Has anyone married overseas in Italy or Greece?
Apr 4th, 2016, 11:43 PM
#21
"You can't buy a stamp in an Italian post office in 43 minutes."
Now that chimes exactly with my experience. Last time in Ferrara , after Mrs B insisted on sending a card, we spent 55 minutes holding our little queuing piece of paper (I hadn't used one of those since the old Yugoslavia) until we finally exchanged it for a small piece of paper that we could stick on a card.
I love Italy, but it is a country of "civil servants", and you can see why they have such massive unemployment.
Now that chimes exactly with my experience. Last time in Ferrara , after Mrs B insisted on sending a card, we spent 55 minutes holding our little queuing piece of paper (I hadn't used one of those since the old Yugoslavia) until we finally exchanged it for a small piece of paper that we could stick on a card.
I love Italy, but it is a country of "civil servants", and you can see why they have such massive unemployment.
Apr 5th, 2016, 12:10 AM
#22
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<<the world over, most communities that issue legal marriage documents take a great deal of interest in making sure that foreigners coming into their community to get married are not already married elsewhere.>>
Our commune of St-Cirq took absolutely no interest in the fact that we were already married in the USA, and happily married us in a legal, formal, civil ceremony at the mairie's office last October.
Our commune of St-Cirq took absolutely no interest in the fact that we were already married in the USA, and happily married us in a legal, formal, civil ceremony at the mairie's office last October.
Apr 5th, 2016, 12:49 AM
#23
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Stamps are sold in a tabacchi in Italy. That is the place to buy them. Of course you will need to get in line at the post office, where people pay their taxes, etc. At post offices in the US you will also wait 45 minutes to buy a stamp if you go to the post office to buy one from a postal clerk.
My comments about marriage were about foreigners wishing to marry in a country where they are not residents. Here are the rules for residents of foreign countries marrying in France (which are different than for residents of France, which St Cirq in other posts claims to be, but that might be hot air).
http://www.expatica.com/fr/family-es...ce_101112.html
My comments about marriage were about foreigners wishing to marry in a country where they are not residents. Here are the rules for residents of foreign countries marrying in France (which are different than for residents of France, which St Cirq in other posts claims to be, but that might be hot air).
http://www.expatica.com/fr/family-es...ce_101112.html
Apr 5th, 2016, 01:17 AM
#24
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None of this helps with the problem of an expensive spouse or fiancee visa for dutyfree's daughter. She needs a spouse visa to be able to settle in the UK with her new husband.
Where they get married is irrelevant.
It would almost be easier for them to settle in the US if her husband to be could find a job there.
Someone I know went through this. They married in the US and it took months before his wife could join him in the UK. He spent a fortune flying out to New York nearly every weekend to be with her. His job was such that he couldn't find work in the US.
Where they get married is irrelevant.
It would almost be easier for them to settle in the US if her husband to be could find a job there.
Someone I know went through this. They married in the US and it took months before his wife could join him in the UK. He spent a fortune flying out to New York nearly every weekend to be with her. His job was such that he couldn't find work in the US.
Apr 5th, 2016, 02:17 AM
#25
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You are right, hetismj2, and I think that recently the law has gotten even worse for the situation of non-UK citizen spouses living in the UK, even spouses who have been married for a long time and have children together.
But at least St Cirq has solved the problem for every American -- even every bigamist -- looking to get married in Europe. You just show up at the commune where she says she lives, walk in the door and -- viola! You'll get a ceremony complete with legal marriage certificate in French. Brilliant advice for dukey (or was there some other motive?)
But at least St Cirq has solved the problem for every American -- even every bigamist -- looking to get married in Europe. You just show up at the commune where she says she lives, walk in the door and -- viola! You'll get a ceremony complete with legal marriage certificate in French. Brilliant advice for dukey (or was there some other motive?)
Apr 5th, 2016, 02:42 AM
#27
on the other hand I had to buy a train ticket in Denmark last summer and I discovered I could buy it in the supermarket, the bar, the restaurant and the dry cleaners near the station, but not in the station, which had closed its ticket office due to lack of demand.
