Giotto's Scrovegni/Arena Chapel -- Day vs. Evening Visit
Jul 8th, 2005, 10:48 AM
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Giotto's Scrovegni/Arena Chapel -- Day vs. Evening Visit
Hi, I'm curious to know if there's a difference between the two.
Why is the day visit 4 euros more? (11 euros plus 1 euro res. fee vs. 7 euros + 1 euro fee?) Is there something special visiting the place in the day vs. at night (I assume the frescoes are still visible in the evening).
There's a "double-turn" ticket which is also 11 euros + 1 euro for the evening. This allows a stay for 30 minutes.
But then, I read this:
"Visits from 7.00 p.m. to 10.00 p.m. are managed by Giotto Co-operative Group, the last turn enters the CTA at 9.45 p.m. and concludes the visit at 10.15 p.m.
The evening ticket is the same for everyone and costs 8 Euro per person."
Ok, if someone buys the 9:45 pm time slot, then why bother paying 11 euros for the "double-turn" ticket?
Thanks for any enlightenment.
Why is the day visit 4 euros more? (11 euros plus 1 euro res. fee vs. 7 euros + 1 euro fee?) Is there something special visiting the place in the day vs. at night (I assume the frescoes are still visible in the evening).
There's a "double-turn" ticket which is also 11 euros + 1 euro for the evening. This allows a stay for 30 minutes.
But then, I read this:
"Visits from 7.00 p.m. to 10.00 p.m. are managed by Giotto Co-operative Group, the last turn enters the CTA at 9.45 p.m. and concludes the visit at 10.15 p.m.
The evening ticket is the same for everyone and costs 8 Euro per person."
Ok, if someone buys the 9:45 pm time slot, then why bother paying 11 euros for the "double-turn" ticket?
Thanks for any enlightenment.
Jul 11th, 2005, 06:51 AM
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Here's how I see it:
Going in with the Cooperativa Giotto gives you 15 minutes in the Corpo Tecnologico Attrezzato di Accesso alla Cappella degli Scrovegni (C.T.A.) -- i.e., the room where you are shown a film about the restoration work and 15 minutes in the Chapel itself.
The "Double-Turn" gives you 30 minutes in the Chapel; you will probably have to spend 15 minutes in the film room prior to entering the Chapel, because it is also intended to adjust temperature and humidity before allowing entry into the Chapel.
Even 30 minutes is very, very short. There are at least 30 frescoes, which gives you one entire minute to look at a single fresco. If you can, study the frescoes ahead of time either in an illustrated volume or, if you have the time, on the computer monitors set up in the multimedia room next to the film and adjustment room. (You have to pick up your ticket an hour in advance, anyway...)
I have never been in the Cappella degli Scrovegni in the evening; I would imagine -- and hope -- that they have made provision for adequate lighting.
Oh, how I long for the days when I used to spend three hours in the Chapel, with the guard letting me out every hour or so to smoke a cigarette!
Going in with the Cooperativa Giotto gives you 15 minutes in the Corpo Tecnologico Attrezzato di Accesso alla Cappella degli Scrovegni (C.T.A.) -- i.e., the room where you are shown a film about the restoration work and 15 minutes in the Chapel itself.
The "Double-Turn" gives you 30 minutes in the Chapel; you will probably have to spend 15 minutes in the film room prior to entering the Chapel, because it is also intended to adjust temperature and humidity before allowing entry into the Chapel.
Even 30 minutes is very, very short. There are at least 30 frescoes, which gives you one entire minute to look at a single fresco. If you can, study the frescoes ahead of time either in an illustrated volume or, if you have the time, on the computer monitors set up in the multimedia room next to the film and adjustment room. (You have to pick up your ticket an hour in advance, anyway...)
I have never been in the Cappella degli Scrovegni in the evening; I would imagine -- and hope -- that they have made provision for adequate lighting.
Oh, how I long for the days when I used to spend three hours in the Chapel, with the guard letting me out every hour or so to smoke a cigarette!
Jul 11th, 2005, 07:05 AM
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Thanks. Are you speculating that the day visit doesn't include the film?
