Khazidhea

Hey all, sorry for creating yet another 'first time Europe' thread to join the masses available already. With this is on my mind a lot this will likely be a long post, so I'm grateful for your forbearance for taking the time to read and help out in anyway you choose.

I'm in the midst of planning a 5(ish) week trip through Europe in September, and would appreciate any opinions/advice/recommendations you have to offer. For some of this I'll be travelling with a friend, we're both in our late 20's.

I'm interested in seeing more of scenery with some architecture and cultural sights thrown in than history and other attractions. Also without a whole lot of specific plans, and as I'm mostly going by myself I've got a fair amount of flexibility, but I'm of a type that will likely set a rough plan, and then book flights/trains/accommodation well in advance.

This is my plan so far:
http://www.travellerspoint.com/membe...&tripid=722056

Italy (6 days):
Rome, Florence, Venice
Switzerland (5 days):
Geneva, Lauterbrunnen, (maybe) Lucerne, Zurich
Germany (9 days)
Konstanz, Freiburg, Stuttgart/Baden-Württemberg, Berlin. Finishing later at Munich, at Oktoberfest
Iceland (6 days)
Reykjavik
Eastern Europe (6-7 days)
Budapest & Szentendre, Hungary; Vienna, Austria; Prague, Czech Republic

I'm aware I'm including quite a lot, but so far haven't been persuaded to cut down the list any further.

From this I was wondering if there were any cities I should pick up/drop on the way from Geneva to Zurich. Also one option would be to include the Glacier Express in between Italy/Geneva; would this be a good option or better to focus on what I've got already?

Also was hoping for recommendations of what stops to include for the south-western Germany leg. Will be arriving in Konstanz, and I'm considering various attractions such as Zeppelins and Europa Park, Baden Baden, a night in a castle hotel near Stuttgart.

If you've seen the map it's a bit of a mess after Prague, ignore that. That's mostly to accommodate a few specific dates/places (such as music), and as a result of working around the preferences of a friend who's joining me for the middle three weeks of the trip.

I've got much more I could add about the attractions in each city/country, but I've taken up enough of your time as it is. If there is a reasonably compact/smooth flowing route between most of the above I'd be happy, but really any opinions on any of the above would be appreciated.

bilboburgler

Can you describe your day? It looks like

Get up, pack, check out, catch a train, check in, pick up some info on the new town, walk outside for a few hours, supper, sleep.

Repeat.

I suspect you need to be clear about how many days you want to spend in a city. For instance, I'd struggle to be in Venice for less than 2 nights. Have you allowed for this.

Khazidhea

I've still yet to nail down what each day will look like, but in general for many places it'll be 2 cities in 3 days. The SW Germany leg will probably be like you describe, a city per day.
Others will get 2 full days, such as Geneva and Vienna, and others will get 3+ days, like Rome, Berlin, Munich, Budapest. Only planning for a night in Venice, for me it's not a key stop.

bilboburgler

Swiss cities are a bit meh, but do focus on the countryside and some of the smaller towns, often neat and pretty with wonderful surroundings. Plus prices become more reasonable away from the big cities.

PalenQ

If you are going to even half those destinations by rail investigate some kind of railpass that except in Italy lets you hop on any train anytime - full flexibility and if over 25 is first-class, another big benefit - could be the cheapest way for a series of longer trips.

Anyway for lots of great info on European trains check these superb IMO sites: www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.seat61.com. For schedules go to the German Railways European trains online schedule site - www.bahn.de/en.

tom_mn

I don't admire your trip. A frantic 2 weeks like that I could sustain, but not 5. With 5 weeks I would want something slower paced knowing I would still be covering a lot of ground. Drop Iceland?

Sassafrass

A short, fast paced trip can work. The longer you go at that pace though, the more of a blur everything will become. That pace allows time only to look at a few things, not to absorb the culture or flavor of a place.

Kathie

"in general for many places it'll be 2 cities in 3 days." It takes time to get from place to place - not just the actual travel time but also, packing up and checking out of your lodging, get from your lodging to the train stations, waiting for the train, etc. Thus, if it's a short distance you will lose half a day, and or longer distances, close to a full day. You don't seem to have taken this into consideration. Moving around that much eats up time and money.

I highly recommend that you prioritize the places you want to see and make sure you are spending enough time there to see/do/experience the things you want. Otherwise you will come home having seen lots of trains and train stations and little of the substance you were looking for.

I agree that cutting out Iceland will help, but you still have lots of editing to do.

