kk

I just have to say that threads like this confirm/restore my faith in the kidness of fodorites...everyone has been very caring and thoughtful about torn's issues. Good goin', folks! <BR>And, torn, make some priorities, make lists, work through things, and know that we all believe you can do it! And enjoy the heck out of Europe with your mom! You both deserve it!

less torn than I was

Thanks, you guys. I really appreciate the support and advice. This is a wonderful community!

Cass

Torn -- (if I may weigh in one more time) -- <BR> <BR>I almost added another couple of lines in my long-winded (as usual) reply re:if you have a child. One of the reasons I didn't get back to grad school was that I had a child. (I got my MA at age 30 and started the PhD much later.) He's now out of the nest; I miss him terribly; it seemed like the blink of an eye; and I don't regret a single minute I "stole" from my work to spend with him. <BR> <BR>If I were in your shoes knowing what I know now, I guess my priorities would be child and husband, parents, travel, professional advancement in that order. BUT: If you have the strength and stamina to do all of it, as many here seem to think you can, I admire and applaud you. The key is definitely a full-partner spouse. <BR> <BR>(PS: my PhD is in a field related to yours, and we desperately, desperately need people who understand the need for preservation and conservation, especially in corporate archives. I couldn't have done my dissertation without the great good luck to have found lots of archives in publishing and the chemical industry. You go, girl!)

Torn

Cass, <BR>Thank you for your last post. You and I are of one mind. My son is nearly 12 and it's gone so fast. I think you answered my question--or confirmed the answer I think I'd already come up with. My husband thinks that, whatever else, I need to take this trip with my mom (on the theory that pianos and etc fall from the sky). I wrote to my prof with my dilemma, and was very frank. I'll see what he says, but I'm pretty sure I'll be withdrawing for the time being. Thanks again to everyone. Cass, I would like to correspond with you on the professional topic you mentioned; my address is [email protected].

Go

Go, go, go on that trip with your Mom! A couple of years after my dad died, I went on a trip to Europe with my Mom and brother. A few months after the trip, my mom was diagnosed with cancer. If we didn't go then, she probably would never had made it to Europe. And before she passed away, we all talked about that trip and how important and valuable the whole adventure was for us. So go with your mom...as a previous poster said, the world will always be there, but so will school (I know...I was one of those that finally went back and finished my degree when I was 33 years old).

Shanna

Tale of woe: college is for boys, so I paid my way through night class for years, was told I took too long and had to start over, changed that major (acct'g), found out I'm really an artist and the heck with the MBA. I make a lot of money, but a satisfying life is still waiting for me. These days people are expected to continue learning until they drop. The rest of the world finally came around to my thinking: we're always learning - and with the constant changes and advances, we will always need to update credentials. You can get degrees all the time, but do it for you, not to match your friends. Do your life for you. When your Mom is gone you won't say, gee I wish I'd spent that time in class instead of with her. Someone here said it's the trip - it IS the trip, the journey, all of life, and it must meet your deep needs. If your classes aren't grabbing you now, they may later - or something else entirely will. The joy is the discovery, we are all changing and growing. This isn't really a hard decision - your heart is talking real loud to ya, darling! Have a good trip.

Jeanette

All above have given such great advice and are so articulate and truthful about their own experiences. I didn't get my first degree until after I was 40, so don't feel like it's now or never, because if you love knowledge you will seek it with enthusiasm when the time is right. torn, Cass- I have a similar story of doing it all and in one instance the MLA also. Didn't watch tv for about 10 years except for the occasional ball game. Stopped my grad work in a related field when I realized that my grandkids & I would not really get to know each other in the way they, and I too, wanted to with all the hours spent in research or clinical. So from someone who until very recently was still writing papers with gloves on in the ice rinks waiting for my son's hockey game to end- do travel with your Mom. You are not too old for school, ever. Also you will not believe the role modeling effect this will produce in those closest to you, both family and friends. I practically started an entire Continuing Education program at two different institutions with all the others I have brought into the programs. Your child and family will prosper far beyond the time you are gone one night per week. Thanks to all on this thread who have shared your journey.

