Greece, Italy, France Itinerary
 

I think I have finally put together a tentative itinerary for our Europe trip this summer. Originally we had an unlimited amount of time, but something came up last minute and our dates are no longer flexible. The earliest we can leave is May 26th and we have to come back to the states on June 17th. You can view my thought process and the suggestions i recieved (thank you to all!) on these two threads:
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...ingle-trip.cfm

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...s-398506-2.cfm

Our priorities are to see a little bit of Greece (Athens, Santorini), Amalfi Coast, Paris and some of the countryside in France. Keep in mind we have already visited northern Italy and Rome, so one full day in Rome will be sufficient for us. My husband has visited France but I have never been. Neither of us have ever been to Greece. My questions are:
1. Do you think this itinerary is feasible, as far as the route we are taking and how much time we are alotting in each place.
2. Has anyone done the day trip from Athens to Delphi? Did you enjoy it or does it make for too long of a day?
3. I've heard that going directly to the islands and leaving Athens for last is the best way to do it. Thoughts?
4. What is the best way to get to the Amalfi Coast from Naples? We are interested in staying in Positano but open to suggestions for a great base in the area.
5. Where should we stay in France once we leave Paris? We are interested in visiting a vineyard, renting bikes and relaxing. Province sounds appealing to me but i am having trouble making up my mind on this.

Lastly, feel free to tell me that I am crazy and that this is too much moving around. From my previous experience on Fodors it seems that my husband and I like to travel at a quicker pace than alot of the commenters here, but I don't want to have too many long travel days.

May 26th: Fly Atlanta-Athens
May 27th: Arrive in Athens, Flight to Santorini
May 28th: Santorini, Stay in Oia
May 29th: Santorini
May 30th: Santorini
May 31st: Santorini
June 1st : Flight or ferry to Athens
June 2nd: Day trip to Delphi or explore Athens
June 3rd: Fly ATH-Naples, train or bus to Amalfi Coast
June 4th: Amalfi Coast
June 5th: Amalfi Coast
June 6th: Amalfi Coast
June 7th: Train to Rome
June 8th: Rome, Cooking Class
June 9th: Fly Rome-Paris
June 10th: Paris
June 11th: Paris
June 12th: Paris
June 13th: France
July 14th: France
July 15th: France
July 16th: France
July 17th: Fly home from Paris.

Also, one more thing: Would you rent a car in the french countryside or rely on public transportation?

I have stayed in Delphi and it is awesome - worth whatever hours on a bus you have to spend - organized excursions are the quickest but if you can try to stay in the small modern village near the ancient ruins as only after the tourist daytime hoardes have departed do the ancient stones take on, to me at least, a rather mystical scene - that for someone who has absolutely no mystical feelings.

But anyone do it IMO and cut a day out of Santorini, which I have also been to and it is far too small for my tastes for several days even though it is possible to day trip to other island from there.

PalenaQ, where would you add the extra day? The reason why I have 4 days there is I want to be able to relax a little bit and spend time doing nothing since we will be traveling for so long after that. Plus, we will be coming straight from work that week and would love to be able to unwind a little bit. I don't mind adding the relaxing day somewhere else if you have any suggestions!

as you are flying home from Paris, nsprotz, would it be better to pick up your car immediately you arrive in Paris, see the countryside, then return the car and see Paris?

alternatively, depending on where you were thinking of going in france - you could also think about flying from Rome to a regional french airport, tour that area, then get the train to Paris and end your trip there. I'm thinking Nice for Provence/the Rivieria, Toulouse for the south west or the dordogne, Rennes/ St. Brieuc for Brittany/Normandie etc.

I think that i would add your extra day to france - either to the countryside or to Paris.

I politely disagree with PalenQ. The long flight- Atlanta-Athens-Santorini- will leave you zombielike if you're anything like us for at least a day or two. So by the time you recover, you really wont have so much time to explore and Santorini. I'd leave that part of the itinerary intact.

