Germany question for quokka or Larryincolorado (or others)
 

From a recent post about travel around Karlsruhe, it appears that quokka and Larryincolorado are from, or are very familiar with Karlsruhe, and it's surroundings.

Husband and I are planning our 30th wedding anniversary trip to BeNeLux and Germany in October. We want to visit Oberowisheim, which is on the S32 line (Rastatt-Menzingen)and Eppingen on the S4 line. Several of my eighth-great-grandparents were born in Oberowisheim C.1609, and at least one seventh-great grandparent was born in Eppingen, so my heart and soul are calling out for me to take a journey to my past.

QUESTION - Are either of you (or anyone else) familiar with Oberowisheim or Eppingen? There is very little information available on the internet.

QUESTION - How would I address a letter to the "old Lutheran Church" in Oberowisheim, where the family records are located in the Parish Register? We would like to visit the church, maybe view the family records, and definately wander around the cemetery. Maybe also an address for the town hall?

Any information would be greatly appreciated. Peace, Robyn :)>-

TTT

I am off to class this morning (UC Denver)- German classes, of course, but I did find some websites that give addresses for the churches in Oberöwisheim and Eppingen. I'll post them tonight or tomorrow morning.

I did note, however, that the websites are entirely in German. Quokka might be able to dispute this, but I think you might have a problem if you write in English.

Don't be discouraged by websites that are only in German. If you see a place that appears to let you make a posting, go ahead and do it in English. Yau are likely to get a response in English. I did this a couple of years ago and it led to connecting with my family and a visit to the house where my Grndfather was born. I Googled Oberowisheim and there are many references to genealogical work being done. Many different families. Might be worth a check just to see if yours appears.

Try Cyndislist.com.
It has links for form letters to be sent to German Churches.

If you can't find it post again and I will look it up for you as I don't have time right now.

Good Luck!

OMG, Robyn, you're making me proud... My handle is in a headline... :)

1. Oberoewisheim (put the extra "e" in to substitute the two dots on the "ö") is situated North-East of Karlsruhe, not far from Bruchsal, in a hilly landscape named the Kraichgau, which is not spectacular but quite pretty. The village is part of a larger community named Kraichtal. I'm not familiar with the village itself but with the area.

Address your letter to the parson to:
Evangelisches Pfarramt Oberoewisheim
Bachstr. 27
76703 Kraichtal-Oberoewisheim
Germany

Their phone and fax number is: 0049-7251-6506 (from inside Germany: 07251-6506)
E-Mail: ev.pfarramt-Ooe(at)gmx(dot)de

I think you can write in English. They'll be able to cope with that, or know someone who does.

Address of the town hall of Kraichtal (situated in Münzesheim, Oberöwisheim doesn't have one of its own)
Stadt Kraichtal
Rathausstr. 30
76703 Kraichtal-Münzesheim
Germany

Information on the web (in German):http://www.kraichtal.de/index.php?id...ut=&style=

2. Eppingen. Again, their website is in German only: www.eppingen.de (surprise surprise)
Protestant church in Eppingen: http://www.kirche-eppingen.de/ (address etc. at "kontakte")

Just a silly question, concerning the 17th/18th century church registers: Are you familiar with the old German handwriting? It's not that easy to read, there are even hardly any Germans who will be able to. I'm dealing with handwritten documents from those times quite often, so I know what I'm talking about.

Thank you, everyone, for your quick replies, especially Larryincolorado and quokka. It's folks like you that make Fodor's a great place to visit!

quokka - I deeply appreciate the contact info for the church and town hall. I would never have discovered the addresses on my own.

Concerning the Parish Register, I'm more interested in just seeing the artifact than I am trying to retrieve any genealogic information from it. I had never really given it much thought, but now that you pointed out the old German handwriting, I will be sure to take special note of the different style, if I am indeed lucky enough to view the register.

My goal is to be able to stand in the same church that several generations of my family worshipped, got baptized and married in, and hopefully, were eventually buried in an adjoining cemetery.

I'm also hoping the town hall might let me know if any ancestors still live in the area. The family name I'm most interested in locating would be Schropp (Schrope), which is one of the family names you will get if you Google Oberoewisheim. Other names I'm interested in are Heckner, Kessler, Trautwein & Schibel.