Caitlin

Torn, this is an instance where having a graduate degree really will make a difference; I can't tell you if it will make you more money, but you really need a graduate degree to get good positions in library fields, so it could make a difference in your being able to do what will satisfy you most. It is a routine thing to take a week off in grad school for whatever reasons, and many students have family commitments, etc. Just tell your professor you need to be away and arrange with him or her to make up the class or work as appropriate. Make sure you connect with fellow students, exchange phone numbers, etc. so you can use them as resources both for classroom time you miss (get their notes, ect.) and also for commiseration. This is realy important! As others have said, of course you feel overwhelmed right now, but if you stick it out for the sememster, you will learn whether school and you are a good fit and also how to make the pieces of your life fit (and if you can). Good luck!

John

I, too, was torn lo these many moons ago about travel v. graduate school. I was younger, of course, married to a working spouse, no kids yet, and frustrated in a job over which my initial high hopes had been crushed by a series of imbecile supervisors (it was the federal government, BTW.) <BR>My solution? Grad school in Europe! It wasn't that expensive (actually cheaper than the US all in,) it provided me and my wife with a wonderful means of experiencing a different place with different customs without feeling like voyeurs or like we were wasting resources, in short, it was a great choice. <BR>We have a number of friends who have done the same, but with small children, house mortgages, etc., attached. They unanimously claim they would do it again, in a minute. The kids universally benefitted. <BR>Don't know about library science in Europe, but I imagine there are courses which would accept your credentials and where the degree would be seen as valid in the US. Worth thinking about, maybe.

nancy

Torn, <BR>Good you explained a bit more. <BR>I thought you were an unattached, non parent, so just winging it would be *very* appropriate. <BR>You should DEFINITELY go on vacation with your mom!Both you and she deserve it. <BR>As a mom , you are doing alot! <BR>And I understand your desire to have more family time , I am an "at home mom" and have been lucky enough to be, since my oldest was born, 13 yrs ago. <BR>But, we have given up alot for this privledge. <BR>We live in a 2 bedrm. house that I bought 23 yrs ago, and furnish with relatives' castoffs, have one TV the size of a makeup case, etc.and <BR>We will be taking our 1st trip to europe this summer, with the children. <BR>But I think that the grad school is still something that can be put off if you are feeling too stressed. <BR>I have 3-4 friends who did the same thing that you are trying to do, <BR>work, be a mom, a wife and go to grad school, and even though they did it, 2 of them wish they had waited until their children were in highschool. <BR>Your son is at the age where he will need you more, not less, if only for a few more yrs. <BR>So, Go on vacation with your mom, you both deserve this break, and you will give yourselves a great memory to have. <BR>Goodluck in your life! <BR> <BR>

Sally

Please, education is number one. Continue with grad school and travel later when you're making millions from the great new job you'll find because of your graduate degree. I too have a master's degree and I'm very happy to have furthered my education (even though I'm in debt because of the student loan). There will always be time for play later.

julie

John: <BR>I would love to go to Europe for my doctorate, I'm 6 classes away from my masters. Can you recommend a book or website to search for information. I've tried Yahoo but not much luck. I will need the classes to be in English. The only other language I speak a little is French, but like a 3 year old! <BR> <BR>P.S., I'll be taking my spouse and 8 year old if that matters. <BR> <BR>Thanks

Marsha

Last spring I took a 10-day trip to France, while also taking my first Library Science class. Luckily, my class was on-line. I explained the situation to my professor. He was very encouraging. I worked very hard to get as much done as I could before I left (I also have a part-time consulting business and two children.) I got an A and everything worked out fine. P.S. I wish my mom would travel with me.

message of undetermined relevance

For whatever it's worth, an alarmingly high % of the 30's-ish women in my law school got divorced during their 3 years there.

regrets

Sally and others: time for travel later? When my terribly responsible, hard-working and practical husband was diagnosed with cancer at age 38, he underwent treatment for two years then I made him move to the Fla Keys and learn how to sail. Making money, getting ahead, "doing the right thing" took second place for three years to having fun (we still paid the bills, the child support, worked hard, etc.). When he died at 43, he didn't regret changing his priorities. His best friend's wife died the year before from ovarian cancer, his cousin several months before from breast cancer. Another 50-ish type went out with a heart attack. Today, my children's friend (18 yrs old) has a brain tumor that can't be cured. Sometimes there is no "later." Of course, making a lot of money now might mean your children can spend it later. Career, money, getting ahead, playing catch-up with the Joneses, more car, more house, next promotion: one evening we anchored our (modest) sailboat in Buttonwood Sound, listened to music with friends, watched the sun set. It doesn't get any better. Priorities, balance, acceptance, serenity. What would any of us choose to do if we knew we had only six months to live?

