larry - Rail Europe does sell fully flexible open tickets after all - talking to Byron at BETS (800-441-2387), a RailEurope agent, he just told me that they do issue fully flexible open tickets for Germany - he explained that the info on RE web site is inaccurate and applies only to the seat reservation which is included with most fares where seats are reservable

(RE takes the fare and adds $11 onto it automatically for a reserved seat) and this is why the site says non-refundable, non-exchangeable and he says or at least thinks that that ticket can be used on any other similar train. It is not refundable however but apparently fully flexible. Anyway he says they do issue fully flexible open tickets in Germany thru RailEurope.)

It is clear that RE can and BETS do issue fully flexible German tickets - but i don't know about the wording on the web site about non-exchangeable from the train reserved - whether indeed it can be used on another train like Byron suspects but is not sure.

BTW - this is just for clarification as i think you want to know all policies - i applaud you for your efforts at highlighting the cheaper fares - esp the regional or Lander passes that are so useful for folks staying in one region, etc.

And please repeat your new web site - i forgot to bookmark it and want to see it (for others Larry has compiled beaucoup tips on German trains on his own web site)

Cheers

BTW, in pricing tickets from RE, I was careful to only look at the fare for all-regional connection, the types of trains I would have ridden with the Länder-Tickets.

For Rothenburg to Berchtesgaden, the 9:06 train connection out of Roth odT to Munich, changing in Steinach and Treuchtlingen, is all regional and costs $144 for two from RE. The only afternoon connection from Munich to Berchtesgaden shown by RE is via IC. However, it arrives later than the regional connections shown on Bahn.de, and the fare $112 for two, is the same.

So, Rothenburg to Berchtesgaden tickets from RE would cost $256; we did it with a Bayern-Ticket for &euro;27, $43. The RE tickets would cost almost <b>6 times</b> as much.

The trains on these routes are almost entirely regional. There were only a couple places where express trains (which we could have used with a railpass) would have saved any time. Those time savings came to 1hr 31min over the entire 5 days.

I personally would rather ride regional trains than ICEs, which are often quite full and don't stop much

I love the regional trains that are often sparsely full - unless the not unusual school kids mob on board as has happened quite a few times and even this is fun to see how German kids act, etc. (about the same as Americans - loud and moving around a lot)

But if i were doing Berlin to Munich i'd much rather take the ICE since the distance is so long

But for shorter hauls i'd rather be on a regional train than an ICE - i also love to stop at sleepy stations and see folks getting on and off, etc.

To me the train ride is my trip - the cities or stops in between are mere footnotes.

The Bayern Ticket is subsidized by the state of Bavaria for a number of reasons.
It's just not fair to compare a ticket subsidized by tax money with a standard rail ticket, is it?

Logos, it is a fair (fare) comparison if <u>I</u> am buying the ticket.

Anyway, I imagine the subsidy is a lump sum to run the trains. I have never used a Bayern-Ticket on a regional train that did not have seats available (usually lots of them), so I figure my presence increases their revenue (or decreases the subsidy) over if I were not there.

So, as for that ticket from Munich to Berlin, you can go online in advance and buy it from RailEurope for $193 (plus as much as $18 for shipping), and if you miss the train it will cost you at least $38.60 (and they won't refund shipping) to &quot;get&quot; your money back, or can go online in advance to Bahn.de and buy it for $46.40 on a Dauer-Special, and the most you could lose is $46.40.

Actually, this is a case where you would be better off going to Bahn.de and buying a full fare, standard ticket, really fully flexible, no 20% refund charge.

Someone recently wrote in about buying a ticket for three or four people from RE. One person decided not to go, so she tried for a refund. They cancelled the entire ticket (everyone), at 15% or 20% of the total, and wrote a new ticket for one less person. Her refund was actually only 5% or 10% - AND, she had to pay shipping all over again.

I would think the Deutsche Bahn as a whole runs a pretty good defecit - they are often in red ink but i do not know who picks up the tab

&gt;lump sum to run the trains.
The subsidy of the Bavarian state is on those tickets. Lump sum is from Germany. So it makes a difference.

I am glad to report that there's a happy ending to my sad story a while back: I had purchased online from www.bahn.de a ticket from Amsterdam to Hamburg, but it never arrived before we left on our trip at the end of June. When I e-mailed Bahn to ask for their help, they wrote back telling me to buy the ticket in Europe and then send it to them with a request for a refund when we returned home. So I did that. Today my credit card was credited the full amount of the ticket we bought in Amsterdam, which was higher than the one I got online! So I am very happy with Bahn. In the future, though, I wouldn't buy a ticket online unless it were the kind I could print at home. I would just get it in Europe.

Also, thanks to you rail experts, we did buy a Lander ticket for three of us to get from a small rural town to Hamburg, and it saved us quite a bit. Thanks, everyone!

happy ending thank you

For future reference for anyone needing to call Bahn.de the number is (49) 1805 14 15 14 and folks report getting great help in English with just such problems as Jane had.

49 is Germany country code - add 011 from U.S. to get international connection