QUESTION - Can you help me with the pronunciation of Oberoewisheim? I've come up with several possible ways to pronounce it, all of which are probably wrong!

quokka - One last side note, before I head off to bed...you mention that there aren't many people left who can read the old German style...which reminds me of my mom and her sisters, who always spoke Pennsylvania Dutch when they got together. Unfortunately, they never passed the language on to me or my generation, and it's now becoming a dying language. The only phrase that I can remember from my childhood was a pow-wow hex my mother would recite whenever I hurt myself - "Heila, heila, hinkel-dreck. Bis marya frie iss olles veck".

Thanks again, everyone, for your help. Peace, Robyn :)>-

Hi Robyn,

I'm glad to be able to help you!

Your mother's verse sounds like the dialect of this area to me - it says: heal, heal, chicken-dirt, till tomorrow morning everything is gone (pain, worries or whatever)

My mentioning the old German didn't only refer to the style of German but to the handwriting, which will look similar to this: http://www.stama.tritse.de/bilder/liebesbrief.jpg (the only example I found in my quick search on the web - a love letter from 1629 - just to give you an idea what you are facing...)

The pronunciation of Oberoewisheim... is clear to me, but how to put that into phonetic writing which is understandable for English speakers?
Ö or oe is a sound between o and e, a clear long vowel, hard to describe in other letters (sorry, I'm no linguist). The German w is always pronounced like the English v, and the ei in "heim" is exactly like the i in "crime". S and h must be separated, no "sh" sound. So it becomes something like "Ober-[oe]vis-hime".

About realtives of yours still living in the area, ask the parson, too. He'll know, probably better than the town hall, whom to ask - in practically all villages there is somebody who is interested in history, does some research and knows everything and everyone.

Good morning, quokka, and thank you for your response.

Your language lesson was quite valuable, although I have one more question about the pronunciation. Does "Ober" sound like 'over', with -the accent on the "O", or does it sound like "Oh-Bear", with the accent on the "ber"?

I checked out the links you provided and found an english page at Kraichtal.de, so I will be sure to write to them as well as to the church parson for any info they might be able to provide me about Oberoewisheim and my kin folk.

I found a pretty good map of the Kraichgau area, which helps me put everything into perspective. The web link is:

http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com...0049photo.html

The level of excitement grows with each little tidbit of information that I discover.

Thanks again for all your help. Peace, Robyn :)>-

My mentioning the old German didn't only refer to the style of German but to the handwriting, which will look similar to this: http://www.stama.tritse.de/bilder/liebesbrief.jpg (the only example I found in my quick search on the web - a love letter from 1629 - just to give you an idea what you are facing...)


It's not only the different style of handwriting, the spelling has also changed over the years.

Robyn,

Get a copy of this book: If I Can Read Old German, You Can. I think that is the correct title but try Amazon. Very helpful.

There is also a free online class through Brigham Young University.

Good Luck.

The text isn't Sütterlin which was developed much! later, but is actually written with latin letters. It shouldn't be to difficult to decypher. :-).

Artstuff,

Here is the correct title. If I Can You Can Decipher Germanic Records. Author: Edna Bentz.

It is harder than it looks but can be done.

I'm excited for you!

Hi artstuff, I wish you good luck in your quest to trace your German ancestry! My father-in-law is of German descent and we hope to try to track down some of his ancestors while we are living here in Germany.

A good trick I learned to pronounce the "o-umlaut" is to try saying the word "further" without the "r." The odd "u" sound that you make is a close approximation to o-umlaut. Try to make the sound come from the back of your mouth rather than the front.

Robyn, the stress in "Ober" is on the O. And then another stress on the "oe".
(Sorry for not replying earlier, I've been away for a couple of days.)

Let me add a few remarks about the handwriting.

The example of 17th century handwriting I gave is an extremely tidy and easy one - I've seen much worse.

This isn't 20th century Sütterlin. Most people who have learnt Sütterlin will already have difficulties when trying to read documents from around 1800, let alone older ones. I do not know the book mentioned, but things aren't that easy.
And no, these aren't Latin letters. Some letters are similar to the Latin ones, others aren't.