I would recommend flying to Athens from Santorini. I did not enjoy the long ferry ride there on our first visit, and it eats up so much of your time.

Unless you know something I don't, it's impossible to fly from Athens to Naples. You have to go through Rome. We usually take a private transfer from FCO to Positano because we often travel with at least a few other people. It is pricey- about E350- and takes about 3 hours. You can also take the Eurostar to Naples from Rome, then arrange a private transfer from there to Positano. Not sure on the pricing anymore for those options.

Not sure why you really want to spend so much time and $$ on one night in Rome. I like to cook, too, but that class better be something really special!!! Otherwise, it's just one more stop on a pretty busy itinerary, and I would cut it out, and fly straight ( if you can) from Naples to Paris. ( I think Alitalia may fly this route and/or Air France. We did it long ago, but not sure it's still in service.)

We really liked the area around Bordeaux/St. Emilion, and it's an easy TGV train ride from Paris. But of course there are SO many areas of France that are worth staying in at least a few days! We also are obsessed with the area around Nice. It's a great combination of resort/city, and the surrounding towns will take your breath away, and are all easy to get to on the train or bus.

Good luck, and have a wonderful time! We'll be in Greece and Italy at the same time...!

Well, my 2 cents is that Delphi is too far for my taste and be sure to leave time in Athens for the fabulous archelogical museum. You will love Oia---great choice.

I would have car in rural France, but I would train to the area first and get the car there. Nice trip !

You haven't given Athens any time. It deserves time for the Acropolis and museums. Delphi is beautiful and deserves a day and perhaps an overnight. I am with PalenQ regarding Santorini. We were there four nights and it was much too long for us. We enjoyed other islands much more.

I agree that going straight to Santorini is a good idea, and four days there would be very nice. I don't think you need to put your relaxing days at the beginning of the trip, though, especially at the expense of seeing the sights of Athens. With your time constraints I would recommend two days on Santorini, then back to Athens, with possibly an overnight trip to Delphi as PalenQ sugggests.

You plan to fly from Rome, spend three days in Paris, then four more in "France" before returning to Paris for your flight home. I am happy to be corrected, but northern France, apart from Paris, is not the most interesting part of the country. It would make more sense to me if you flew to a city in southern France (maybe Nice or Lyon), then made your way north and saved Paris for last. :-)

A last thought: If you keep Rome on your itinerary, you can fly from FCO to Nice, and spend a few days there. Then fly on to Paris from Nice. You won't need a car in Nice since there's excellent public transportation, and many of the towns you'd like to see are within a very short distance.

Thanks for the suggestion, Annhig, I will look into that. Since I've never been to France, i thought it might be good to start in Paris but it will definately maximize our time by doing Paris last.
I think I will take one day from Santorini and add it to France. Having 5 days in France outside of Paris where would you suggest going?

I think I was typing my last reply while everyone else was....
Weadles, I thought I saw a flight from Athens to Naples directly but I could be mistaken. I am just trying to avoid going to Rome twice, but maybe we could fly Athens-Rome, spend a day there then travel to Positano and fly from Naples to France. I was considering the stop in Rome because of the convenience of flying out of Rome to Paris plus I really loved Rome and would absolutely love to see it again. The cooking class looks really great but not worth the stop for the class alone.

I am no expert on the Greek islands but Santorini looks so beautiful and looking through my guidebook none of the others really caught my eye, especially considering our time crunch.

Heimdall, I am not considering northern france, just the southern part. I like your idea of saving Paris for last. With 5 days in France (apart from the days in Paris) do you think we would have time to explore Province and the areas surrounding Nice?

We don't mind renting a car in France, just want to do whatever will save us the most money but allow us the convenience to explore.

How complicated is it to get from Rome or Naples to Positano without hiring a private driver (don't think that's in our budget!)