Apr 5th, 2016, 02:57 AM
#28
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You don't just show up at the mairie and walk in the door - there is ample paperwork to be filed well in advance, most of it based on traductions apostillés of your original marriage documents plus birth certificates, divorce certificates, death certificates, etc., and ample paperwork to be displayed in advance on the mairie's bulletin board and website for at least a month before the wedding.
And it's voilà, not viola. It's not a musical instrument.
You have no clue, sandra, as usual. Just posturing and pretending to be superior.
And it's voilà, not viola. It's not a musical instrument.
You have no clue, sandra, as usual. Just posturing and pretending to be superior.
Apr 5th, 2016, 04:07 AM
#29
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As kybourbon mentioned, my wedding in Italy was in 1989, but I think the paperwork still works the same way. We got information from the U.S. State Department on the documents necessary. We also had friends in Italy who verified the information for us. We did not hire a wedding planner.
Document 1) We had to get a document here in the United States from the Italian consulate. I forget its name, but basically it states that the two parties are allowed to marry, that they are not married to anyone else, that they are not leaving children behind. You must bring 4 friends with you as witnesses to this document. (Since I live in NYC there was a consulate close at hand. Even Italians who marry in Italy must get this document from their local authorities.)
Document 2) We obtained Italian translations of our birth certificates. We were told we would need these though I'm not sure that anyone ever really did use them.
Document 3) We took these documents to a U.S. consulate in Italy. We chose Milan since we planned to wed in Venice, so Milan was the closest. (In the U.S., we had been told we would need two witnesses at the consulate, so we had two friends, Italian nationals, come along--and it ended up their presence was unnecessary. Fortunately, since they are Italian they understood the system of bureaucracy and shrugged it off.)
The U.S. consulate generated a form (sorry, again the name escapes me) that then had to be notarized by the Italian Prefettura. We'd heard horror stories about trying to align opening and closing times--Apply for form at U.S. consulate in morning, return for form in afternoon; oh joy, now Prefettura is closed for the day and we must wait till the next day. We'd also heard horror stories about chasing down the correct marcobolli, official stamps needed for the documents--not always available at every tabacchi. Happily, we were told that the notarization could take place in Venice, so we didn't have an unplanned overnight in Milan.
Document 4) We went to Venice two days ahead, got our notarization at the prefettura, and then took all the documents to the marriage bureau for a marriage license. The Venice Prefettura had the correct marcobolli on hand, so no chasing to tabacchi for stamps and trying to return before closing hours. Since we were foreigners, there was no need to post banns and no residency requirements.
Two days later we were married in the town hall by an official magistrate (in ceremonial sash), in the City Council room overlooking the Grand Canal. (I had called the Venice marriage bureau 4 months earlier to reserve our wedding time. We had guests coming from the U.S. and wanted to give them a definite day and time.) We did not need a translator, because the woman (Sra Fuccillo) then at the marriage bureau spoke English. The magistrate said his part in Italian, and then Sra Fuccillo would read the English translation of the same section. Most of my guests had trouble understanding her heavily accented English, but I had no problem.
We were issued a marriage license on a form that was in four different languages. We paid for an extra copy of the license, since we figured it might be difficult to obtain another copy if needed later.
This may sound involved, and it was much more involved than a city hall wedding in my hometown of NYC--see nytraveler's post. But it was a lot less involved and costly than planning a large wedding in NYC.
At that time, costs in general in Italy were dramatically lower than now and the wedding ceremony in Venice fee and forms totalled about $125. Then it was still unusual for foreigners to head to Italy for a wedding. Now I understand the fees are much, much higher and may be more involved to schedule a wedding.
We did not make any other special plans—no big reception, no photographers—invited our families, a total of 14 people, to attend the ceremony and then join us for lunch at a favorite restaurant.
Document 1) We had to get a document here in the United States from the Italian consulate. I forget its name, but basically it states that the two parties are allowed to marry, that they are not married to anyone else, that they are not leaving children behind. You must bring 4 friends with you as witnesses to this document. (Since I live in NYC there was a consulate close at hand. Even Italians who marry in Italy must get this document from their local authorities.)