Hardly any German(!) is able to read 16th/17th century documents. Even trained historians need years of struggle and experience to become fluent readers. Believe someone who earns her living with that skill.

Hello, quokka, and thanks again for the language lesson. I think I have now figured out how to pronounce Oberoewisheim.

Upon checking my notes, I have re-discovered that the birth & marriage records from the Parish Register of the Old Lutheran Church, from at least 1727 (my 5th GGparents), are available on micro-film! I'm hoping I will be able to view those records, as well as the original record book, with records dating back to at least 1609 (my 8th GGparents).

Quokka - The work you do sounds very interesting. How lucky you are to get to touch the past every day.

Have a great day. Until I think of my next question....Peace, Robyn :)>-

Topping this thread for GantCT

Looking for <b>quokka &amp; GandCT</b>...

Update on Oberowisheim and Eppingen:

I wrote to three different places, Kraichtal, Eppingen, and somewhere else (can't remember now). I only received a response from Eppingen, from a wonderful woman who has arranged for her daughter, a university student, to meet us at the train station in Eppingen with her car, and tour us through Eppingen, Oberowisheim and Maulbronn, for, what we felt, was a very resonable fee.

The woman at eppingen.de has also arranged for a hotel room for the evening in Ittlingen (nothing available in Eppingen that was accessible to the train station).

We're overjoyed with this women's generosity and help in planning a much anticipated journey to my ancestral homeland. How cool!!!

And thank you Kathrin (quokka), for your help with contact information. I will be sure to post a trip report, when we get back late in October.

Carol (GandCT) - Surnames in my family tree, from the Oberoewisheim area, include Schropp (Schrope), Hockner (Heckner), and Trautwein. The Ke&szlig;ler's are from Eppingen, and I'm not sure where the Schibel's are from. Any chance we're related?

Robyn :)&gt;-

Artstuff - your post got me scrambling for my wife's geneological files since her ancestors also came from the same general area of Germany. When you mentioned that you could trace the family back to the 17th Century (just like the wife's family) and that Pennsylvania Dutch was spoken I was imagining a connection. At first I thought yours and hers were from nearby towns, but it looks like her family left from a small town (Wiebelskirchen) a little farther North near Saarbrucken. They settled in Bucks County Pennsylvania. Unlike my own family hers were distinguished farmers and churchbuilders as well as soldiers during the American Revolution. Do you have any info on what ship your ancestors took to America? Maybe they were shipmates. Where in PA did they settle?

Zeus - I can trace my lineage to Ober&ouml;wisheim through the family name of Schr&ouml;pp. Other sur names include Ke&szlig;ler, Scheiblein, Trautwein &amp; Heckner.

In late summer of 1751 my 5th great-grandparents, Johann Christopher Schr&ouml;pp and his wife of two years, Catharina Henrica Scheiblein, boarded the ship &quot;Neptune&quot;. John Mason from Rotterdam was the Commander. Their final European stop was at Cowes, England on the Isle of Wight.

The ship arrived at the port of Philadelphia, PA on Tuesday, 24 September 1751. All passengers were taken to the court house to take their oath of allegiance. Their certificates were signed by William Peters, Esq. There were 284 passengers on the ship &quot;Neptune&quot;. Women and chidren were not included on the passenger list.

Records of my 5th g-gfather's arrival can be found in &quot;Pennsylvania German Pioneers&quot; by Ralph Beaver Strassburger &amp; W.J. Hinke, and also &quot;A Collection of Upwards of 30,000 Names of Immigrants in Pennsylvania from 1727 to 1776&quot; by Israel Daniel Rupp.

They settled in Philadelphia for 3-6 years before moving to Sussex County, then Hunterdon County, NJ, where they lived for 34 years as farmers and raised a family.

On 13 May, 1786, at the age of 59, my 5th ggfather, who now went by the name of Christopher Schrope, received a warrant for 277 acres of land in Pinegrove, Schuylkill County, PA, signed by Benjamin Franklin.