Only Santorini caught your eye and none of the other islands?
It will be a pity to be so near to great islands such as Paros or Naxos and not see them....

Yes, I think you could see a lot in Provence in a few days. I've stayed in Nice a few times, mostly for the Monaco Grand Prix, and have enjoyed driving around the region. I also like the area around Avignon and Nimes, and the drive past Pont du Gard and north through the Gorges d'Ardèche.

These days I travel mostly to Greece, and this is my favorite holiday destination. It pains me to say this, but with the little time you have allocated for Greece, perhaps you should skip it entirely and spend that extra time in France. Santorini is a beautiful island, but I don't think it is practical to go to Greece just to see it. :-)

Clausar, yes! Tell me why I should visit the other ones! With such a limited amount of time I figured I only have time to see one island. I mainly interested in beautiful scenery. The fact that Santorini is more touristy really doesn't bother me.

You'll need car for rural France. For a base from which you can check different rates, use kemwel.com. Basic rate means that the CDW can be carried on your credit card, but that may be limited to certain countries of origin (the U.S. and ???). If you rent in a provincial town, be aware that while you can avoid the RR station or airport pick-up fee by renting in town, it usually means that there is a fee for a one-way rental, and that fee is higher than the station pick-up fee. Chances are that the the RR station and airport car rental agency will be Europcar (Kemwel is only a broker) while the town agency might be Herz or Avis.

Heimdall, Greece is a must for us. We really don't want to cut it out. Do you think this is too rigorous of an itinerary?

Well, you have to balance your itinerary, and that means give and take. I've been to Santorini a couple of times, and it is absolutely stunning. But Athens is also a beautiful city, with much to see, so don't sell it short. I go to Greece once or twice a year, and used to go straight from the airport to islands, then back to the airport for my flight home. Recently I have discovered just how nice Athens is when you get away from the tourist areas, and now it is part of every trip to Greece for me. :-)

I could mention many wonderful neighbouring islands, while Santorini is a touristy but unique island, visiting an island like Naxos, will let you discover the true face of Greece.
Seems like you have allocated too little time for Greece, and according to your schedule, you won't be able to see even Athens properly....

About Athens to Naples: Aegean used to fly this route, but I think they discontinued it or only fly it later than your dates in the summer. We are going roughly the same time as you and have come up with no options but to fly through Rome, then make our way down to Positano.

As I mentioned earlier, there is a Eurostar train from Rome to Naples. From there, you can either arrange a private transfer to Positano ( about an hour or so) or take the local train to Sorrento, then switch to a boat or bus for the rest of the ride to Positano. I think there is also boat service from Naples to Positano, but we have never done it that way. The boat ride from Sorrento to Positano is absolutely gorgeous and fairly short ( about 40 min).

I highly recommend looking into reservations for this trip ASAP, especially in Positano, where the most popular hotels sometimes book a year ahead.

If you decide to reverse the Paris/France countryside portion, it looks like there are EasyJet flights directly from Rome to Nice.

Also, I wouldn't give up any of my alloted Santorini time -- its so beautiful and you'll love Oia! I've been to Naxos and Paros and they are both really nice but for me just don't compare to the uniqueness of Santorini.

Weadles, after looking for that flight again I think I was mistaken and you are right, I think we will have to go directly from Athens to Rome. I'm trying to figure out if it will make for too long of a day to then go directly to Positano (having to transfer from plane, to train then boat or bus). I can cut out Rome since we have already been.