My concern would be what you brought up -- will there be enough lighting to see the frescoes in the evening? But I'd suppose so. I should probably call them.
I think that I'd prefer an evening visit given my limited schedule, but apparently my visit will overlap with the Venice Film Festival. I don't see a schedule yet, but I'd like to find out what's showing that weekend before I decide how to plan my visit. It's conceivable that I'll skip Padova completely if I find a film in Venice more interesting.
It's not every day that I get to visit Venice during the film festival and the biennial.
My concern would be what you brought up -- will there be enough lighting to see the frescoes in the evening? But I'd suppose so. I should probably call them.
I think that I'd prefer an evening visit given my limited schedule, but apparently my visit will overlap with the Venice Film Festival. I don't see a schedule yet, but I'd like to find out what's showing that weekend before I decide how to plan my visit. It's conceivable that I'll skip Padova completely if I find a film in Venice more interesting.
It's not every day that I get to visit Venice during the film festival and the biennial.
Jul 11th, 2005, 07:14 AM
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I evidently didn't express myself clearly enough: ALL visits, day or evening, Cappella directly or Cooperativa Giotto, include the 15 minutes in the film/temperature and humidity adjustment room.
The only difference is the length of time allowed in the Chapel itself. During the day and in the evening with the Cooperativa Giotto, the time in the Chapel is 15 minutes (after 15 minutes in the so-called CTA); in the evening under the "Double-Turn" formula, it is 30 minutes in the Chapel (after 15 minutes in the CTA).
The only difference is the length of time allowed in the Chapel itself. During the day and in the evening with the Cooperativa Giotto, the time in the Chapel is 15 minutes (after 15 minutes in the so-called CTA); in the evening under the "Double-Turn" formula, it is 30 minutes in the Chapel (after 15 minutes in the CTA).
Jul 11th, 2005, 07:23 AM
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Right -- then why would the day visit be 4 euros more? That's the thing I didn't quite understand.
But maybe it's just 4 euros more because the chapel is more popular in the day.
I tend to get suspicious when what appears to be the same thing has two different prices.
But maybe it's just 4 euros more because the chapel is more popular in the day.
I tend to get suspicious when what appears to be the same thing has two different prices.
Jul 11th, 2005, 07:33 AM
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I can't explain why the "ordinary" evening price is 7 Euro (except that it's not really "ordinary"; it is managed by the Cooperativa Giotto, whoever or whatever that may be), while the "ordinary" day price is 11 Euro.
But the "Double-Turn" at 11 Euro in the evening is clearly described, at least in Italian, as a "promotional" price.
But the "Double-Turn" at 11 Euro in the evening is clearly described, at least in Italian, as a "promotional" price.
Jul 11th, 2005, 07:40 AM
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Great, thanks again.
If I get around to calling I'll report back.
By the way, Eloise, I hope you aren't too horrified to think that I'm thinking that I'll have time to make it Siena and see about ten museums and churches in Florence in 24 hours.
If I get around to calling I'll report back.
By the way, Eloise, I hope you aren't too horrified to think that I'm thinking that I'll have time to make it Siena and see about ten museums and churches in Florence in 24 hours.
Jul 11th, 2005, 08:41 AM
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No, I'm not horrified; I know from your previous trip reports that you like to hone in on a specific topic and then rush around (I really can't find a kinder, gentler way of saying that...) looking at the art that best exemplifies it.
I think a "do-it-yourself" course in art history is an admirable thing to undertake; I just wonder if you might not find your travels more enriching if you took an actual course in art history (there must be dozens of wonderful opportunities to do so in NYC) that gave you the basics about the various movements in art and architecture and their most prominent representatives.
Then, in Florence, you would not have to limit yourself to Cimabue, Giotto and Simone Martini or, in Siena, to Duccio di Siena or, in Venice, to Gentile Bellini and Andrea Mantegna.
You could look at Venetian painting from Gentile Bellini right through to Francesco Guardi, Pietro Longhi and the Tiepolos. And if you had all that to look at in Venice, you wouldn't have to catch trains two minutes before they left the station or visit three towns in one day.
I honestly think you would find it just as, or possibly even more, rewarding and certainly much less demanding.