Document 2) We obtained Italian translations of our birth certificates. We were told we would need these though I'm not sure that anyone ever really did use them.
Document 3) We took these documents to a U.S. consulate in Italy. We chose Milan since we planned to wed in Venice, so Milan was the closest. (In the U.S., we had been told we would need two witnesses at the consulate, so we had two friends, Italian nationals, come along--and it ended up their presence was unnecessary. Fortunately, since they are Italian they understood the system of bureaucracy and shrugged it off.)
The U.S. consulate generated a form (sorry, again the name escapes me) that then had to be notarized by the Italian Prefettura. We'd heard horror stories about trying to align opening and closing times--Apply for form at U.S. consulate in morning, return for form in afternoon; oh joy, now Prefettura is closed for the day and we must wait till the next day. We'd also heard horror stories about chasing down the correct marcobolli, official stamps needed for the documents--not always available at every tabacchi. Happily, we were told that the notarization could take place in Venice, so we didn't have an unplanned overnight in Milan.
Document 4) We went to Venice two days ahead, got our notarization at the prefettura, and then took all the documents to the marriage bureau for a marriage license. The Venice Prefettura had the correct marcobolli on hand, so no chasing to tabacchi for stamps and trying to return before closing hours. Since we were foreigners, there was no need to post banns and no residency requirements.
Two days later we were married in the town hall by an official magistrate (in ceremonial sash), in the City Council room overlooking the Grand Canal. (I had called the Venice marriage bureau 4 months earlier to reserve our wedding time. We had guests coming from the U.S. and wanted to give them a definite day and time.) We did not need a translator, because the woman (Sra Fuccillo) then at the marriage bureau spoke English. The magistrate said his part in Italian, and then Sra Fuccillo would read the English translation of the same section. Most of my guests had trouble understanding her heavily accented English, but I had no problem.
We were issued a marriage license on a form that was in four different languages. We paid for an extra copy of the license, since we figured it might be difficult to obtain another copy if needed later.
This may sound involved, and it was much more involved than a city hall wedding in my hometown of NYC--see nytraveler's post. But it was a lot less involved and costly than planning a large wedding in NYC.
At that time, costs in general in Italy were dramatically lower than now and the wedding ceremony in Venice fee and forms totalled about $125. Then it was still unusual for foreigners to head to Italy for a wedding. Now I understand the fees are much, much higher and may be more involved to schedule a wedding.
We did not make any other special plans—no big reception, no photographers—invited our families, a total of 14 people, to attend the ceremony and then join us for lunch at a favorite restaurant.
Apr 5th, 2016, 11:23 PM
#30
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Hi dutyfree......my DD was married in Italy several years ago....in Venice. It was just lovely. We worked with a planner........could not have done it without them. The name of the company was Weddings in Italy by Regency.
They advised on everything and made most of the arrangements, starting with legalities and ending with best place to buy flowers, etc.
These agencies do this for a living and are very aware of what they have to do to make this happen. They were invaluable to us.
They advised on everything and made most of the arrangements, starting with legalities and ending with best place to buy flowers, etc.
These agencies do this for a living and are very aware of what they have to do to make this happen. They were invaluable to us.
Apr 6th, 2016, 06:02 AM
#31
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I was married in Santorini (Fira) in 2004. We used a wedding planner based in the Aressana hotel and were very happy with the way it all turned out. There were a few nervous moments as we had organised everything remotely and there were one or two roadbumps along the way, but on the day itself it all went swimmingly.
The paperwork to allow us to get married abroad was easy enough to organise through the Department of Foreign Affairs and the only headache on the paperwork side was that when we came back none of the banks / passport offices etc would accept my wedding certificate (I wanted it for change of name, recognition in our pension funds of married status etc) unless I had it officially translated into english and stamped/apostilled by the greek embassy.
We had 40 guests and the great thing was that only people who REALLY cared about us were prepared to travel all that way. So we did not have a whole lot of relations 3 times removed but had a group of our really close friends. The other plus was that everyone at the wedding was on holidays so they were all very relaxed and interacted really well with each other.
