Germany Rail Pass -or- Länder-Ticket? (Hamburg, Hannover, Ulm, Stuttgart, Munich & Zurich)
 

My husband and I are traveling to Germany (from New York) in September and are wondering which is more cost effective...the German Rail Pass (Twinpass) or Länder-Ticket?

We'll be flying into Hamburg, but staying with friends in Hannover for 4 days before heading south to Ulm for a wedding. We'll be in Ulm for 6 days, making daytrips to Stuttgart one day, Munich the next and then Fussen another day. We will conclude our trip by heading to Zurich (Switzerland) for 4 days before flying back to home.

As you can see, we have a quite a trip planned out and we're trying to save some money and skip the car rental. Seeing the country by train/bus sounds like a blast, but we're unsure which tickets to buy? Any suggestions???

We'll need the following trains:

Hamburg to Hannover (one-way)
Hannover to Ulm (one-way)
Ulm to Stuttgart (round-trip)
Ulm to Munich (round-trip)
Ulm to Fussen (round-trip)
Ulm to Zurich (one-way)

If you want to deal with the restrictions on Lander Tickets you'd probably be better off since lots of your travel is in Bavaria and the bargain Bavarian Ticket will even take you to the Swiss border about i think.

Compare prices for inter-Lander tickets at www.bahn.de in euros and compare to pass prices - the more days you put on a pass the cheaper per day it becomes - extra days on a Twin pass run about $20 a day i believe - www.budgeteuropetravel.com for pass prices and expert advice. Search here for LarryinColorado who is Fodor's guru on German Lander Tickets and other cheapies like the Weekend dirt-cheap tickets. Hannover-Ulm will be your biggest fare and maybe you can scour www.bahn.de for a cheap SPAR fare.
If you want flexibility and will pay walk up prices the cost of that trip along will make the pass potentially attractive.

Great suggestions PalenQ! Quick question though...what a SPAR fare?

on the bahn.de site you'll see (if you highlight 'details for the above' after first info comes up prices for that train in euros. And it may also say SPAR fare available - these are i believe online only discounted tickets sold in limited numbers and if they remain it will say SPAR fare available and click on it for details.
I assume if it doesn't say SPAR fare then non exist for that train so try another. Larry knows more about these than i do but i think that's the gist of it. SPAR fares are generally for longer train rides i believe like Munich-Zurich and Hannover/Hamburg Ulm. If you find one and want it don't wait or it could go away by the next time you look.
Again to me the value of the pass is that it can be used on any train any time in Germany with the exception of the rare InterCitySprinters - can use on all crack ICEs without reservations or supplement, etc. Eliminates the need for scouring for SPAR fares, Lander-Tickets, etc. But in many cases if you want to do the work it would pay off if you don't desire flexibility to take any train any time. Walk up fares can be scary. The pass is a better deal in 1st class as it doesn't cost all that much more than the 2nd class pass and you'll find lots more empty seats in 1st class. 2nd class is rarely full but 1st class not only has bigger seats but more room for leisurely stowing luggage and often lot more empty seats. You can make reservations with a pass if you like for a few euros in Germany.
Pass or not - it's no longer a simple equation like it used to be when all trains costed one flat fare and was easy to compare.

The daytrips from Ulm are pretty long. Using a Laender ticket will cost you 6 hours' travel time Ulm-Füssen-Ulm. It's 8 hours to Zurich and back, even with the faster trains. Urge you to reconsider the long stay in Ulm with those destinations.

And you could consider the new Germany-Switzerland Eurail pass which passes for train travel in both countries, including boats on lake Lucerne and lake Zurich. starts at 5 days of travel of your chosing over a 2-month period for around $330 p.p. in 1st class (only) and comes in 6, 8 and 10-day versions. A Saverpass that is, with two names on one pass - cheaper than two individual passes. The German pass comes in a Twin Pass, similar but can only have two names on it - saverpasses can have 2-5 - so 3 folks traveling on a German pass would have to buy one Twin and a more expensive p.p. single pass.

