Go Back  Fodor's Travel Talk Forums > Destinations > Europe
Reload this Page >

Grotto uncovered linked to the worship of Romulus and Remus

Grotto uncovered linked to the worship of Romulus and Remus

Jan 10th, 2008, 05:24 AM
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,699
Grotto uncovered linked to the worship of Romulus and Remus

Sorry if this has been posted already:

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/...th-Of-Rome.php

sandi_travelnut is offline  
Jan 10th, 2008, 06:14 AM
  #2  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,313
Very cool!
GreenDragon is offline  
Jan 10th, 2008, 07:41 AM
  #3  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,928
Thank you for sharing! This is another article that has me wanting to run away and become an archeologist...how cool!
amyb is online now  
Jan 10th, 2008, 10:39 AM
  #4  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,047
Actually, there is very strong evidence that is not the place where Romulus and Remus have been worshipped but simply a dining room which belonged to Augustus' palace:

- The Romulus-Remus-temple would not have been so intricately decorated, it was rather carved in bare rock.

- The room is right within the main building of Augustus' palace and it is decorated with Augustus' crest, the eagle. It is very probable that it was nothing but a dining room, but still a very nice one.
traveller1959 is offline  
Jan 10th, 2008, 10:43 AM
  #5  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,019
traveller1959,

I am curious...why are you debunking the article? This is a legitimate newspaper.

Do you have the "strong evidence" to support your statement?
i_am_kane is offline  
Jan 10th, 2008, 01:35 PM
  #6  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 179
As early as Nov 22 the Italian newspaper La repubblica claimed that most experts agreed that the Lupercale had to be found elsewhere since this was only a nicely decorated nympheum.
MilenaM is offline  
Jan 10th, 2008, 02:22 PM
  #7  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,433
1st let me say I also jumped on this bandwagon when it was 1st announced .

Kane I would add another 'very' to Traveller's "very strong evidence" statement .

The Italian Culture Ministry has been telling whoopers every year
for ~3 yrs now only for the Worldwide press coverage.
And the World media just prints the official press releases which are all the same basically.

And the Lupercal is the whooper for 2007 .

 First it was "King's Palace discovered in Roman Forum"!!! This so-called *new* discovery was drummed-up like a major historical find.
And they tied it into proof of the Romulus' existance.

The Regia (Royal Palace) was traditionally believed to be the palace of Rome's 2nd King Numa (715-673BC).
 A 7C noble Etruscan house was excavated in that location many years ago.
Which you could still partly see (foundations) until ~3yrs ago, its been backfilled.

 And the 'REX' (king) cup/bowl dating to ~625BC was found there.
 And very likely the later 'Domus Publica' followed the same lines as the Palace (just built-over over the centuries).

Bottom line; Everyone knew it was there! The Regia and Temple of Vesta were tied together from Day 1.

 Next it was "Newly discovered tombs predate Romulus' Founding of Rome" (753BC)!!!
 Again a major drummed-up discovery and the PR hype was Romulus' people weren't the first to settle here which would change the founding of Rome's history!

 These tombs were found in the 'Forum of Caesar' and I recall dated to the ~12C-BC.

But they knew that even in the Roman Forum Museum there are cremation urns and funerary artifacts dating to the 10C found in the Roman Forum. And this was just one small excavated area in the Forum and it predates Romulus.
 And on the Palatine Hill (Romulus' village) human artifacts from the Middle Palaeolithic Age right up to a permanent settlement in the 13C BC have been found and are in the Palatine Museum.
 
The latest is the 'Lupercal Found'!!! which has gotten major Woldwide media coverage since last Nov.
The only thing the Lupercal and this site have in common is that they are both caves .
And caves are not uncommon at the base and sides of a rocky hills .

1st; The Romans still were rebuilding the 'Hut of Romulus' (wood poles, reeds, mud, etc) as a shrine right up until 450ish AD.
Odd that the mosaics in this were never replaced with a newer style over the next 450+yrs.
This site was probably buried in the 1C AD possibly by Nero's 64AD Fire?

2nd; Wrong location and they know it.
Ancient writers put the Lupercal west of this location.
I'm paraphrasing a post with ancient writer's references from sci.archaeology.

"Built against the Palatine Hill *on* the road that leads to the Circus".
This has to be the Vicus Tuscus.
West!

4thC Regionary Catalogues put the Lupercal in Regio X which is *after* the Temple of Victoria/Victory.
West!

154BC dismantled 151BC: A stone theatre was built "at the Lupercal and facing the Palatine".
The poster ties this in as a small theatre facing the Temple of Magna Mater.
The 40m wide stone steps of the temple face the Circus Maximus and would have been the seats.
"at the Lupercal" would have actually been over it at a higher level.
West!

I found this in a search. So they knew this exact site was somewhere in this area.

'Early and Imperial Rome: Or, Promenade Lectures on the Archaeology' by
Hodder Michael Westropp - 1884
http://tinyurl.com/37jlyz
"Aldovrandi, who lived in the middle of the sixteenth century,, tells us that a nymphaeum, ornamented with marine shells, was discovered at the
foot of that part of the Palatine near the church of S. Anastasia in his day. This was probably the Lupercal".

 The modern photos and that 16C account shows and mentions sea shells.
So the most revered site in ancient Rome with a she-wolf, infant twins, God Mars as their father, Vestal Virgin as mom, revered shepard step-father, etc, etc.
And they decorate it with sea shells???
And in the middle of the dome (place of honor) there is an eagle rather than the symbol of Rome...a She-Wolf?

I'm wondering (wild guess ) if this was originally a cistern used for collecting rain water and sometimes spring water.
The base of a hill would be an ideal location for channeling in rain water (or from a spring).
These cisterns were usually underground which kept the water cool, as a cave would also.

It has the same shape as a cistern?
This was the 1st area in Rome to get aqueduct supplied water (~312BC).
So a cistern would be obsolete and not used after that.
A much smaller one was found nearby also rain gutters on the long outdoor stairs (Scalae Caci).

Romans loved to impress their peers with fine dining experiences (food and the room or location itself).

Put in a doorway, dining couches around the walls, tables, throw-up some mosaics and you'd have the 'talk of the town' of Triclinia.
Regards, Walter
ParadiseLost is offline  
Jan 10th, 2008, 03:55 PM
  #8  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,019
Paradise Lost aka Paradiso Perduto!

Holy Cow! What an eye opener...I need time tonight to re-read the information you posted so that I can fully absorb it.

I am so glad I asked my question.
i_am_kane is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy -

FODOR'S VIDEO

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:11 AM.