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Good Grief - Another Scotland Itinerary Request

Good Grief - Another Scotland Itinerary Request

Old Jan 17th, 2005, 03:53 PM
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Good Grief - Another Scotland Itinerary Request

Hold on to your hats this is a long one!

If all you wonderful Scotland experts can stand to critique yet another itinerary, heres one for you. Im 47 and hubby is 50. Weve been to Scotland together twice before once on a quick add-on to an England honeymoon (April 1993) where we drove up the east coast, spent a few days in the border area, a few days near St. Andrews, and then headed back down the quickest route we could take to London Heathrow area; and then again for a 3 week stay (August 1999) where we spent time in (not necessarily in this order) the Inverness area, Orkney, outskirts of Ft. William, took the train to Morar and spent a day at the beach, went to Isle of Lewis, a hint of Harris and spent a week in Edinburgh for the festival and day trips. We did all our mainland touring via train, bus and our own two feet, wearing our luggage on our backs (a major lesson in packing light for me yikes!) and did the islands via car.

Were really big on mild hiking/walking out in nature (no high peaks, narrow high slippery paths or rock climbing though, thank you very much!), ancient ruins, castles, cathedrals, historic sites, museums, music, art and theater. This trip we are spending 25 days in Scotland including one week at the end of the trip in Edinburgh doing the festival and more days trips again, and the rest of the time we want to see more of the western highlands and islands. Our lodging is going to be as budget as possible (no hostels or camping though, please); we prefer ensuite bath accommodations but are ok with private in a pinch. Were more b&b people (sorry, Sheila!) but are also trying for self-catering in Edinburgh and possibly Skye (although were currently in Skye only 5 days so may not be possible) and are open to self-catering in a caravan (fixed, not mobile). Our flights to and from Scotland are written in stone we cashed in lots and lots of frequent flyer miles from United that we were worried might be worthless by summer of 2006 (which is when we originally intended to take this trip) for first class tickets (yes! I have a chance of getting some sleep!) and these were literally all they had available if we wanted to fly together on the same itinerary.

I usually spend a year planning these kinds of trips, but since I only booked our tickets last week Ive been in hyper-drive trying to get it done while we can still get accommodations booked some of the places I wanted are already booked up (busy season, dontcha know...)

Thu July 21: Arrive in Glasgow at 10 am (after a very long journey from San Francisco via London). Spend the day exploring the city, getting over any jet lag in case I still dont get any sleep; spend the night in a b&b somewhere and get a good nights sleep.

Fri July 22: Take train to Oban, rent a car and drive to Skye via Mallaig or Kyle of Lochalsh. Stay at budget b&b or self-catering place for 5 nights were considering Tir Alaain as a choice if we go the b&b route (thanks to greendragon I hope Im thanking the right person!) as well as Cruinn Bheinn (thanks to TeddG) and Green Gables (thanks to my hours of Internet surfing!).

Sat July 23 Tue July 26: Explore Skye; hike around; wander the beaches; tour any and all castles and ruins we can find; veg out at our lodging; rent bikes; take a boat trip or two; stop and smell the roses and ooh and aah at the wildlife; maybe go across the bridge and take a picture of Eileen Donan. Do laundry on our last night (not glamorous, but necessary).

Wed July 27: Take ferry to Harris; visit some tweed workshops and buy some tweed while were at it; stay for 3 nights

Thu July 28 Fri July 29: Wander the beaches of Harris; watch the wildlife; more veging out if we feel like it; possibly re-visit favorite places on Lewis.

Sat July 30: Head across Lewis and catch afternoon ferry to Ullapool. Stay for 3 nights.

Sun July 31 Mon August 1: Explore northwestern highlands. Im not sure yet exactly what form that will take Im still in the research phase of that part, poring through lots of Fodors message board threads for hot tips on the area, reading the guidebooks, surfing the Internet, etc.

Tue Aug 2: Drive from Ullapool to Mull, via the Lochaline ferry (I remember one of the Fodors threads mentioning that route being more scenic). Stay for 3 nights, possibly the one someone mentioned in Fionnphort (the one with the great seafood restaurant next door? I have the info in one of the threads I saved) or maybe in Tobermory havent decided yet.

Wed August 3 Fri August 5: Explore Mull; tool around Tobermory, see Duart Castle; take one of the wildlife tours (either by land or sea); take boat trip to Staffa; do laundry. Sometime on Friday, hop ferry to Oban, return car and then come back.

