Germany trip
 

Hello, My wife and I are planning a trip to Europe in September. We will be going September 12- October 2. We have a good idea of where we want to go and what we want to do but, we are having a hard time figuring out how long to stay in each place. So, were are hoping for advice on this and how to travel (train, etc...).

Here is the agenda so far:
-fly into Amsterdam and stay 1 night
-go to Brussels, Belgium and stay 2 nights (visit Bruges while here)
-go to Cologne for 1 or 2 nights, visit Gothic Cathedral
-go to Koblenz and visit castles, etc. (not sure on time)
-go to Trier and visit Roman ruins, Berg Eltz, winery (not sure on time)
-go to Strasbourg (2 nights) and the Black forest region, cuckoo clocks, etc... Visit Baden Baden bath house and Casino from here
-go to Lucerne, Switzerland for 2 nights
-go to Rothenburg and Wurzburg (Romantic Road) (3 nights). Rothenburg: Visit Church of St. Jacob, Night Watchman's Tour, walk on city walls and visit towers and gates, shopping at Marc Platz, Christmas village
-go to Munich and Bavaria (3 nights) and visit Neuschwanstein Castle, the Royal Palace, beer gardens, English gardens, Eagles Nest Tour, foothills of the Alps...
-go to Salzburg, Austria (2 nights): Sound of Music Tour
-go to Vienna, Austria (2 nights) and visit Opera House

We fly home from Austria back to the USA.

We are having a hard time deciding how long to stay at each place. We think we have the proper amount of time for a few (as listed above). We have 20 days I believe. Are we staying too long/ too little in some areas? Can we base at one city and go out to others instead of staying there? Should we do this all by train?

We have never been to any of these countries and have no idea how to map out the times.

I hope that someone will be able to help us with this so that we can feel more at ease.

Thank You!
~Mike

Is this your first time to Europe? I think you are spending a lot of time rushing around. Generally, I think you are trying to pack too many things into too few days. You'll be exhausted and not remember what you've seen.

My husband and I instituted a "3 night rule" after our first trip to Germany, Austria & Switzerland. We now stay in one place and use it as a "base" to see the surrounding area.

It looks like you'll have about 2 1/2 weeks -- the first couple of days you'll be jet lagged.

If you're flying into Amsterdam why not spend 3 nights there siteseeing and getting over your jet lag? Then go on to Bruges (that town is so picturesque!) and spend 3 nights. Then make your way to Cologne and down to Koblenz. You may not do everything on your list, but if you slow it down a little you'll enjoy your trip and be able to "soak in" the places you visit.

Just an initial opinion.

Ditto Halfapair. Three nights minimum for major stops. Overnight stops restricted to a tour such as Romantic Road. "Seeing Europe", or anywhere, through the window of a moving vehicle is not the same as "being there" when you sink into the atmosphere of a place worth being.
First suggestion for editing your itinerary: Eliminate Switzerland entirely and add some time to Amsterdam, which is certainly worth a good long look. Come back next time for cuckoo clocks.

Sorry - but you are staying in way too many places - and will spend a very large part of your time riding on trains and getting to and from hotels. IMHO you should stay 3 days (4 nights) in larger cities (Vienna, Amsterdam) and at least 3 full days (3 nights in smaller places). Better to stay in one place and do day trips that constantly switching hotels.In the time you have I would do 5 hotel - no more. And spend some time actually seeing the places you are visiting - versus just rushing madly through each place seeing 1 or 2 sights and then running for a train.

Sorry - 2 full days (3 nights) in smaller places. Moving every night or two will be a huge waste of time, energy and money.

Thanks, Southam!

MikeH45 - you need to get out a map (or Google Maps) and look at how far apart these places are. Look at travel times. Are you renting a car? Taking a train? Look at train tables to figure out how long it will take to get from place to place. Figure in travel time. You will need to check out of your hotel, get to a trainstation (with all your luggage) get on a train, check in at your new location. All of that takes time. And it's a waste of time. The fewer places you stay, the more time you have for sightseeing.

Use this site to look at train travel schedules, travel times, etc: http://www.raileurope.com/index.html

Choose a central location: Amsterdam, Bruges, Cologne, Koblenz and see the sites there. From Koblenz you can rent a car and do the Romantic Road. And that alone will fill you 2.5 weeks.