I think a "do-it-yourself" course in art history is an admirable thing to undertake; I just wonder if you might not find your travels more enriching if you took an actual course in art history (there must be dozens of wonderful opportunities to do so in NYC) that gave you the basics about the various movements in art and architecture and their most prominent representatives.
Then, in Florence, you would not have to limit yourself to Cimabue, Giotto and Simone Martini or, in Siena, to Duccio di Siena or, in Venice, to Gentile Bellini and Andrea Mantegna.
You could look at Venetian painting from Gentile Bellini right through to Francesco Guardi, Pietro Longhi and the Tiepolos. And if you had all that to look at in Venice, you wouldn't have to catch trains two minutes before they left the station or visit three towns in one day.
I honestly think you would find it just as, or possibly even more, rewarding and certainly much less demanding.
Jul 11th, 2005, 08:50 AM
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Well, Eloise, that's for Art 1001. I'm still doing Art 101 at the moment.
You left out Lorenzetti, by the way. How could you? I can't skip the "Effects of Good and Bad Government."
Simone Martini is Sienese, by the way, but Uffizi has his "Annunciation." Endlessly reproduced by many art books. But the interesting name that I learned about recently is Fabriano. Also Sienese.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ma...etuffizi15.xml
Telegraph gives "Adoration of the Magi" at #3 ranking (for the Uffizi).
This is a little besides the point, but I came across the AP Art History exam by chance the other day. I started looking at the sample test. I was surprised by how badly I did.
For those curious, take a look at
http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_dow...thist-0607.pdf
Could be fun for a quick fifteen-minute test (just do the multiple-choice section).
You left out Lorenzetti, by the way. How could you? I can't skip the "Effects of Good and Bad Government."
Simone Martini is Sienese, by the way, but Uffizi has his "Annunciation." Endlessly reproduced by many art books. But the interesting name that I learned about recently is Fabriano. Also Sienese.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ma...etuffizi15.xml
Telegraph gives "Adoration of the Magi" at #3 ranking (for the Uffizi).
This is a little besides the point, but I came across the AP Art History exam by chance the other day. I started looking at the sample test. I was surprised by how badly I did.
For those curious, take a look at
http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_dow...thist-0607.pdf
Could be fun for a quick fifteen-minute test (just do the multiple-choice section).
Jul 11th, 2005, 08:53 AM
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http://www.wga.hu/frames-e.html?/html/g/gentile/
My apologies -- Fabriano is not Sienese, but an exponent of "International Gothic" (whatever that means -- I'm taking a look).
My apologies -- Fabriano is not Sienese, but an exponent of "International Gothic" (whatever that means -- I'm taking a look).
Jul 11th, 2005, 09:02 AM
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I gladly give you the point on Lorenzetti (although I did say in an earlier message that the interior of the Palazzo Pubblico in Siena was a "must-do", chiefly for "Good and Bad Government"...).
I know that Simone Martini is Sienese; but his "Annunciation" (the angel wears a tartan cape) is one of my favourites in the Uffizi, which is in Florence.
Gentile da Fabriano's "Adoration of the Magi" is nice, but a bit florid, I find.
I know that Simone Martini is Sienese; but his "Annunciation" (the angel wears a tartan cape) is one of my favourites in the Uffizi, which is in Florence.
Gentile da Fabriano's "Adoration of the Magi" is nice, but a bit florid, I find.
Jul 11th, 2005, 09:17 AM
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You did? I guess I need to read that thread more carefully.
Re Fabriano: That's probably because it's "international Gothic."
Was surprised that Masaccio died so young, actually. At 27 (?).
Supposedly there're some heavily damaged paintings by Perugino at Pazzi in Florence:
http://www.mega.it/eng/egui/pers/perug.htm
Not very well known, supposedly, and missed by most guide books. A friend told me about them and about the Vasari corridor.
Since I'm still on Art 101, I've put these two on the "must miss" list.
Re Fabriano: That's probably because it's "international Gothic."
Was surprised that Masaccio died so young, actually. At 27 (?).