PalenQ

Geneva, Lauterbrunnen, (maybe) Lucerne, Zurich>

which places to eliminate between Geneva and Zurich - well Geneva and Zurich for starters and spend the whole time in the awesome Jungfrau Region around Lauterbrunnen - so much to see and do there and a few days in Lucerne - Geneva and Zurich are modern cities that though nice leave many underwhelmed - the Alps are the absolute highlight of Switzerland IME.

If you hit 4 cities or plaes in 5 days you have little time in the places themselves. Why Geneva and why Zurich with so little time?

Khazidhea

Thanks for the responses. Wow, I knew I was trying to do a lot, but didn't realise that the actual reality would be this hectic. What would be the best recommendation of balancing wanting to go everywhere, and taking the time to enjoy doing so? 2 days per smaller city, with a travel day in-between?

If at the top of my list is Germany, Iceland, Hungary and Austria, what would be recommended?

Something more like:

Rome (3 full days + 1 day travel)
Florence (2 full days + 1 day travel)
Venice (1 full day + 1 day travel)

Munich (3 full days + 1 day trip + 1 day travel)
Konstanz, Freiburg, Stuttgart/Baden-Württemberg (1 day including travel at each)
Berlin (4 full days + 1 day travel)

Iceland (6 days, including travel)

Budapest (3 full days + 1 day travel)
Szentendre (1 full day)
Vienna (3 full days + 1 day travel)
Prague (1 full day + 1 day travel)

I'm probably still trying to do too much, but is this at least a step in the right direction?

bilboburgler

Maybe a day out to Eger from Budapest, it is looking better.

FHurdle

I'm not sure why you've got Iceland at the top of your list. Likewise, as a matter of personal preference I'm not a fan of Munich. If you book ahead you can get a really cheap train fare from Venice to Munich. But if I were booking I'd only stay one night in Munich and then be on my way.

PalenQ

I'm probably still trying to do too much, but is this at least a step in the right direction?>

Yes much better but a little more honing to do - you've dropped Switzerland - reconsider that - something incredibly different in the Alps - everyone loves the Jungfrau Region - base in Grindelwald and you call it totally awesome!

Travel_Nerd

You’re getting there, but I think you still have some scaling back to do.

Is this your plan—starting in Germany and Italy, heading to Iceland, and then back to Central Europe? If it is, rethink that plan. I’m all for Iceland, but it seems completely out of place for your trip, especially if you’re truly wanting it in the middle. If you start in Iceland and head east to Italy/Germany and then on east it is better, but still a bit much, in my opinion.

I know you mentioned that you have a friend that wants to visit Prague, Budapest, etc. Why is it that YOU want to visit any of these places—all of them that you listed? To me, it is almost as if you’re naming cities. Is there something in each one that you truly, truly want to see? As in you will kick yourself with regret if you miss it?

You aren’t going to want to hear this, but you’re young. You don’t have to do see everything now. What you can eliminate now, save for the next trip. You will go back. I only say this because I’m not much older than you and I’ve learned the hard way to take it slow. Yes, you have 5 weeks, but even with this rough plan, that 5 weeks is a bit haphazard.

My vote, remove Iceland from *this* trip. Add more time in the other areas you’re planning. Prague deserves more than just one day, for example. Yes, you can “see” the sights of Prague. But sometimes just relaxing at a Czech pub or café and watching the locals-and tourists-is an experience that you can’t even put a picture to.

But again, ask yourself, “Why Berlin? Why Florence? Why Iceland?” If it is just to tick boxes from your bucket list, what will you truly gain from it? Anticipate experiences rather than just sights. You may get to Freiburg and want to stay longer, but can’t because you’re onto the next train station to the next city.

Fussgaenger

"I'm interested in seeing more of scenery with some architecture and cultural sights thrown in than history and other attractions."

Your more recent itinerary is heavily slanted toward major cities - not scenery - and in the case of Germany, major cities that were almost totally destroyed in WW II.

You'd be wise to include 2-3 days in Switzerland - the Bernese Oberland - for great scenery.


"Also was hoping for recommendations of what stops to include for the south-western Germany leg."