Sat August 6: Take ferry to Iona. Stay for 2 nights. Explore Iona, see Abby, maybe rent bikes for our stay.

Sun August 7: More time exploring Iona.

Mon August 8: Take ferry back to Iona, take bus to Craignure, catch ferry to Oban, catch train to Edinburgh. Stay for 7 nights. Im trying to get affordable self-catering flat but it might be budget b&b again either Cameron Toll on Dalkeith Rd. (where we stayed before and loved it), Straven (right by promenade at Firth of Forth...looks great on their website) or Arisaig (mentioned on one of the threads and also looks great on their website).

Tue August 9 Sun August 14: Seeing festival events (more emphasis on the Fringe Festival than the formal one), climbing Arthurs Seat, maybe doing laundry one more time if needed, maybe some shopping and taking day trips via the train we might head over to Glasgow if we were too jet-lagged to do it justice; other places were considering are Aberdeen, Pitlochery (if there are any music or theater events worth going to)and the Trossachs. Im open to suggestions and input in this area, although I also still have more past threads to pore through also. We been to St. Andrews twice together (and I spent 2 weeks there when I was a teenager with a school group) but we might go back again (we like it). Same with Linlithgow Palace, Stirling, Wallace Monument, and Blair Castle loved them last time, might go back if we have time.

Mon August 15: Leave Edinburgh for London on 10:30 am flight. Stay near London Heathrow overnight; catch the tube into London and explore for the day (if we still have any energy left hee,hee). If anyone has any hot tips on budget places to stay near Heathrow, Im open to suggestions. They dont need to serve breakfast, as you will soon see.

Tue August 16: Leave London Heathrow on 8 am flight (meaning we supposedly have to check in by 6 am...Im so excited....).


I see only a few possible minor gotchas in my plans.

1. MapQuest says its about 5 hours from Ullapool to Lochaline. Again, does that sound about right?

2. The song-and-dance to return our rental car to Oban. The alternative is to keep the car parked, unused, on Mull while were on Iona (seems like a waste of money to me).

Also, I might decide to cut one of the days in Harris and add it on to Ullapool to give more time for exploring the northwestern highlands (if you folks think it would be worth it).

All comments, suggestions, hints etc. are totally welcome and if anyone sees any other glitches please let me know!
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Old Jan 17th, 2005, 07:39 PM
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You are planning a terrific itinerary - and are not rushing any of it.

I do have a couple of ideas you might want to consider:

1) I don't really see the advantage of taking the train to Oban and picking up a car there. How important is Glasgow? if you want to see some of the city, your idea of staying there the first night w/o a car is good. Then I'd pick up a car and head north.

But if Glasgow isn't a "must", I'd rent the car at Glasgow airport and travel less than 20 miles to Arden or Luss or maybe along Gare Loch and stay in a water-side B&B.

driving from Glasgow lets you see a lot of wonderful scenery enroute. And you don't have to return the car at Glasgow - depending on a couple of other suggestions you could drop it off in Inverness or Edinburgh w/o any extra charges.

2) I am a little confused - you plan on going through Oban to get to Skye, on your big loop through the Isles, then to Ullapool and then all the way back down to mull. If you have the flexibility think of this route to eliminate so much to-ing and fro-ing.

I'll just lay out the basic route because it is obvious you know what/where most of these things are,

Glasgow to Oban to Mull/Iona (yes keep the car even if you stay over night on Iona - you can park in Fionnphort. The B&B there is called Seaview) to Skye to the outer Hebrides to Ullapool to Inverness. At Inverness you can either jump on the A9 and head to edinburgh, OR, you can drop the car off and take the train to Edinburgh.
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Old Jan 17th, 2005, 11:17 PM
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1. I'd take another day in Glasgow. It is, in its way, a wonderful city and you'll barely be scratching the surface. Try Adelaide's in Bath Street for accommodation.

2. Go the Mallaig route from Oban to Skye. If you mean to spend the day travelling you might want to cross Loch Linnhe at the Corran Ferry and go round Ardnamurchan on the way.
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Old Jan 17th, 2005, 11:35 PM
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Sorry about that. I didn't hit the "post" button, honest.

Is there not more logic in doing Mull on the way north, rather than backtracking?