I appreciate the input on travel time! Now I'm a bit worried about using the train as my only means of transportation...I had planned various daytrips to Stuttgart one day, Munich the next and Fussen another day.

I was under the assumption it would be a 2-hour ride from Ulm to each of the locations (one-way). I was all set to head out around 9am, have lunch in one of the towns and do some sightseeing before heading back to Ulm in the evening. Am I crazy think the trains are a good way to get around???

I forgot to mention, most my travel concerns will be starting from Ulm (homebase). When we're in Hannover and Zurich we'll be staying with family and won't need to use the train much.

My train routes in question are:

9/26
Ulm to Munich (roundtrip)

9/27
Ulm to Stuttgart (roundtrip)

9/30
Ulm to Fussen (roundtrip)

probably better off with pt-pt i suspect and bavarian ticket but check www.bahn.de

German Twin Pass, at $175 p.p. for 4 days of unlimited travel in one month is your benchmark - and it can be used without formality on any train
if going first class the pass will stack up much better as first class pass prices not all that much more than 2nd class.

Using Laender-Tickets from Ulm, the earliest (on weekdays) you can get to Munich is 12:04 (0 changes); Fuessen at 12:55 (2); Stuttgart at 10:24 (0).

I don't see any problem with those day trips. You probably know that the Munich and Fuessen trips will be on Bayern tickets, but Stuttgart is in Baden-Wuerttemberg. All tickets are 27 € when bought from the machines in stations.

Robespeter: the 27 euros is that p.p. or is that for 2 or more than two or does each have to buy their own pass. At least on weekends i think there are some specials for more than 1 or for the weekend at the price of a normal one-day ticket. Thanks.

All the one-day tickets (Laender, Happy-Weekend) are good for five travelers. Here's the pitch:

http://www.bahn.de/p/view/internatio..._tourist.shtml

thanks Robespeter: so a couple would in effect pay only 13.5 euros a day for the typical 27 euro Lander ticket and 4 only 6.75 a day - got to be one of Europe's biggest transport deals.

German Rail twin vs. German-Swiss saver passs.

German Rail has a long running promotion called Europa-Spezial. You can find it from the DB homepage under Surf&Rail International. Tickets are limited in quantity, train specific, require a three-day advance purchase, online only, and are non-refundable. One-way travel is possible, and tickets can be printed on your home computer.

You can get Europa-Spezial tickets from Stuttgart to Zurich, one-way, for €19 per person. Travel is in 2nd class by ICE; trains leave Stuttgart every 2 hours from 10:04 to 20:04. Using a €27 Baden-Württemberg-Ticket to Stuttgart, the earliest train you can catch to Zurich is 12:04, but the full fare 2nd class regional fare is only €31,20 for two people, and would allow you to catch the 8:04 or 10:04 train. The 10:04 gets into Zurich at 12:48.

So, taking the 10:04, Ulm to Zurich can be done for €69.20 ($94 @ $1.36/€). A 4 day, 2nd class German Rail pass costs $346; add Ulm to Zurich and it comes to $440. A five day Germany-Switzerland pass costs $664. Thus, five days of travel, using a DE-CH pass, will cost $224 more than using a German Rail pass. Unless you really want to ride in 1st class, that is a lot more to spend.

Regulars on this site know that I love to beat the system, to find less expensive ways to get around in Germany using SparPreis fares and Länder Tickets. However, this is a case where it might be better to have a pass.

First, your four shorter days, Hamburg to Hannover and Ulm to Munich, Füssen, and Stuttgart can be done with Länder tickets:
Hamburg to Hannover, Niedersachsen-Ticket, €26,
Ulm to Stuttgart, Baden-Württemburg-Ticket, €27,
Ulm to Munich or Füsen, Bayern-Ticket, €27 each day.
None of those days costs more than the cost of an added day of a German Twin pass.

However, Hannover to Ulm changes everything. Full fare by express trains is a least €103 per person and takes about 5 hours. You could do the trip using regional trains and Länder tickets (Niedersachsen-, Sachsen-, and Bayern-Tickets) for €79. On a weekend day, it would cost only €33 for a Schönes-Wochenende-Ticket. However, regional trains would take over 10 hours. I think I would recommend the express trains in this case.