Cost - far less than if we had the wedding at home (Ireland) which allowed us to pay for some nice extras like a boat trip the day before.
Where exactly are they thinking of? I would suggest sticking to somewhere that is a "wedding destination" where there will be planners with plenty of experience. Our wedding planner was not expensive at all and made sure we did not forget anything, and took all of the stress out of the day of, and days leading up to, the wedding. I wouldn't try to plan a foreign wedding without one.
The paperwork to allow us to get married abroad was easy enough to organise through the Department of Foreign Affairs and the only headache on the paperwork side was that when we came back none of the banks / passport offices etc would accept my wedding certificate (I wanted it for change of name, recognition in our pension funds of married status etc) unless I had it officially translated into english and stamped/apostilled by the greek embassy.
We had 40 guests and the great thing was that only people who REALLY cared about us were prepared to travel all that way. So we did not have a whole lot of relations 3 times removed but had a group of our really close friends. The other plus was that everyone at the wedding was on holidays so they were all very relaxed and interacted really well with each other.
Cost - far less than if we had the wedding at home (Ireland) which allowed us to pay for some nice extras like a boat trip the day before.
Where exactly are they thinking of? I would suggest sticking to somewhere that is a "wedding destination" where there will be planners with plenty of experience. Our wedding planner was not expensive at all and made sure we did not forget anything, and took all of the stress out of the day of, and days leading up to, the wedding. I wouldn't try to plan a foreign wedding without one.
Apr 6th, 2016, 08:54 AM
#32
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<i>Stamps are sold in a tabacchi in Italy. That is the place to buy them.</i>
In theory you can buy stamps at a tabaccheria in Italy, but in practice it's problematic. A tabbacheria is a government licensed monopoly, who are required by law to sell stamps, but they hate doing it because it's a low-profit item that requires them to pay for the inventory in advance. Often they end up with nonsaleable stamps when the prices change, and have no possibility of being reimbursed. For that reason, many of them sell only the basic €0.95 stamp, and if you ask for anything else, they tell you they're out of them.
This is why Bilbo can't find stamps for New Zealand at a tabaccheria. It's also why the rip-off organization called GPS has had such a big success in Italy. They sell very expensive fake stamps which are really for a private delivery service. They accumulate bales of postcards and then ship them to a country that has really cheap postal rates, where the mail is sent via normal post from that country to its destination. If your postcard arrives at all, it will be months later. I have seen GPS "letterboxes" in various Italian cities, but they are especially plentiful in the cities most visited by tourists.
In our town, you can buy a regular €0.95 stamp in a tabaccheria, but nothing else. Our tabacchaio says, "They move too slowly." I once tried to buy a stamp in Rome, and couldn't find a tabaccheria that sold even local stamps. The two I tried told me to go to the post office. They didn't offer to sell me a GPS stamp, either, though, because they are only valid for foreign destinations.
In theory you can buy stamps at a tabaccheria in Italy, but in practice it's problematic. A tabbacheria is a government licensed monopoly, who are required by law to sell stamps, but they hate doing it because it's a low-profit item that requires them to pay for the inventory in advance. Often they end up with nonsaleable stamps when the prices change, and have no possibility of being reimbursed. For that reason, many of them sell only the basic €0.95 stamp, and if you ask for anything else, they tell you they're out of them.
This is why Bilbo can't find stamps for New Zealand at a tabaccheria. It's also why the rip-off organization called GPS has had such a big success in Italy. They sell very expensive fake stamps which are really for a private delivery service. They accumulate bales of postcards and then ship them to a country that has really cheap postal rates, where the mail is sent via normal post from that country to its destination. If your postcard arrives at all, it will be months later. I have seen GPS "letterboxes" in various Italian cities, but they are especially plentiful in the cities most visited by tourists.
In our town, you can buy a regular €0.95 stamp in a tabaccheria, but nothing else. Our tabacchaio says, "They move too slowly." I once tried to buy a stamp in Rome, and couldn't find a tabaccheria that sold even local stamps. The two I tried told me to go to the post office. They didn't offer to sell me a GPS stamp, either, though, because they are only valid for foreign destinations.