Supposedly there're some heavily damaged paintings by Perugino at Pazzi in Florence:
http://www.mega.it/eng/egui/pers/perug.htm
Not very well known, supposedly, and missed by most guide books. A friend told me about them and about the Vasari corridor.
Since I'm still on Art 101, I've put these two on the "must miss" list.
Jul 11th, 2005, 09:54 AM
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Yes, I did. I didn't mention Lorenzetti by name, but I definitely insisted on the interior of the Palazzo Pubblico, which is where "Good and Bad Government" is/are.
The Perugino "Crucifixion" is in a convent called Santa Maddalena dei Pazzi, not to be confused with the Pazzi Chapel by Brunelleschi on the grounds of Santa Croce. I don't think I'd put it on the "must see" list for Art 101 either, although it's a lovely work that I spent quite a bit of time looking at.
In 10 or so visits to Florence, I have not made it to the Vasari Corridor. I probably never shall, so I'm hardly likely to encourage you to spend -- waste? -- time on it.
But please do me one personal favour: In Venice, go to San Zaccaria (it's within a few hundred feet of the Basilica of San Marco) and look at Giovanni Bellini's "Sacra COnversazione" on the second or third altar to the left: Madonna and Child, Musician Angel, Four Saints. It's the most serene painting I know (despite the fact that St. Lucy is represented holding her eyeballs in a glass receptacle...), and it has none of the saccharine quality that turns me off so many of Raphael's paintings. To me, this painting is a better example of Renaissance humanism than, say, Michelangelo's Doni Tondo in the Uffizi.
Make that two personal favours: Don't rush through the Accademia in Venice so quickly that you miss the tiny room with a number of Giovanni Bellinis and two Giorgiones: the famous and mysterious "La Tempesta" (you will be shocked by how small it is...) and "Col Tempo" (or "La Vecchia"
, whose realism and modernity always, always throw me for a loop. Giorgione didn't make it to old age either: he died at 33.
The Perugino "Crucifixion" is in a convent called Santa Maddalena dei Pazzi, not to be confused with the Pazzi Chapel by Brunelleschi on the grounds of Santa Croce. I don't think I'd put it on the "must see" list for Art 101 either, although it's a lovely work that I spent quite a bit of time looking at.
In 10 or so visits to Florence, I have not made it to the Vasari Corridor. I probably never shall, so I'm hardly likely to encourage you to spend -- waste? -- time on it.
But please do me one personal favour: In Venice, go to San Zaccaria (it's within a few hundred feet of the Basilica of San Marco) and look at Giovanni Bellini's "Sacra COnversazione" on the second or third altar to the left: Madonna and Child, Musician Angel, Four Saints. It's the most serene painting I know (despite the fact that St. Lucy is represented holding her eyeballs in a glass receptacle...), and it has none of the saccharine quality that turns me off so many of Raphael's paintings. To me, this painting is a better example of Renaissance humanism than, say, Michelangelo's Doni Tondo in the Uffizi.
Make that two personal favours: Don't rush through the Accademia in Venice so quickly that you miss the tiny room with a number of Giovanni Bellinis and two Giorgiones: the famous and mysterious "La Tempesta" (you will be shocked by how small it is...) and "Col Tempo" (or "La Vecchia"
, whose realism and modernity always, always throw me for a loop. Giorgione didn't make it to old age either: he died at 33.
Jul 11th, 2005, 10:02 AM
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It seems like the Vasari Corridor has a very quaint reservation system. I had a good laugh when the friend told me about his friendly competition with this other competitive woman who wanted to see the Corridor. I think that spots are limited or something. So they were both rushing to get in, and the woman elbowed him out of the way. But then she made a tactical error or something. But in any case, supposedly they both made it.
I've heard of "Tempest" (and seen reproductions) but have not heard of the other one. Giorgione has been on my radar screen for a while, largely because his paintings are so rare. A friend's favorite painting is the "Concert Champetre" at the Louvre. And attributions are never very certain -- Titian was his pupil, I believe.
I don't know San Zaccaria. I'll try to put this on the list. Surprisingly I don't have a great deal on my Venice list, but that may be because I've not started thinking about it yet.