If you decide to reverse the Paris/France countryside portion, it looks like there are EasyJet flights directly from Rome to Nice. >>

given that you can't fly from Athens to Naples, and to accommodate the above, and your already booked cookery class in rome, this might work:

May 26th: Fly Atlanta-Athens
May 27th: Arrive in Athens, Flight to Santorini
May 28th: Santorini, Stay in Oia
May 29th: Santorini
May 30th: Santorini
May 31st: Flight or ferry to Athens
June 1st : Athens
June 2nd: Day trip to Delphi or explore Athens
June 3rd: Fly ATH-Rome, train or bus to Amalfi Coast
June 4th: Amalfi Coast
June 5th: Amalfi Coast
June 6th: Amalfi Coast
June 7th: Train to Rome
June 8th: Rome, Cooking Class
June 9th: Fly Rome-Nice
June 10th: Nice
June 11th: Nice
June 12th: Nice - TGV train to Paris
June 13th: Paris
July 14th: Paris
July 15th: Paris
July 16th: Paris
July 17th: Fly home from Paris.

i have "borrowed" a night from Santorini to give to Athens, and you now have 4 nights in/around Nice and 5 in Paris. you could reverse those if you liked.

in a 22 night trip you now have 6 destinations - you certainly wouldn't want more, IMHO!

Well yes if resting and lazying around is your goal then Santorini is great. And if you want to day trip from Athens to a much closer and easier to reach classical Greek archeological site then try Corinth - ancient Corinth, easily accessible by train in an hour or so I think and also an amazing set of ruins that evoke the mystical aspect of ancient Greece.

I really don't mean to be rude, but is this a once-in-a-lifetime kind of trip? Is that why you're trying to pack in so many destinations in 22 days? I'm beginning to think you should rethink what you really want to see and do. Otherwise you're going to lose a lot of time to traveling between countries, packing, and unpacking, waiting for your rental car, etc.etc.

If France is a priority, why not leave Greece for another time when you can more leisurely explore all that it has to offer? Same for the Amalfi Coast. OR-- maybe whittle this down to two countries, so that you don't have so many planes, trains, cars, etc. to get between destinations.

Again, I apologize, and completely understand that people have very different travel styles. It's just that Greece is a very long way to go from Atlanta for only six days... And Italy for five days...

Weadles, I don't mind you saying that, I was actually expecting/waiting for someone to say this was too much (it seems like every fodors thread that I read everyone is telling the op that they are doing to much.)

Here's the thing, we've done trips where we just take time to explore one country. We spent two weeks in Ireland last summer and two weeks in Italy the summer before. Towards the end of each two week trip we were ready to move on and do something different. I am not trying to pack a lifetime worth of trips int three weeks, I know we will be back to Europe at some point in our life. But it won't be for a few years. What I am trying to do is string together the must see places for us in three weeks. We want to sample a little bit of Greece, a little bit of Southern Italy and a little bit of France. We may choose to go back to France or Greece at some point and do a longer vacation there. I don't mind cutting out Rome since we spent 4 days there previously if that helps the itinerary to run smoother.

I know everyone has a different style of travel and I do appreciate the advice of everyone here. But, we do travel at a pretty fast place and don't need to see everything in each place we visit.

I am planning on checking travel times between the places we want to go and I am willing to re-think this itinerary if it really is that bad....?

annhig, I really like the itinerary you put together. I definately don't want to add anymore destinations, trying to decide if I should cut something out.

Alitalia shows a flight from Athens to Naples on June 3 for $194. It leaves at 13:45 and arrives at 14:30. (Gains an hour because of time zones.)

I think your itinerary is looking good. I'm really glad you added that day to Athens; it deserves it.

So where are you planning to stay on the Amalfi coast? Getting to that location is the next question.

Mimar, thanks for the tip! I better get on it and book that flight :)

Where do you think we should stay on the amalfi coast? Which town makes a good base? So far I am considering Positano, Sorrento or Ravello.