If you bought a SparPreis ticket, round trip for two, the price would be €154; you could just throw away the return part of the ticket.

So, using the SparPreis and Länder tickets, travel from Hamburg to Ulm and three daytrips would come to €261. If you do Hamburg to Hannover with the Niedersachsen-Ticket and the other four days with the German Rail twin (€254 at $1.36/€), the total would be €280. I don’t think that is enough difference to justify the advance purchase of the SparPreis ticket and waiting until 9 AM to leave Ulm for Munich and Füssen.

Of course, if you ARE willing to spend 10 hours and 6 train changes getting to Ulm on a weekend day, you can do the five days for €140. The savings (€140 = $190) might be worth it.

Finally, for €59 per person (SparNight fare), you could book a 2-person couchette (Kajütliegewagen) on the night train from Hannover (00:46) to Augsburg (6:32). The regional fare for Augsburg to Ulm is €14,20 pP. That’s €146,40 for both of you, €253,40 with the Länder Tickets. Versus the railpass, you save €27 plus a night’s hotel, and you gain a day for sightseeing.

Larry recommending a pass! Heavens temegertroids. (sp/) Ah it used to be so easy when trains all were priced according to distance and you didn't need a calculator and phD in math to figure out the best options.

What can I say. I try to be completely objective. Notice I also suggested using regional trains on the weekend to save big €€ or using a night train to avoid a night's hotel cost and gain a day of sightseeing.

The only reason I don't usually endorse rail passes is that they usually aren't the best deal. People tend to jump blindly for them because they don't know enough or aren't patient enough to do the analysis.

And, it doesn't take a PhD. It is simple math, you just have to be analytic.

What makes the railpass competitive in this case is the hyper-jump from No. Germany to Bavaria. I wouldn't recommend this kind of travel. Pick an area and research it thoroughly, and you will find there is plenty to see. In this case, if you start in No. Germany, stay there. Visit Lüneburg Heide, the Harz, Goslar, Wenigerode, Hameln, Göttingen, maybe Holland or Sachsen. Don't go jumping all over, wasting travel time and money.

BTW, with a Bayern-Ticket, you can't leave Ulm before 9 AM, but the first stop to either Munich or Füssen is Memmingen. A P-P ticket from Ulm to Memmingen costs €9,60, so for €19 for can leave an hour earlier and still only pay €46.

Larry again very impressive data - i was of course using a bit of hyperbole with the PhD comment but i still like railpasses because they are, in Germany at least quite cheap and it takes all the complex calculations out of it. And then you don't think as you go along, do i want to take this train trip, etc. And the ability to just hop on any train anytime - no restrictions as with Lander Tickets, SPAR fares, etc.
But for a small region the Lander Ticket would be my choice for sure and i agree it's nice to dwell in a small area. Yet many folk are like me and are going Frankfurt-Berlin-Switzerland, etc and the pass can pay for itself in these few long train trips as well.

But i applaud and am awed by your input to help people realize all the options and not just myopically look at the railpass.

I just thought of another possible solution. Four times a year, German Rail runs a "seasonal" promotion. Right now, until May 15, they are running the Frühling-Spezial (Spring special). You can go from anywhere in Germany to anywhere else in Germany using express trains (ICE/IC/EC) for as little as €29 per person one-way. Virtually all of the €29 tickets for the Spring Special have already been sold; then they go for €39, €49, up to €59 per person. These tickets require a 3 day advance purchase, but, of course, if you wait that long they will probably all be gone. You can purchase them online or, for an extra €5, at a counter. You can self-print the tickets at home.

They seem to run these promotions for about a month and a half, starting from the first of the month following the start of the season (in this case starting Apr 1 and ending May 15). In that case, they probably won't be running the Sommer-Spezial while you there, but it might bear checking before you get a railpass.

Frühling-Spezial (Spring special

Larry - are these only for second class travel or similar deals in first class?