torn

Dear all, but especially Regrets, <BR>I am going with my mom. She has told me that she & Dad always thought they would travel after he retired (though we did take USA driving trips every summer, which I thought was traveling--they evidently had other ideas). He took early retirement at 59 and was diagnosed with emphysema soon after. They did manage a few trips, but his mobility was impaired. He was on oxygen for three years and three months before his death. During those three years he only went about an hour and a half away to my aunt's house, and infrequently. So I'm going. <BR> <BR>To Sally, and others: my whole life is an education. Talking to my friends is an education; reading the posts on Fodor's is an education, but the hands-down most life-transforming, educational experience I have ever had is being a mother. So, while I intend to discuss this with my prof, who has encouraged me to stick with it, and go on the trip, and said he understands obligations and will work w/me, I still don't see how I can get my grad work finished in six yrs (the requirement) while being as attentive/attuned as I'd like to be to my son (who is just now in 6th grade--so six more years at home). We'll see what happens. I do appreciate all the input. <BR> <BR>JOhn, one close friend keeps egging me on with, 'You could go study at the Vatican libraries--they have a great Library Science program.' As I mentioned in an earlier post, my husband is sort of rootbound here. If I wait until after my son's off to college, maybe I COULD go study in Rome! or elsewhere in Europe. Now there's a good reason for putting it off!

done

I got my Juris Doctorate then went to Grad school for economics. Yes, many of my law school classmates got divorced,a very large percent actually. BUT, law school is completely different than grad school. You cannot let the above comment scare you. <BR> <BR>People who go to law school, in general, have a different type of personality than those in grad school. They are also under a lot more pressure. Only so many "A's" are given out and believe me your grades matter, so it is very cut-throat. Grad school was never competitive once I got into the program. Everybody gets "A's" practically, no competition. <BR> <BR>None of my grad school classmates have gotten a divorce!!! They are much happier and nicer people than my lawyer friends. <BR>Since I have both I guess you can say I'm 1/2 happy and 1/2 nice....ha ha

Jeanette

Julie, I don't know if this will help but it may be a start. Try the Petersen's Graduate Register. This web site is very busy and keeps changing url's but do a search and see if it helps you find alternatives. This issue is the BIG one for both men and women in modern times. torn, You do sound like you will make the right decisions that fit your situation. Education is life to me but it can never be #1. The people you love are, the rest is just stuff. Didn't want to be negative but thought of what xyz person said right away when I read your maritial info etc. In all my grad and PhD work the evidence is horrendous for the effects upon marriage. We women may tend to put our children's needs before our spouse's also. You would not believe how many marriages end over issues of time/ attention/ resources etc. when the woman is working for an advanced degree. Yes, your field is one in which the MLS will make a big difference. You'll do it when the time is right, and if that doesn't have time to happen you will still not have missed the BEST parts.

John

Julie, don't know your field, but for Torn, I just ran a quick search on Google (no endorsement intended) and found a couple of library/information science graduate courses in Britain, one at Sheffield U. and the other at Strathclyde U. in Glasgow (where I used to teach, BTW, so can attest to the world class faculty and their amazingly good judgement); I'm sure there are more but it's not my field so I don't know the resources. <BR>British universities attract a great many overseas students, both undergraduate and postgrads, so the education one obtains is only partly the fault (oops) of the faculty, the rest coming from the great diversity of fellow students. <BR>

nancy

Torn; <BR>So , when and where are you both going to go?!! <BR>(I/We want to know,) and of course, you can do a lot of planning here. <BR>I can relate to your story with your father. <BR>My father retired early also, and then was diagnosed at 58 with Parkinson's. <BR>It is progressing slowly, cause he is 74 now, and still able to walk, and eat and talk. <BR>BUT, I definitely see envy in my mom and dad's eyes when we talk about my family's trip to italy this summer. <BR> <BR>One does NOT always have the time to travel later. <BR>So, please tell us, <BR>where are you both dreaming of going and when? <BR>