal's Yard Dairy, either at its location adjacent to Borough Market or near Covent Garden.

At Inn the Park, I would consider reservations for breakfast (before 10, iirc) as opposed to lunch. You could even go on your arrival day, or rearrange the order of your sights on the Saturday. We did lunch there, as we overslept the day we were planning to do breakfast. The lunch was quite good, but the breakfast menu looks amazing to me. (Of course, the menus are online and you may have already checked it all out.) There were lots of families with small children there and they have a fairly sophisticated nursery food menu. Inn the Park is VERY close to the Cabinet War Rooms.

ElendilPickle

We really enjoyed the Cabinet War Rooms and the National Maritime Museum. I'm a big Patrick O'Brian fan, so that was a lot of fun for me. Be sure to go up to the Royal Observatory as well.

Lee Ann

annettetx

I'll second the recommendation to not try for Greenwich and Hampton Court Palace in a day. Each one of them could easily take the better part of a day.

If you go to Greenwich, we like the Trafalgar Tavern. It is literally right on the water. If you get a table next to a window, your daughter might enjoy looking out at the River Thames during the meal.

nona1

You can't really do Hampton Court and Greenwich in one day. Too far apart and both deserve more than a couple of hours. Go to Hampton Court on the day you were planning to go to Windsor.

Cholmondley_Warner

be prepared to shift your shedule around a bit for the weather.

Both HC and Greenwich are miles better if you have the weather as much of the best stuff is outside.

Most of the pubs in Greenwich are kid friendly (in fact the only two I know that won't allow children under any circumstances are the Rose and Crown and the Powder Monkey - which are both gay bars).

If you want any specifics on Greenwich I'll try to help (I work for Greenwich).

odie1

Thanks everybody,

janisj-
-If I were to try and do Tower and Greenwich in one day, I would have to skip St Paul's on that day?
-I will only do HC and not go to Windsor.
-Might have to rethink Borough Market as well.

yk-
-Wallace collection is definitely looking like the museum for us. It seems, according to my map, that it isn't very close to any other sights, so is the area that it is in good for strolling, window shopping, pubs, etc.?
-Thanks for the rec on Tom's Kitchen. It looks just perfect but I think I will stay away until the Flower show is over.

noe847-
-I have tried to do research as I don't want to waste people's time asking the same questions over and over and the TRs are a way of giving back. I don;t just want to be a taker!
-About the Tower tour, I was worried as I had read in a few previous posts that the Yeoman get pretty graphic about murders, etc. Our daughter is VERY sensitive to stuff like that. So that's why I hadn't planned on it. Your thoughts since you have done it 3 times? I also wasn't aware (admit that I haven't fully read the section about Tower in my Michelin Guide yet) about there being castles, etc in the compound. That would explain nona1's thought about also doing Windsor.
-I will add some more time for Westminster.
-I was wondering about the pubs. Anybody know the answer to that? We certainly wouldn't be there late in the evening, pretty much daytime, early evening. In Ireland, we never encountered any problems with taking our daughter in, we even stayed on one evening to hear the traditional music. Our daughter LOVES music of all kind (Although when she heard Pavarotti on TV she said he was the worst singer she had ever heard...LOL...I guess she isn't ready to be a music critic anytime soon).
-Neal's Yard Dairy is on my list.
-The location for the Inn and the Cabinet War rooms are good to know also

ElendilPickle-
-I guess I should have clarified that my husband is a huge O'Brian and Hornblower fan, so that sort of transfers to being a Nelson fan.

nona1-
-I misunderstood your original post. I though you were saying to do Greenwich and HC in one day. Now I see you were saying to do both of those instead of WC.

Cholmondley-
-I have a list going for weather related activities just in case. I had read and realized that HC and Greenwich are better on sunny days, so we might have to skip them if the day they are planned it pours. Would doing HC on a Sun or Bank Holiday be better?

Thanks again, I will redo my itinerary and repost.

yk

hi odie-

The Wallace Collection is in the Marylebone neighborhood and has some interesting streets around (such as St Christopher's Place, Marylebone Lane etc). I suppose you can head there on your departure day (since you mentioned you are free until 12noon)?

Alternatively, you can take the Old Marylebone Walk with the London Walks company (Sat at 2pm). The walk takes you around that neighborhood but also stops in the Wallace Collection for a quick look.

This is what I wrote about the Wallace Collection on my previous trip (sept 07)
-----------------------
This was my first time visiting the Wallace Collection. Admission is free. One can get an audioguide, but that really isn't necessary. Each room has information leaflets on the highlights. I was very surprised by how rich the collection is. I also did not realize the crux of the collection is French (age of the French Revolution). Wallace was the illegitimate son of the 4th Marquess of Hertford. Several generations of the marquesses had been collecting lots of art, and the 4th Marquess lived in Paris during the time of the French Revolution. A lot of furniture, paintings, porcelain went on sale after the revolt and the marquess bought lots of it. Wallace eventually inherited the collection and brought it back to London.

Some of the highlights include
~ Many beautiful sets of S&egrave;vres porcelain (It boasts the finest museum collection in the world. I think the best collection is in the Queen's collection.)
~ French Rococco paintings by Boucher and Fragonard
~ Furniture used to belong to Louis XV and Marie-Antonette; and also 'Boulle' marquetry furniture
~ Great collection of Dutch paintings, including Rembrandt's Titus, and the most famous painting there - The Laughing Cavalier by Frans Hals.

Wallace's widow bequeathed the collection to the nation, but with the terms that &quot;nothing may be added to it or taken away.&quot; Hence, one has to travel to the museum to see its art as nothing are allowed to go on loan.
http://www.wallacecollection.org

I ate lunch at the new Wallace Restaurant. It is in the enclosed courtyard and a beautiful setting. One-half of the courtyard is for dining a la carte. The other half is for a cheaper &quot;light fare.&quot; Since I was in a hurry, I went for the light fare.

The menu is quite french, to go along with the collection. I ordered a plate of melon and prosciutto. I think this is the only non-French dish on the menu. Lunch was quite expensive at &pound;11. The service was also not the best. The waitstaff is nice, but terribly understaffed.

PatrickLondon

I'm not entirely sure the Wallace Collection would be suitable as a gentle introduction for a small girl. It's very old-school in its presentation (lots and lots of pictures on the wall, some fancy furniture and an impression collection of armour). There are some famous paintings that might start a conversation (the Laughing Cavalier, Fragonard's Swing). But the V&amp;A has so many different sorts of things of all kinds, costumes, musical instruments, all sorts of decorative arts, that there's more variety to play with, as it were:
http://www.vam.ac.uk/activ_events/families/index.html
http://www.wallacecollection.org/vis...easneakpreview