Germany/Switzerland trip and train/car advice
 

I’m surprising my husband for his 50th birthday with a trip, the real gift being he does not have to deal with the details. We enjoy a schedule that covers a lot of ground rather than leisurely pace. 5 nights in Berlin is a lot for us, though I know not enough for most, but I thought we should avoid travel the weekend of May 3 and 4. I don’t have an unlimited budget but I hope to have a few special or unique things planned. For example, a trip to the alps and Jungfrau will be a treat, and though I had hoped for a night at the Castle Hotel Auf Schonburg, there are no vacancies. I would love any suggestions that work with our route.

Also, I gathered a list of hotel suggestions from the site but if you have a boutique hotel or family run, local-flavor accommodation that you loved, do share! I don’t always sleep easily, so I’d give up a private bath for a comfortable bed any day of the week. Here is the first draft of the itinerary.

Departure Norfolk, VA 7:45pm 5/27/08

Day 1-2) Arrive Frankfurt 11:45am
-Train to Bacharach, 2 nights
-Train travel to and from Moselkern (Burg Eltz)
-Cruise Bacharach to St Goar. Explore towns.

Day 3-7) Train to Berlin, 5 nights Berlin (maybe 1 of these in Dresden)

Day 8-9) To Munich, 2 nights Munich

Day 10-11) 1-week Car rental
-Drive towards Fussen (Neuschwanstein Castles), 2 nights (possible in Austria?)

Day 12-14) Drive to Lauterbraunnen, Switzerland, 3 nights
-Local towns and Jungfrau

Day 15) Drive towards Frankfurt via Black forest, 1 night

Day 16) Drive to Frankfurt, depart 12:45pm

Is the timing/routing OK? I need some specific advice, below, but will take all the advice I can get!

BERLIN TO MUNICH
I like the idea of experiencing a sleeper but it looks like my choices are a couchette or a single sleeper and request it for two. Can anyone comment on a single sleeper for two and what the added costs might be? Otherwise, it’s a 5.5 hour day train ride. I’m also considering the alternative of a one-day car rental to pick up upon departing Berlin to turn in when arriving in Munich. What is this drive and traffic like, the roads, the scenery? Any recommended stops along the way?

RAIL PASSES
Does getting the pass seem better for our travels? I compared the 1st and 2nd class 4-day German Twin pass with the individual 2nd class rail tickets for this trip as laid out. The cost is so close is price, but I gain the extra benefits of the pass like using it for an entire days worth of train travel and KD Rhine line. Does this use up a day’s travel?

FACTORY TOURS, etc.
We like factory tours and I'm considering 1 of the BMW factories, but I’d be interested in knowing if you went on a factory tour that is a ‘don’t miss’ for those into this sort of thing. My husband and I are in the construction and technology fields. We are building a ‘Green’ home utilizing geothermal, radiant flooring, solar, technology, etc. If anyone has any suggestions on anything to see or tour related to this, I’d love to hear about it.

Thank you for taking time to read through this and your help from other posts.

K-D boats are just like trains in terms of using days on the pass

to get the boat covered you must use a day but you can of course also use trains on the same flexible day (midnight to midnight unlimited boat and train travel)

there are train stations at or near each Rhine K-D dock.

www.k-d.com for schedules

There are often very long lines now at ticket windows in Germany so either use the machines or if the price is about the same go for the pass of course. Passes can be used on any train any time - some ICEs have various pricing but the pass is good on them all for example. Resources: www.bahn.de if you haven't been on it - the German rail web portal with schedules and fares - including discounted SPAR fares which should be booked as soon as you see them to be sure to get it - limited number of seats at those prices and non-changeable non-refundable i believe. For lots of passes and German rail travel i always refer folks to two great resources for on your own travel - www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com - the latter has a toll free phone you can ask experts questions on IME. there are also regional rail passes say for Bavaria and these can be ridiculously cheap but your travels seem mainl to go inter-regional so they wouldn't work). If you have trouble ferreting out the SPAR (discounted fares on bahn.de) there are always very helpful Fodorites like TimS and LarryinColorado and altamiro and others to help you thru it. But i like a pass and the ability to go to the station and hop on any train anytime - very very few German trains require reservations and generally you'll find ample seats, esp in first class. The pass has a special price for folks traveling in couples - the Twin Pass.