Tobermory has more about it than Fhionnphort, and is a very pretty town. I'd normally recommend the other way round, but you'll have had "quiet" on Harris by then. The Harbour guesthouse in Tobermory is very nice. I'd suggest you do Iona from Mull rather than Oban, especially if you're staying in Fionnphort. Oh, I see- it's about the car. Can't you hire on Mull?

My two other thoughts are

1. Do the Uists rather than Harris - no real reason other than it's another experience. harris is meant to be very unlike Lewis, so you will already be adding on.

2. Do Coll or Tiree rather than Mull- that makes sense with your Iona agenda.

I would not cut the Harris bit for the north west.

I've got some stuff on day trips from Edinburgh in a document. Email me if you want it.

It is a nightmare to get from Ullapool to Lochaline. 5 hours would be about right
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Old Jan 18th, 2005, 04:08 AM
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we stayed in Harris for 2 days and then spent a day and a bit in Lewis which was plenty. Although Harris is smaller than lewis the scenary and beaches are superb. The weather in Harris was that good that we sunbathed and walked on a 'tropical beach' for hours with no one in sight 'pure delight'. Lewis was a bit disappointing having been spoilt by Syke and Harris although it did rain when in Lewis (you can't have it all your way).

We are planning to visit plockton this year and no doubt I will soon be searching for my own itinerary!
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Old Jan 18th, 2005, 05:02 AM
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Yes, it was I who recommended Tir Alainn... and there is a little laundrette in Broadford, if you need to do your laundry. It's next to the grocery store/convenience store/dentist/gas station (all one building) on the main road through.

Your itinerary sounds great and well thought out. Other than the suggestions above, I think it's wonderful!

Have a marvelous time... oooh I'm so jealous! 25 days!!!!
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Old Jan 19th, 2005, 12:22 AM
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Wow you folks really came through with some great ideas. As soon as Im done sorting through, mapping out etc. Ill come back with my next revision. Weve decided we like Janis basic route order especially the option of dropping the car off in Inverness and taking the train back to Edinburgh (I just love riding on trains Im like a little kid when it comes to them!). Janis and Sheila both had a good point about doing Mull on the way north, instead of on the way back south. That was actually my original plan, until I decided started wondering why should I be paying for 2 days rental on a car that will just be sitting in a parking lot gathering dust? Thats when I came up plan B (and C...and D...and...) I played around with several scenarios, including Sheilas thought about renting a car on Mull separate from the one in Oban...But Ive decided convenience outweighs frugality on this one and, hey Ill be on vacation the more time I spend fussing with the car rental, the less time Ill have to see the sights. So, simplicity it is one car until we drop it off in Inverness and then its trains and busses from there.

Hubby and I are still discussing whether to stay in Glasgow the first night and rent the car from there the next morning or hop the train to Oban after we land, spend the night there and rent the car in Oban first thing the next morning. I guess it all depends on whether we want to spend our jet-lagged coma on a hop-on-hop-off bus tour of Glasgow or on a train to Oban.

As far as Mull vs Coll and Tiree theyre really tempting (and we spent some time ooohing and aaahing over their descriptions in our guide books) but I think Im going to save them for our next trip I dont want to pack too much into this one or Ill need a vacation to recover from my vacation!). Weve both been really looking forward to doing Mull and want to do it properly, spend a day tooling around Tobermory, take a day trip out to Staffa, etc.

Taking a look at Uists vs Harris Ill be looking them over during the next couple days. Theres no way Im scratching Harris off my list entirely Im a lover of sewing and fabric and Ive been dying to go see how they make the Harris tweed (and to buy some for myself). When we were on Lewis and Harris back in 1999, we spent most of the time on Lewis Harris we did on Sunday afternoon because everything was else was closed and, while we were enjoying our gorgeous deserted tropical white sand beach with the turquoise waters, a fast-moving rainstorm rolled in and drenched us before we could slosh back to our car. Ive been looking forward to heading back there and doing it up properly (tweed workshops and all) and Im hoping for a little sunnier weather this time (like TeddG had); the picture of me in on that gorgeous beach has me all bundled up like Nanook of the North (it was that cold that day!). Plus Ive been drooling over some Harris b&bs on the web...overlooking the water...with views of otters and porpoises and other cute wildlife...But the Uists look great too and were both suckers for uncrowded Scottish scenery and old ruins and deserted beaches...and new experiences... So we might still stay on Harris and day-trip over to North Uist. Or maybe ferry over there from Skye to South Uist, drive up to the North and then ferry over to Harris at the end of the day. Ill have to check schedules and such to see how the timing works. Please let me know if that sounds doable.