Baden-Baden is casinos and spas. Freiburg is a city with a pleasant main square but it's not in the Black Forest (where you would find some great scenery AND some old-world towns with half-timbered buildings.) After Konstanz you could make a stop there if you wish but I think the villages along the Black Forest Railway meet your travel goals better.

http://www.black-forest-travel.com/p...t-railway.html
Gengenbach: http://www.stadthotel-gengenbach.de/...innenstadt.jpg

Ride the trains for free in the Black Forest if you stay in a small KONUS town:
http://www.dreisamtal.de/en/service/konus.php?lang=en

"Munich (3 full days + 1 day trip + 1 day travel)
Konstanz, Freiburg, Stuttgart/Baden-Württemberg (1 day including travel at each)
Berlin (4 full days + 1 day travel)"

I think I count 13 days altogether. Suggest you choose ONE major city (Berlin OR Munich) for 5 days. It looks like you have 8 additional days in Germany. Spread them between Switzerland, Konstanz - Lindau - Meersburg - Friedrichshafen, the Black Forest... then your castle near Stuttgart, then move on to Berlin or Munich.

Khazidhea

Thanks again for the continuing replies. I'll probably go through these in detail over the next few days, so not much more to add at this time.

Initial impressions:
"Maybe a day out to Eger from Budapest"
-Yet to look into this, this is a new recommendation that I haven't seen elsewhere yet, but I'll take it under consideration.

"I'm not sure why you've got Iceland at the top of your list. Likewise, as a matter of personal preference I'm not a fan of Munich"
-Each to their own, I've heard preferences across the board, and all are welcome, but at this time I still really want to go to Iceland so that's staying. Munich could go, but would like to at least see Oktoberfest for a day.

"heading to Iceland, and then back to Central Europe? If it is, rethink that plan. I’m all for Iceland, but it seems completely out of place for your trip, especially if you’re truly wanting it in the middle."
-Everywhere else I've heard have suggested that Iceland could be anywhere during the trip, as it'll be out of the way no matter what. So far the cheapest flights I've seen were from Berlin, hence why it's placed there for now, but moving it wouldn't be much of an issue.

"I know you mentioned that you have a friend..."
-This is largely my trip, he's just tagging along for the middle section. Has been a bit annoying to reorganise so I'll see the places he's already visited before/after, but not really that big of a deal.

"You aren’t going to want to hear this, but you’re young. You don’t have to do see everything now. What you can eliminate now, save for the next trip...even with this rough plan, that 5 weeks is a bit haphazard."
-I've heard this before, and undoubtedly it's good advice. However I'm using this trip to have a bit of a taste for a lot of places, which will give me a better idea of what to focus on next time, for a dedicated trip to just one or two places. I know this might be quite foolish, but it's still my plan for now.

"My vote, remove Iceland from *this* trip. Add more time in the other areas you’re planning. Prague deserves more than just one day, for example."
-I'd be much more likely to remove Italy before Iceland. Same goes for Prague, I have some interest in visiting, but that interest is below that of Budapest/Vienna etc.

"Your more recent itinerary is heavily slanted toward major cities - not scenery - and in the case of Germany, major cities that were almost totally destroyed in WW II."
-Black forest + Castle hotel (as silly as that latter desire may be) were my main draws for Southern Germany, so definitely can mix up which cities I go to. Am considering including just a few days in Switzerland, would Venice - St Moritz - Glacier Express to Visp - Lauterbrunnen - Konstanz be at all viable?

Should've clarified earlier, as I'm definitely going for many of the big city attractions, but in between options like the Black forest, Swiss Alps, the 'Golden Circle' and various castle tours (Neuschwanstein) were the attractions I have a preference for.

bilboburgler

Eger is where the original Bulls Blood comes from. The central University tower has a 18th cent observtory on the top. The local spa is pretty good (very much the cultural thing to do) and the old centre is pretty.

Khazidhea

Scratch the Glacier Express/Bernina Express. They look like they're a bit too far out of the way, and too much time on trains/travel getting there, then spending all the next day on a train as well

Khazidhea

A few changes, looking more like:

Rome (3 full days + 1 day travel)
Florence (2 full days)
Venice (2 days including travel)
Lauterbrunnen (2 full days + 1 day travel)
Lucerne (2 days including travel)
Konstanz, Stuttgart/Baden-Württemberg (1 day including travel at each)
Munich (3 full days + 1 day trip + 1 day travel)
Vienna (2 full days + 1 day travel)
Budapest (3 full days + 1 day trip + 1 day travel)
Copenhagen (overnight)
Iceland (6 days, including travel)
Berlin (4 full days + 1 day travel)

inspiredexplorer

Where are you coming from? The U.S.?

If so, I would recommend putting Iceland at the beginning or end of your trip. Icelandair has good connections to many cities in Europe and US, and can be a less expensive way to fly to Europe in general. You'd be treating Iceland like a 6 night stopover.

I'm in Iceland now and am absolutely loving it, and would come back in summer for a seasonal contrast. I don't think you have to cut it out, but putting it at the start or end would eliminate backtracking.