Apr 6th, 2016, 09:12 AM
#33
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Bilbo, there's no general name, and therefore no recognized occupation, for a person who stands in line for you in Italy. If you know of a recognized name for this profession, I'd like to see a source other than some Italian who told you so. (You'll always find Italians who are willing to confirm the worst clichés about their country.)
You can find people who will do it, but I'm sure that's true in every country in the world. I tried searching in Italian and in English for "person who will stand in line" and found results in both languages, but it was obviously a more organized activity in the USA. (I didn't see any organizations that supply the service in the UK.)
It is true that it's easier to get a job in Italy if someone recommends you, in which case it's said that you were "racommandato". Nepotism is also alive and well in Italy, but it's a bit more undercover than it used to be. Now university professors usually "recommend" the relatives of professors from other universities, who exchange the favor. It was too obvious to have your department stuffed with your own relatives.
You can find people who will do it, but I'm sure that's true in every country in the world. I tried searching in Italian and in English for "person who will stand in line" and found results in both languages, but it was obviously a more organized activity in the USA. (I didn't see any organizations that supply the service in the UK.)
It is true that it's easier to get a job in Italy if someone recommends you, in which case it's said that you were "racommandato". Nepotism is also alive and well in Italy, but it's a bit more undercover than it used to be. Now university professors usually "recommend" the relatives of professors from other universities, who exchange the favor. It was too obvious to have your department stuffed with your own relatives.
Apr 6th, 2016, 10:28 AM
#34
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It's possible in Italy to have only a Church wedding, which has no legal validity, but does put you right in the eyes of the church. People do it who don't want to lose their widow/widower pensions, which are stopped if you remarry. Many people question the ethics of the Church in allowing this religious-only wedding.
This wouldn't be a solution for those who want to marry in Italy without a lot of red tape, because it's even more difficult to have a church wedding in Italy than a civil one. To start with, most dioceses are sticklers for having people marry in a church in their own parish.
The document that says you're free to marry (civilly or religiously) is a <i> nulla osta </>, from the Latin <i> nihil obstat </i>, meaning "no objection".
By the way, I've often thought that a foreign wedding could save money for another reason. You invite tons of guests, only a few of whom are willing to travel so far for your wedding. However, they all feel obliged to buy you a gift.
This wouldn't be a solution for those who want to marry in Italy without a lot of red tape, because it's even more difficult to have a church wedding in Italy than a civil one. To start with, most dioceses are sticklers for having people marry in a church in their own parish.
The document that says you're free to marry (civilly or religiously) is a <i> nulla osta </>, from the Latin <i> nihil obstat </i>, meaning "no objection".
By the way, I've often thought that a foreign wedding could save money for another reason. You invite tons of guests, only a few of whom are willing to travel so far for your wedding. However, they all feel obliged to buy you a gift.
Apr 6th, 2016, 11:45 AM
#35
Apr 6th, 2016, 11:47 AM
#36
Apr 6th, 2016, 01:12 PM
#37
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I just googled "codista" and it's all about Giovanni Cafaro. He invented the word, but it's still only a word in his universe. Somehow on a slow news day it got picked up and blown up by journalists. Obviously, the fact that it's about Italians is a big part of the story. I don't think it would have made the news in the UK if it had been about a Norwegian guy.
Here are the first four Google results for "codista" (on an Italian language operating system):
<i> Risultati di ricerca
Giovanni Cafaro Codista
www.giovannicafarocodista.it/
giovanni cafaro il primo codista italiano. ... Sono partiti e stanno avendo notevole successo i miei corsi per Codisti con Skype....
la mia storia - Codisti
www.giovannicafarocodista.it/la-mia-storia
CHI SONO. Ciao, sono Giovanni Cafaro nato e vissuto a Salerno...
i servizi del codesta - Codisti
http://www.giovannicafarocodista.it/...zi-del-codista
Il Codista, nuova figura lavorativa da me inventata ...