Think of it this way . . . Every city you have as 2 nights will net you one full day, and each 3-nighter will equal 2 full days

(the one-nighter on arrival doesn't really get you much free time)

Now re-think how many places you really want to see.

Wow! Thank you so much everyone for all of the advice! I wasn't expecting so many responses so quickly!

Yes. This is my first time to Europe and overseas. My wife has been to France but, she stayed in Paris and went out from there. So, there was no moving around.

We were planning on getting train passes. We booked our flights into Amsterdam and out of Vienna months ago. So, we have to start and end up there.

Southam, thanks for the advice on eliminating Switzwerland. We would really like to see it but, my wife and I have talked about all of this and see the taking that part out is sound advice so that we can enjoy other areas better.

We really don't want to stay too long in Amersterdam because we want to spend more time in other areas. Does anyone know offhand if the train goes from Amsterdam to Bruges? I can look it up later. We are just trying to decide whether to stay in Bruges or Brussels. I think we will then stay in Cologne and go to Koblenz (do the Rhine stuff) from there as a day trip (does that sound right?).

Stay in Strasbourg and go to Baden Baden from there.

Still trying to map out the rest.

If anyone has any other suggestions please let me know!

Thanks!
~Mike

I agree that you should probably trim at least a couple of these destinations - spend some time with a map and figure out what makes sense given the roads, mountains, etc. We did a a somewhat similar trip two years ago, you can read the report at: http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-a-toddler.cfm

Should we do this all by train?>

I have done all those places by train and since it is mostly largish cities cars are not much fun in those types of places - parking can cost a ton - about $30/day last time I was in Amsterdam and hard to find - hotels may not have parking - all your places are easily reached by rail and the rail system in those countries is so so fantastic - often 2-4 trains an hour going everywhere.

For your German and Belgium-Netherlands trains you may find the Germany-Benelux Railpass a good deal, especially if you decide on first class as my years of experience traveling trains in those countries makes me strongly urge anyone to do on the trip of a lifetime - you can be sure of just jumping on any ole train in Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg with that pass and in first class always IMO at least finding adjoining empty seats - seats are bigger, more room for luggage storage, etc.

Anyways - great sources for info on trains in those countries - www.bahn.de - the official German Rail web site that is excellent for schedules for trains in all European countries and gives prices for trains involving Germany so you can compare with the pass - the pass is cheaper the more days you buy on it - some days you may want to use the Lander Cards sold locally - good for a small regional but not valid on the fastest trains - just regional and S-Bahn trains - also check out these Uber Gut sites (pardon my German) - http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id9.html; www.seat61.com (good info on online discounts that however are sold in strict allotments and must be purchased often weeks earlier to get and typically cannot be changed nor refunded) and www.ricksteves.com.

Mike - the best place to look up train connections and times [even non-german ones] is the german train website, bahn.de. [they have an english version].

to find out about trains between amsterdam and Bruges [aka Brugge - you may need to use german names for places] I put in a date later this week and found that there are several trains a day, taking from between 3-4 hours, with a minimum of one change.

Depending on the no of trains you are planning to take [which has now been reduced] buying a railpass may not be worthwhile.

personally I would go to Bruges from amsterdam - it is infinitely more charming than Brussels! [and the beer is excellent!]

in your 21 nights, I think i might do something like this:

fly into Amsterdam and stay 3 nights [plenty to do while you recover from jetlag; it's a pretty undemanding place for a first stop in europe]
-train to Bruges - 2 nights.
-scrub Cologne - not worth it just for the cathedral
-go to Koblenz and visit castles, etc. - 3 nights.
-go to Trier and visit Roman ruins, Berg Eltz, winery - 3 nights
-go to Strasbourg (2 nights) and the Black forest region, cuckoo clocks, etc... but don't bother with Baden Baden.
-drop Lucerne, Switzerland as already discussed
-go to Rothenburg and Wurzburg (Romantic Road) (3 nights). Rothenburg: Visit Church of St. Jacob, Night Watchman's Tour, walk on city walls and visit towers and gates, shopping at Marc Platz, Christmas village
-go to Munich and Bavaria (3 nights) and visit Neuschwanstein Castle, the Royal Palace, beer gardens, English gardens, Eagles Nest Tour, foothills of the Alps...
-skip Salzburg, Austria - no time
-go to Vienna, Austria (2 nights) and visit Opera House

personally i would drop Strasbourg as well - it's rather out of your way and it would free up 2 nights which you could use for Salzburg and Vienna.