Hi nspotz,

Many years ago, when young and foolish, I did a two week driving trip through Europe in a Porsche 911, starting in the UK, and going through France, Andorra, Spain, France (again), Monaco, Italy, Austria, Germany, and Belgium, finishing back in the UK. That's nine countries in two weeks, making your itinerary pale in comparison. :D

I'm only telling you this because I know what it's like to do a fast paced itinerary. These days I've slowed down, and prefer to spend more time in fewer places. I see nothing wrong in your itinerary that a little fine tuning won't fix. Flying to Nice, spending a few days in the south of France, then going from there to Paris would work well. I haven't spent enough time in Italy to comment on that segment of your trip. It would be a shame, though, to travel all the way to Greece and not spend a couple of days in Athens. :-)

Re: the Amalfi coast. I'd rule out Ravello. It's up high in the hills overlooking the coast. Great views but a bit hard to get to and from. And no beach, no waterfront.

I prefer Amalfi to Positano; it's more of a real Italian town whereas Positano is full of expensive boutiques and high-end hotels.

Sorrento I personally like (many don't). It's on the Golf of Naples, not the AC proper. It's a bigger town, but still pretty with good views and very good transportation options to Pompeii, Herculaneum, Capri, and Naples.

So if you want to relax and hit the beach, then stay on the AC proper, Amalfi or Positano or, for a really small town, Praiano. If you want to do day trips, opt for Sorrento.

Sorrento is the most convenient for day trips, but it is also tour bus central in the summer months, and home to tons of fish n chip shops, which is why I don't like it as much as Positano. I also don't find the views/town as pretty. That being said, no doubt Sorrento has many more reasonable hotel options than Positano, although if you get started now, you may find affordable rates. As for Amalfi, I get what Mimar is saying, but again, Positano has those views,(!!) and to me that's what the Amalfi Coast is all about.

BTW, it is more difficult but not impossible to day trip from Positano to Sorrrento. There is boat service up and down the coast and to Capri, but some days even when it's really gorgeous out, water conditions prevent the boats from operating.

Lastly, don't get excited about the beaches on the AC. Atrani close to Amalfi has an almost decent one. But most of the beaches are gritty sand, and the town beach in Positano is really for sunning, dipping, and being seen. There are lots of concrete swimming piers in the area, and lots of people swim off the side of their boats.

yes nspotz - if there's a direct flight from Athens to Naples, go ahead a book it straight away!

We liked sorrento a lot, but that WAS 30 years ago. as it's May you are travelling, the crowds may not be so bad.

personally, i wouldn't cut out anything. you've got a few shorter stays [eg Rome and Athens] but you have some longer stays to balance them out. and these are places you really want to go ,so why not!

you can also stay longer in Athens and Rome another time. your itinerary works, as well as any will - remember that no itinerary is perfect, and the search for the perfect trip generally ends in tears.

You are right annhig, perfection is unachievable, no matter how much planning i do there will always be things I wish I would have done differently.

Side note, any suggestions on taking a boat and getting out onto the water in either santorini or amalfi coast? My husband is an avid sailer so we would love to take a boat out on our own but if that's not possible, or too complicated maybe we could charter one with a group and do some kind of tour....?

In Positano, we went out quite a few times with Gennaro e Salvatore, whose business was located down at the town dock. I don't know anything about taking a boat out on your own, but their tour to Capri and environs was really fantastic!

Write a separate post to Brotherleelove2004 who is a Santorini expert on this forum, and I'm sure he'll be able to give you information about what's possible there. We went out with "Captain George" for a tour of the caldera and sulphur springs, which was one of the highlights of our trip. We got his name from the front desk of our hotel ( Perivolas). Maybe you can do the same. Good luck!

I loved Sorrento, even in recent times with many tourists running amok - at night the streets are packed - a certain ambience - and the key thing about Sorrento to me is that it is the best base for hopping to places such as the Amalfi Coast - buses start in Sorrento and also to Capri, Ischia and Pompeii, Heraculeaun (sp?) and Mount Vesuvius by mini-bus or footpath - and also to Naples, one of the most old-world looking and feeling cities in all of Europe - Naples has its gritty side but also is a unique place that reminds me of Italy when I first started going there decades ago - narrow lanes - laundry strung across them - and yes incredibly filty at times.

Naples is exceptional - take at least a day trip there IMO.