kja

Have any of you been to this festival? It is apparently a two-day event, and I'm wondering if one day is better than the other -- or if anyone has other comments about it. TIA!

menachem

It's not a festival for you.

kja

Why?

hetismij2

Please don't call them Gypsies. Roma and or Sinti, but never Gypsies. If you want to attend at least show them some respect.

kerouac

Gypsy is a completely acceptable term in France for French gypsies (Ever heard of the musical group Gipsy Kings?). They would be horrified and angry if you called them Roma (eastern European gypsies). French gypsies call themselves gitans, tziganes or manouches and are a lot closer to Spanish gypsies than the ones from the east. Sinti is a scientific term that absolutely nobody in the community uses.

I have never been to Saintes Maries-de-la-Mer during the festival, but I have been there regularly during the summer, and frankly it is always quite crowded in the summer (hard to find a place to park), but it is definitely interesting and worth a visit. The roof of the church (small fee) gives a great view of the town and the Mediterranean.

bilboburgler

Appleby Horse Fair | 7 - 10 June 2018

come to our fair instead, there are special days for "settled people".

Christina

I guess the Gypsy Kings are offending themself. Not to mention all the folks who are on the American TV show My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding. Not to mention classical musicians in the 19th century and even today like the Budapest Ensemble.

https://www.cdiscount.com/musique-cd...037176729.html

There was nothing pejorative about that term when it originated, it is only certain people from afar who have decided it is offensive for some reason. PC police. Originally, it was just because it was thought they originated near Egypt, I believe. I thought some scholars think they ethnic group even invented the term themself

menachem

So?

menachem

Because it isn't? Why should everything ever have to be accessible to you and others like you? You have no right to see it.

(Same goes for things like Kumbh Mela and Balinese festivals etc)

kja

I simply used the name of the festival as I found it in several different publications and internet resources, meant no disrespect, and am grateful to kerourac for his comments on the use of the term "gypsy" in France.

And I also thank kerouac for his comments about the town and its church roof.

kja

Interesting. When I visited Bali, Balinese people routinely went out of their way to encourage me to participate in their festivals.

StCirq

OK, I'm going to take the middle road here. On the one hand, I agree that the "festival" is not meant for outsiders to congregate and gape at the goings-on of the gypsies (who, btw, are referred to as manouches here in the Périgord, which I also tend to absorb as a pejorative term, but they are also of course gitanes). It is very much a festival for the gypsies/manouches themselves and not one that is meant to be a free-for-all for "outsiders." In that sense, menachem is right - it's not for you, and it's possible your presence won't be appreciated. Doesn't mean you shouldn't go, though.

But I don't think the Bali reference is applicable here, for many historical, geographical, and political reasons. The manouches will not encourage you to engage with them. That doesn't mean you shouldn't go - after all, they put on this big display and in the 21st century can't expect to be left alone, but you need to go with a soft footprint.

I wouldn't avoid Ste-Marie but I would not be expecting "a festival" as one normally thinks of one. Go, stay a few villages away, be sure to have a meal at La Telline, and drop by unostentatiously.

kja

@ StCirq -- Thank you! Your explanation is very helpful and gives me a much better sense of what this event entails. I may decide to visit Saintes Maries de la Mer, but I will not go at the time of the pilgrimage.

StCirq

You're welcome, kja, but do try to fit in a meal at La Telline, my hands-down favorite restaurant in France.

kja

Wow, StCirq -- that is one powerful recommendation! Duly noted.

StCirq

I suppose it may be a go-to place now, but I know it as the living room of a fisherman and his wife, who used to serve whatever monsieur had caught that morning - the first time I was there that being a whole live eel, which freaked me out a bit until I tasted the delicate flesh and fell in love. They had a dog, a lab named Idea, who when guests were finished with their meals, would come around and take your dirty napkin from your lap or the table and take it to a basket in the kitchen. There was an aura of magic about the place. I think it was one of the places and experiences that made me decide to hightail it across the ocean for good.

In addition to eel roasted on a fireplace right in front of our table, we had a cream of pumpkin and some sort of spinach that I forget at the moment. The starter was a huge bowl of tellines with aïoli. I think dessert was a sort of apple tarte. My two meals there meld together, but the sense of joy I've had from both of them has never left me.

Don't go expecting fancy. Go expecting memories

kja

@ StCirq -- what delightful experiences you had in that restaurant! Thank you for sharing them so evocatively.

StCirq

Well, some things are unforgettable, aren't they? And some things life-changing.

menachem

I wrote my ph.D on Bali as a tourist destination in the 1920s and 1930s, mainly focusing on the life of German-Russian painter Walter Spies and his circle. Many festivals that tourists now witness and that seem to be part of Balinese culture from time immemorial were invented then, a few notably by Spies himself, as a means for village communities to make some money off of tourists. Another Spies creation that has endured are the artists' cooperatives he founded together with Dutch civil servant, Schrader.

There's a far different Bali behind the façade accessible to tourists.

kja

@ menachem: I have no doubt that what you say about Bali is true. I don't believe I said anything that could be construed as suggesting that the Balinese -- or any other people -- reveal themselves fully to anyone, tourist or otherwise. So, for example, I wasn't at all surprised to be prohibited from visiting many sacred parts of Pura Bekasih or to find that certain temples in Ubud were closed to tourists during certain ceremonies. I also know that I had no expectation of being asked to join a Balinese celebration being held for a Brahman prior to cremation, and indeed, my desire to avoid intruding was sufficient to prevent me from doing more than stepping inside the compound to show my respect and my appreciation for the invitation. I also know that there are marked cultural differences in who is welcome to what. For example, while Easter is among the holiest of dates in the Christian calendar, I'm sure you know that people from all over the world, and of all faiths (or lack thereof) head to Spain for Semanta Santa and are made to feel welcome, even if not introduced to the most holy of sacraments. Corpus Christi involves a major pilgrimage in Cuzco, and tourists are welcomed to join in the public festivities, even if not invited to join in the processions. Rightly or wrongly, the gypsy pilgrimage to Saintes Maries de la Mer is mentioned in MANY guidebooks and on-line resources as a "don't miss" event. I asked for information about that event, and am glad that StCirg was kind enough to provide a reply that was sufficiently responsive to allow me to know I would not want to intrude on it. Simply telling me that "it wasn't for me" -- particularly when you know nothing about me -- told me absolutely nothing except that you apparently had no desire to provide useful information. Bringing Bali into the discussion, and then lecturing me about it, hasn't led me to a different conclusion. To paraphrase, there's a person behind the façade accessible through a question on Fodor's, and that person could be far different than you assume.