Another question Ive been checking out northwest highland goodies in my books and they gave one or two lines to something in Ullapool called The Ceilidh Place that sounds rather fun....to visit, not to stay at (would probably be too noisy for that). Anybody have any info on it? Is it as fun as it sounds or just another cheesy tourist trap? Were both big fans of Scottish folk music, fiddlers, celtic rock music, etc. and I love a good rousing ceilidh dance (hubby, I usually have to drag on the dance floor kicking and screaming so I generally have to find another, more willing, partner).

Also, are any of these places doable as day trips from Ullapool: Kyle of Tongue, Cape Wrath, Scourie, Durness, Assynt-colgach, Gairloch? These were more places that caught my eye. Again, not a clue on actual real driving times (vs. the ever-optimistic MapQuest).

Thanks again for your help. And GreenDragon I hope you get back to Scotland again for a nice long trip. We werent originally intending it to be as long as it is, but thats what United Airlines had available and who am I to look a gift vacation in the mouth? Thank God for frequent flyer miles.
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Old Jan 19th, 2005, 03:26 AM
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Although I've stayed in Tobermory in the past & liked it, I would have reservations about staying there now especially at the height of the school holidays. It's supposed to be overrun by 'toddler tourism' due to a popular children's TV program called 'Balamory' which is filmed there.
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Old Jan 19th, 2005, 08:31 AM
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Toddler tourism -- what a great phrase! Thanks for that tip....I think we'll opt for the peaceful sunsets of Seaview b&b after all (assuming they have availability) and then just drive into Tobermory, dodging toddlers as we go...
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Old Jan 19th, 2005, 10:04 AM
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Dodging Highland cattle and sheep on the single track roads on the way to Tobermory and then dodging toddlers in Tobermory - enough to give the timid a coronary

As for your question re the day trips out of Ullapool, all of those places would be easy to reasonable day trips from Ullapool. You'd be on a lot of single track roads of course, but there isn't much traffic and it is fairly easy driving.
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Old Jan 19th, 2005, 10:05 AM
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So, jet-lagged on a train to Oban won out for our first day in Scotland -- car rental was cheaper out of Oban and we're able to get an earlier start on our Mull adventure. We're saving Glasgow for a day trip or 2 out of Edinburgh.

Speaking of Edinburgh, I have a location question -- we're considering a lovely-looking self-catering flat that seems to be in a good location for doing the festival etc. It's on the west end at 16 Glencairn Crescent and the owner has penciled us in while she sends the booking forms and brochure to look over before finalizing. How is that as a neighborhood in general? Her mother-in-law used to live there by herself so I'm assuming it's probably reasonably safe.
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Old Jan 19th, 2005, 10:29 AM
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No, the Ceilidh Place isn't a cheesy tourist trap. It began at least 20 years ago as a sort of home-grown arts venue with rooms and has expanded over the years. Good food at the bistro, too.

Music-wise, you might also want to check out a tiny shop called Hidden Gems, in a small shopping center on Latheron Street (Place?) across from the Safeway. It speciallizes in traditional music and the owner is very knowledgeable. (There's also an incredible hand-dyed yarn and knitwear shop in the shopping center.) I also recall buying a bunch of CDs at a more general souvenir-type shop on one of the main streets (probably Shore Street) with a surprisingly good variety of non-tourist-tat CDs.
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Old Jan 19th, 2005, 10:39 AM
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Glencairn Crescent is perfectly safe. It's in one of the later-built areas of the New Town. There are several hotels and plenty of bus routes nearby. (For me, it's within walking distance of most of the historic center, but there are people who consider anything over a 15-minute walk to be undoable.)
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Old Jan 19th, 2005, 10:40 AM
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I'm not sure if you've deleted Mull from the itinerary. I personally, being a nature-type, would advise staying outside of Tobermory for your B&B. Tobermory is very charming and you can find lots of good things to eat there, but, if your a highland walker-type, you might want to drive out of town a bit and be amidst the countryside. My top pick would be to stay at Achnadrish House on the way from Tobermory to Dervaig on Mull. Not too far away but well worth the drive. You can find it on the web.
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Old Jan 19th, 2005, 12:43 PM
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Thanks for letting me know about the feasibility of my Ullapool day trips Im sure we can handle the single-track roads in the little economy car well be renting (the sheep and cattle will probably be bigger than we are!). From what I remember of our driving around Lewis and Harris last time, there were more sheep than cars on the roads and we were just fine....we just have to relearn patience...