A lezione per diventare «codisti» - VanityFair.it
http://www.vanityfair.it/news/italia...-codista-corsi
08 mag 2014 - Giovanni Cafaro, disoccupato, si è inventato un lavoro: fa le code per gli altri a 10 euro l'ora. </i>
I cut it short, but all the articles on the first page of Google results were about him. On his own web page, he says, "Il codista, a new occupation I invented." He's now selling a course on Skype to train people for the job. That must mean he didn't make much money doing it.
He charges €10 an hour, which sounds a tad high to me. Now that utility bills can be paid at the tabaccheria or online, his business doesn't seem destined to grow.
Lots of the line-standing in Italy is totally unnecessary. People stand in endless lines at the beginning of the month to withdraw their pensions, when they could have them direct deposited and get their money from an ATM. The post office is full of people waiting to pay utility bills; for years, at least 20 (ever since I've known him), my husband has authorized his bank to pay his utility bills directly, and he doesn't even have to log onto a web site to do it.
You can order package delivery online from the Poste Italiane, and have the package picked up at your home or office for mailing, nationally or internationally. You can even send regular letters online, if they can be typed on your computer. (If you want to send something handwritten, you'd have to scan it and attach it to a document.)
99.9% of these people waiting in line have lots more time than money, and wouldn't pay someone to stand in a line. It's the only fun they have all day! It's a chance to socialize, gossip, grouse about the lines ....
Here are the first four Google results for "codista" (on an Italian language operating system):
<i> Risultati di ricerca
Giovanni Cafaro Codista
www.giovannicafarocodista.it/
giovanni cafaro il primo codista italiano. ... Sono partiti e stanno avendo notevole successo i miei corsi per Codisti con Skype....
la mia storia - Codisti
www.giovannicafarocodista.it/la-mia-storia
CHI SONO. Ciao, sono Giovanni Cafaro nato e vissuto a Salerno...
i servizi del codesta - Codisti
http://www.giovannicafarocodista.it/...zi-del-codista
Il Codista, nuova figura lavorativa da me inventata ...
A lezione per diventare «codisti» - VanityFair.it
http://www.vanityfair.it/news/italia...-codista-corsi
08 mag 2014 - Giovanni Cafaro, disoccupato, si è inventato un lavoro: fa le code per gli altri a 10 euro l'ora. </i>
I cut it short, but all the articles on the first page of Google results were about him. On his own web page, he says, "Il codista, a new occupation I invented." He's now selling a course on Skype to train people for the job. That must mean he didn't make much money doing it.
He charges €10 an hour, which sounds a tad high to me. Now that utility bills can be paid at the tabaccheria or online, his business doesn't seem destined to grow.
Lots of the line-standing in Italy is totally unnecessary. People stand in endless lines at the beginning of the month to withdraw their pensions, when they could have them direct deposited and get their money from an ATM. The post office is full of people waiting to pay utility bills; for years, at least 20 (ever since I've known him), my husband has authorized his bank to pay his utility bills directly, and he doesn't even have to log onto a web site to do it.
You can order package delivery online from the Poste Italiane, and have the package picked up at your home or office for mailing, nationally or internationally. You can even send regular letters online, if they can be typed on your computer. (If you want to send something handwritten, you'd have to scan it and attach it to a document.)
99.9% of these people waiting in line have lots more time than money, and wouldn't pay someone to stand in a line. It's the only fun they have all day! It's a chance to socialize, gossip, grouse about the lines ....
Apr 6th, 2016, 10:56 PM
#39
you may be right, and I guess it is supported by the point that whenever I go into an Italian post office I notice that there are leather sofas set around the space, you go into a British post office and there is just a queue line (normally of just a few people).
If you give people nice sofas...
If you give people nice sofas...
Apr 7th, 2016, 03:00 AM
#40
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I've waited in some horrendous post office lines in the US, but there was no socializing.
One thing the US has that seems a good idea to me is that you can buy and print your own postage stamps online. You can even put your own photo on them!
One thing the US has that seems a good idea to me is that you can buy and print your own postage stamps online. You can even put your own photo on them!