Mike-

Annhig provided a good itinerary. And I would agree with him to drop Strasbourg and increase the time spent in Salzburg and Vienna, only because of the logistics.

There is one "gotcha", with this itinerary- you will be in Munich during the Oktoberfest. Lodging will be expensive if you make reservations this late. You might want to stay someplace close by Munich (Garmisch, Ingelstadt, Ulm, Augsburg, or even Sazburg) and daytrip into Munich a couple of days.

Have a good time

Good point Travel about the Oktoberfest. I've seen Füssen suggested as a good base in that region as an alternative to Munich.

Regards

Ann [as you seem to have inadvertently changed my sex!]

I have based in Garmisch-Partenkirchen during Oktoberfest and day tripped to the festival from there - about an hour by train - much closer time wise than Fussen.

I generally like annhig's plan but would make a couple of changes...

-train to Bruges - 3 nights.

-train to Cologne (for a short stop) on the way to Koblenz area - 5 nights there.

The Cologne Cathedral is right at the station - just toss bags in a locker for a couple of hours - definitely worth seeing. Stay just 5 nights (vs. 6) total for the Rhine and the Mosel - but don't stay in Koblenz itself, a large, mostly modern place. I'd split my time between St. Goar on the Rhine and then Cochem on the Mosel. From gorgeous Cochem, daytrips to Trier and Eltz by train are simple. St. Goar is home to Rheinfels Castle - and it's a short trip to Marksburg in Braubach, the very best castle to tour on the Rhine; just cross the river with the ferry there and use the train to reach Braubach (about 20 min.)

-go to Strasbourg (2 nights) and the Black forest region, cuckoo clocks, etc... but don't bother with Baden Baden.
-drop Lucerne, Switzerland as already discussed
-go to Rothenburg and Wurzburg (Romantic Road) (4 nights). Rothenburg. Be sure to see the Residenz in Würzburg. Visit Bamberg as well (You are already in Bavaria, BTW.)

- SKIP Munich! O'fest turns it into a human zoo. SKIP Füssen! Go to Salzburg! (4 nights)

You can stop in Prien - on the way to Salzburg - to see Ludwig's Herrenchiemsee Palace, on an island in Chiemsee (lake) in lieu of the Füssen palaces. PHOTO: http://home.arcor.de/oberpfalz-nord/chiemsee.htm From Salzburg: do daytrips to Berchtesgaden (Eagles Nest) and Hohenwerfen Castle if you wish:
http://www.salzburg-burgen.at/en/

-go to Vienna, Austria (3 nights) and visit Opera House

My apology Miss Ann...

do NOT skip Oktoberfest IMO - warts and all one of the world's most famous Bacchanalian fests - even a few hours there will be great and a memory for the rest of life - day trip in yes but spend a few hours at least wandering amongst the various beer hall tents.

And the rest of Munich is largely unaffected by Octoberfest crowds - in fact so many foreign tourists stay away it is kind of off season in many ways.

Do not be scared away IMO from enjoying one of the world's most famous festivals.

I support the guys above, but you are going to miss the world's largest wine festival in Bad Durkheim (in the Pfalz on route between Koblenz and Strasbourg), it ends on the 17th Sept and will have been running for 2 weeks by then. Since there is little else to do there (but drink) you could make it a night stop, the place parties from about 9am to about 3pm but the hotel in the centre (a Accor I think) has treble glazing...

an Accor, sorry

Hi - my two cents' worth:

Instead of big ugly Koblenz, why not stay in the charming Rhine village of Bacharach? I was in Germany-Austria for 3 weeks last summer and it was one of my two favorite places. From there you can take trains to see many of the Rhine castles (but will miss the Mosel - too far). I based in both Bacharach and Cochem, and I would do it over again. The two regions have much to offer. From Cochem, you can take a boat trip to Beilstein (I missed this because chose to go to Beethoven house in Bonn one day) and the other day hike up to Burg Eltz (it was covered in scaffolding last summer - hopefully restoration is completed).

Salzburg was my least favorite place (too crowded) but I was there in July - Sept - Oct may be different.

If you do include Strassbourge (Alsace), consider Colmar as a base, instead. It's smaller and charming - lots to see there, and there are mini-van tours to charming villages in the region (but then you wanted those cuckoo clocks).

You have a lot of big cities in your itinerary. I would trim the number of cities and instead stay in charming places (Rothenburg is lovely - keep it).