KT thanks for easing my mind on The Ceilidh place and giving me hot tip on the music store...you can bet well be heading to both places when were in town! And thanks for letting me know about Glencairn Crescent. A 15 minute walk is no problem for us. Im also curious though about nearby grocery stores and restaurants but I imagine the owner will probably be able to fill us in on that. Ive also added Achnadrish House to my list of B&Bs Ill be checking out for prices and availability this week it looks really nice. Were really leaning toward staying at Seaview in Fionnphort (for the convenience of the ferry, the view and the seafood restaurant next door), but if that doesnt pan out Achnadrish is next on my list. We're also nature lovers but the convenience of not having to drive very far (if at all) to catch the ferry to Iona or Staffa has it's virtues too.

And Sheila Ill be emailing you momentarily about your kind offer to send me Edinburgh day trip info. Thanks!
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Old Jan 19th, 2005, 01:38 PM
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You can't do Skye to South Uist. Yo can do Skye to Lochmaddy- North Uist- but not Lochboisdale. To get there you have to come from Oban.

My sister stayed at the Ceilidh Place last year slightly off season and it was a disaster- definite 1/10 must try harder.

You could do all of those places as day trip- maybe Kyle of Tongue would be pushing it, but the others are fine.

having spent 2 days in Mul last summer I have to confirm rumours of the Balamory effect which we first encountered on the ferry. It is not restricted to Tobermory. However, I quite liked it, I have to say. What's the story?

Controversial question. Why not miss out Skye- you've been before and those mountains don't change much- and do the Oban-Lochboisdale run. Pick up the Uists and get the little ferry from Berneray to Leverburgh.

Have you looked at the calmac web site?
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Old Jan 19th, 2005, 02:12 PM
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Actually, Lewis is the one I saw before, haven't seen Skye yet but definitely want to this trip. Will do Uists as day trip from Harris (especially since there's no morning Skye>North Uist ferry on day we plan to leave Skye). Did a little Harris on a Sunday last time when nothing was open and want to go back to see more. RE: my Skye-to-South-Uist oops...not sure what map I was using or which pair of glasses I was wearing, but last night it looked to me like it was possible...checked CalMac again and I see what you mean. The Ceilidh Place I'm still thinking of as place to eat or listen to music -- wouldn't want to stay at 1/10 place...thanks for the tip.
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Old Jan 20th, 2005, 12:47 AM
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Glencairn Crescent is in what's known as the West End and it's a lovely area, very peaceful but an easy walk from the centre. It's also a nice walk from there to the Modern Art Gallery and the Dean Gallery, and you can get to the path alongside the Water of Leith at various points nearby. There is a very small Safeway nearby on Shandwick Place. The nearest/easiest to get to large supermarket is the Tesco in Corstorphine, which you can get a 12/26/31 bus to (going west towards the airport). There are lots of restaurants within walking distance.
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Old Jan 20th, 2005, 09:00 AM
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There's also the foods department of Marks & Spencer on Princes Street (assuming that M&S doesn't go under!).
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Old Jan 20th, 2005, 09:24 AM
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Thank you Caroline and KT for the further info on Edinburgh. It's good to know we'll be able to stock our fridge without too much trouble (and have nearby places to eat when I don't feel like cooking!). I'm glad it's a peaceful neighborhood -- that will be a big plus during the festival, where staying at one of the places right in the thick of things could have been very noisy. Will have to check out the nearby art gallery too. It also seems to be quite close to the Haymarket station which should also be a big plus.

Small update -- I've just booked a room for us at Seaview in Fionnphort. After discussing it with hubby we decided that the convenience of not having to get up extra early to drive down a single-track road full of sheep to catch an early ferry to Iona and Staffa was a major plus for us. As gorgeous as Achnadrish looked (and it has a sauna!) sleeping in still won out this time.

As for Skye, I was all set to book Tir Alainn and then a friend told me about a place called Jan & Jed's Cottage about 5 miles south of Portree, with yet another great view of ocean and mountains...with our own private sitting room w/fireplace...very cosy and romantic...so it won out for this trip. If anyone has any info (good, bad or indifferent) on this place please let me know. Here's there website http://www.welcomingyou.co.uk/jan-and-jeds/
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