Did you look at the Telegraph link on Uffizi I included earlier? The writer made a funny remark regarding "Doni Tondo." What are all the naked men doing? And he's right!
I've heard of "Tempest" (and seen reproductions) but have not heard of the other one. Giorgione has been on my radar screen for a while, largely because his paintings are so rare. A friend's favorite painting is the "Concert Champetre" at the Louvre. And attributions are never very certain -- Titian was his pupil, I believe.
I don't know San Zaccaria. I'll try to put this on the list. Surprisingly I don't have a great deal on my Venice list, but that may be because I've not started thinking about it yet.
Did you look at the Telegraph link on Uffizi I included earlier? The writer made a funny remark regarding "Doni Tondo." What are all the naked men doing? And he's right!
Jul 11th, 2005, 10:05 AM
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Oops -- my apologies. That quote about Doni Tondo wasn't from Telegraph.
"Michelangelo’s frankly puzzling Holy Family Doni Tondo (what exactly are all those nude men doing?)"
It's from this link:
http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/arti...0271_1,00.html
I found it through an Fodors thread -- you might have posted this link, Eloise. Or elaine.
"Michelangelo’s frankly puzzling Holy Family Doni Tondo (what exactly are all those nude men doing?)"
It's from this link:
http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/arti...0271_1,00.html
I found it through an Fodors thread -- you might have posted this link, Eloise. Or elaine.
Jul 11th, 2005, 10:18 AM
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How strange! I had NOT looked at the Telegraph link when I came up with the Doni Tondo as an example of High Renaissance art that leaves me totally cold.
Actually, that Times article about three days in Florence was originally posted by Jsmith. I subsequently mentioned it in some of my replies to questions about "What to see in Florence." It's probably the best and most inclusive three-day schedule for Florence that I have seen -- with the exception of the recommendation of the Enoteca Pinchiorri: I do not like to pay over $ 200. for a meal...
Actually, that Times article about three days in Florence was originally posted by Jsmith. I subsequently mentioned it in some of my replies to questions about "What to see in Florence." It's probably the best and most inclusive three-day schedule for Florence that I have seen -- with the exception of the recommendation of the Enoteca Pinchiorri: I do not like to pay over $ 200. for a meal...
Jul 11th, 2005, 10:28 AM
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I think that Michelangelo's figures are not terribly beautiful. Everyone looks mascular. But then that's my personal opinion. Supposedly he was a precursor to the mannerist school.
The Times link is very good. I'm glad that I found it from the archives.
I don't mind splurging for a nice meal, but it seems like Enoteca Pinchiorri has its share of detractors. That's probably enough to give me pause. Also I think that it lost a Michelin star recently (pretty sure that it had 3 stars at one point but now has 2).
Maybe I'll have my nice meal at Da Fiore in Venice (haven't researched it yet).
The Times link is very good. I'm glad that I found it from the archives.
I don't mind splurging for a nice meal, but it seems like Enoteca Pinchiorri has its share of detractors. That's probably enough to give me pause. Also I think that it lost a Michelin star recently (pretty sure that it had 3 stars at one point but now has 2).
Maybe I'll have my nice meal at Da Fiore in Venice (haven't researched it yet).
Jul 11th, 2005, 10:33 AM
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I correct myself again. EP earned a third star in the 2004 edition of the Michelin guide:
http://www.homestead.com/andyhayler/...estaurants.htm
My Time Out guide is from 2003 (the latest I could find from B&N). Looks like I need to dump it for incorrect info (EP had 2* when that guide went to press).
http://www.homestead.com/andyhayler/...estaurants.htm
My Time Out guide is from 2003 (the latest I could find from B&N). Looks like I need to dump it for incorrect info (EP had 2* when that guide went to press).
Jul 11th, 2005, 10:38 AM
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Scrovegni chapel.... was there last year in Sept. That 15 minutes FLIES BY. I was so looking forward to it, and as soon as I left it, I was miffed at myself for trying to see the whole thing and all the individual frescos. If I am ever fortunate to return, I'll concentrate on at most five of them. I too wonder if the evening 30 minutes has enough light. What a privelege to have seen it at all.