Going from Berlin to Munich

Some options I thought of:

Option A
Train from Berlin to Dresden (short trip, appr 2hrs, every 2 hrs)
Overnight
Train from Dresden to Munich next day

Option B
Car from Berlin to Munich. Motorway-only, straight shot south on A9. One third of the road (the central section between A9/A4 intersection and Nürnberg) may qualify as "scenic". The rest is unspectacular, mostly flat terrain. Many opportunities along the road, more a problem to choose places you might like. But since the trip will take appr. 5-6hrs by car, you won't have too many hours left to explore if you want to make the whole trip in one day.

Option C
Check airberlin.com or germanwings.de for cheap airline tickets.

Thank you, thank you so much for replying as I have been waiting anxiously to hear what the experts have to say. I'm watching hotels become unavailable so I'm hoping to have the schedule firm to make reservations this weekend. Then, I'll share the surprise with my husband!

PalenQ, thank you for the info on the passes.

Cowboy1968, I hadn't thought about the train from Berlin to Dresden then to Munich, but I will look into it. I did however, when considering driving, look at the map and thought it might make sense to get up early and drive to Dresden and then spend the night. It would fit into my schedule better to do this on Sunday, May 4. I read that travel will be heavy this weekend and was wondering if this should be considered for this route? Is it feasible to have a car in Dresden?

Would Nuremburg be worth a stop or should I just head from Dresden to Munich?

If we drive between Berlin and Munich, I'll have to compare the train pass cost again. I did make hotel reservations in Boppard so I'll have to find the post about the local daily rail passes. I don't recall reading if one of the local passes will get us from Frankfurt to Boppard? If so, our only non-local train travel will be Boppard to Berlin.

Thank you so much for any help you can give.

Hi D,

>Drive towards Fussen (Neuschwanstein Castles), 2 nights (possible in Austria?)

I wouldn't try to fit Austria into this trip.

For Munich/Fuessen I suggest going by way of Oberammergau and Linderhof. Both are worth a few hours.

You will have to into/out of Austria. Austria requires a road tax sticker (vignette) for driving on main roads - 8E.

The B179 into Fuessen turns into a 4-lane divided highway at the border.

I suggest that you buy a vignette, although some posters have said that it isn't necessary.

You will need a vignette to drive in on the main roads in Switzerland, as well. 39E.

In Fuessen, we liked the www.hotel-hechten.com

You can visit Neuchswanstein and Hohenschwangau on the same day.
www.hohenschwangau.de/556.0.html

Enjoy your visit.

((I))

Though Neuschwanstein Castle gets the most ink of Mad Ludwig's Bavarain fantasy castles i also think that Linderhof is in its own way maybe more impressive - easy to drive by it en route to Munich (and also stop by the famous rural Weisskirche as well)

Driving from Berlin to Dresden is no big deal. Even on holiday weekends, that motorway won't see that much traffic. In Dresden, you don't necessarily need a car, but it's also not a problem to drive in the city (to get to your hotel).

From Dresden to Munich, Nürnberg is okay for a stop. Many people like the city, I don't find it too exciting. Maybe you should wing it, and see if you are up for a stop once you get in the vicinity of Nürnberg.

Renting a car to drive from Berlin to Dresden is totally unnecessary. The train ride is at least as fast and it saves you the hassle of driving in the cities.

Glad you're considering Dresden an overnight stop! Good idea, and most tourists will leave on Sunday, 4 May, so you'll have no major problems finding a hotel in my city (Dresden).

Dresden - Munich is another thing. I personally prefer to drive, because trains are rather slow and require one change in either Nürnberg or Leipzig (ok, that's not really a problem). Also, I don't like the curvy railroad through the mid-range mountains.

If driving you could stop for a couple of hours in Bayreuth which I find nicer than Nürnberg.

I.

>Renting a car to drive from Berlin to Dresden is totally unnecessary.
Agree 100% on that.

My favourite suggestion for a stopover on the way from Dresden to Munich would be Bamberg, but Bayreuth is a good choice, too. Both have much more atmosphere and real, undestroyed historical architecture than Nürnberg.
If you go via Bayreuth by car, don't miss the Eremitage palaces and park on the outskirts of the town. A baroque jewel.

>Also, I don't like the curvy railroad through the mid-range mountains.
Oh yeah ;-)))

<Also, I don't like the curvy railroad through the mid-range mountains.>

How about curvy roads thru the mid-range mountains?

Pal - it was an inside joke with quokka ;-)

Btw, you can choose your speed yourself when driving. If on a train you cannot. These trains that tilt (?) to the respective sides in curves can be a pain if your stomach is not solid.

It was;-)
Explanation: We shared a little Pendolino experience recently.

Those red Pendolino trains that run on some RE and IRE routes such as Dresden-Nürnberg are horrible. They are equipped with tilting technology like the ICEs, but while the ICE shifts gently in and out of the curves, the Pendolino makes too sudden movements that some stomachs don't enjoy.

Well, being a passenger in a car on curvy roads is no better, even worse if in the back seat. With a car you can stop and get fresh air whenever you want, though.

Thank you for all the information. I think I will opt for renting a car when we are ready to leave Berlin for Munich. We are early risers so we can be on road very early and stop in Dresden for several hours if not the night.

My challenge is figuring out the rail costs. Our major rail transportation will be:

day 1) Frankfurt to Boppard
day 2) Boppard to Moselkern
day 2) Moselkern to Boppard
day 2) KD Cruise
day 3) Boppard to Berlin

The Germany Twin Pass 4 day for 2 is about $492-1st class, $362-2nd class. If I'm understanding the rail travel correctly on bahn.de, the trip from Boppard to Berlin would pay for the pass. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

After looking at the schedule, if I get the rail pass, I'm thinking of leaving Boppard early for Koln for a few hours before heading to Berlin, mostly to break up the trip. There is an ICE train from Koln to Berlin. Any thoughts on our rail travels?

Yes full fare could make the pass itself worthwhile

and pass can be used on K-D boats also 100%

But if you can get a SPAR fare on bahn.de for Frankfurt-Berlin then that would or could change the pass efficacy - your other trips of course are fairly cheap and some could come under the aegesis of regional passes (Land Passes) but not sure the boat is covered by those

PalenQ, I didn't see the SPAR fare. I did see the savings fare 25 50 but that requires round trip travel. Can you point me in the right direction? Thank you so much.

Denise: you might already know but in Munich is the main branch of the Deutsche Museum which is concentrating on technology. If you´re interested in that field, you shouldn´t miss it. One of their exhibitions is about energy, including solar energy.

http://www.deutsches-museum.de/en

Oh, and one more point in regard to departure 12:45 PM. If you drive on a working day from the South to Frankfurt airport, you´ll be in heavy traffic if you want to be there around 9:30 or so. Not a lot of fun to drive that route when everybody else is going to work.

It might be an idea to stay the last night closer to the airport, get rid of the rental car and then take a train or a shuttle to the airport in the morning (a possibility would be Mainz or Heidelberg).

If you do visit Linderhof and then drive thru northern Austria only on the route along the Plansee through Reutte and then back into Germany for Neuschwanstein and Hohenschwangau castles, you will not need the Austrian vignette.

Even though there is a short stretch of 4-lane highway between Reutte and the German border, it is not considered an major highway--major routes needing the sticker are designated as "A" or "S" routes; e.g., route A12 or S36. However, if you think you will or might at some time during your trip drive on major Austrian highways, then you would need the sticker.

Denise - i don't know nearly as much about those SPAR fares as folks like TimS and LarryinColorado - if you search either of their names you will find a wealth of info on them

But from what i know there are not SPAR fares always available on a train - they may be sold out by now as they are in limited numbers

the other savings may require you to buy a card in addition? not sure

Nice thing about the pass is you just show up at station and board any train and time - no trains require reservations in Germany except a very few ICE Sprinters which you'll likely never encouter so you can always just hop on - you can make optional reservations for a few euros if you want

Re SPAR fares

kep topping and sooner or later TimS, Ira or LarryinColorado, all gurus at such discounted online fares will surely sort it all out

and again i think if they are not displayed on your initial serach on bahn.de they may not be available

it usually IME gives the regular fares and then will say on the same place if SPAR fares are available and then you click on that for details