After the Indian raids, he &amp; his wife and one of their 3 sons (my 4th gg-father) moved to Pinegrove, where they were successful farmers. My 4th gg-father served in the Revolutionary War. In addition to being among the original settlers of the area, the Schropes were also pioneers in the field of education.

Christopher Schrope's story, which is similar to many of the pioneers of that time, is one of the reasons that I am so drawn to visit Ober&ouml;wisheim on our travels... as if I'm taking a small piece of him back to his homeland.

What part of Bucks County did your wife's family settle in? I grew up in Montgomery and Bucks counties.

Robyn :)&gt;-

Hello Robyn, I see your post is now more than 3 years old, so this may not catch up with you at all, but I wanted to try. Johann Christopher is also my 5G-Grandfather, so we must be cousins. from what you say, you have to be descended through either Andrew or Christopher, and since you grew up in PA, I'm guessing Andrew. Same for me; I was born in Lebanon, PA, now live in MD. Would love to hear how your trip to Germany went, it sounds like exactly what I would like to do -- maybe in another year. Best wishes.

Hello Robyn -- as Edgewater says, this may not catch up with you because of the age of the post -- but I wanted to mention an interesting coincidence --- your 5th great grandparents came in 1751 on the ship Neptune. Two hundred years later, in 1951, I came on the ship Neptunia (from Bremerhaven to Hoboken)!
Hope you found what you were looking for in Germany in October of 2007.

What a great story, I hope Robyn comes back on board and sees this to find you Edgewater. Good luck :)

<b>Hello Cousin Edgewater</b> - I haven't been around the Forum for a couple months now (too busy with life getting in the way of living), but had a few minutes to spare at work this afternoon and decided to pop in for a quick visit. What a surprise to see your post!!

Yes, I'm descended from Andrew (4th GGF,b.1758), then John Sr (3rd GGF,b.1784), then Andrew (2nd GGF,b.1807), then John C (GGF,b.1833), and then my Grandmother, Mary Elizabeth Schrope (b.1872). If our first common ancestor is Johann Christoph Schropp (5th GGF,b.1727), then that would make us 6th cousins!

My husband and I had a wonderful time touring through Germany in October 2007. Visiting Oberöwisheim and Eppingen were highlights of the trip for both of us. We were met at the Eppingen train station by Barbara, the woman I had been in contact with (her daughter was busy studying for finals). Barbara spent the next 8 hours with us, taking us all over the Kraichtal region and sharing the history and customs of the area with us. It was such a rush to walk on the same streets that my 5th, 6th, 7th & 8th GreatGrandparents travelled on. You can read all about our exciting adventures on my trip report link:

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...rip-report.cfm

If you're planning on taking a similar trip in the future, please feel free to pick my brain for info.

<b>travlsolo2</b> - What a neat story/coincidence. Thanks for sharing. Not only did we find what we were looking for in Germany, we discovered there's a whole lot more to see. We'll definately be going back at some point.

Robyn :)>-

Good morning! Topping for my Cousin Edgewater....

Robyn :)>-

Well... I guess I missed my cousin. From his profile, it looks like he was visiting Fodor's just the one day, February 11th.

This is a time when I wish Fodor's offered some kind of private messaging system, so you could contact another poster, through Fodor's, who isn't always around everyday to check the threads.

I can only hope maybe Edgewater will stumble on this site again in the future. Until then....

Peace,
Robyn :)>-

I just saw your posts regarding Oberöwisheim. My father was from Oö. and I just visited cousins there 2 weeks ago. I have an Oö. Ortssippenbuch that lists German family names, children, births, deaths, etc. from the mid 1550's to about 1920. I can also read the old schrift handwriting that not many people know now. If you are interested in a particular name, I could look it up in the book. I saw the name Schropp mentioned and that appears in the book and my father's great, great, great, great grandmother was Susanna Barbara Schropp. Not sure you will get this message since your original posts were from several years back. I live in Ohio.
Heidi

Hello Cousin - So great to hear from you! I am getting ready to go to work this morning, but I will check my family records this evening to see if and where Susanna Barbara Schropp pops up. Do you have your family records, so we can compare?

I have searched several times for a copy of the Ortssippenbuch. That is so exciting that you have a copy, and can read it!!! In April my husband and I made our second trip to Oberöwisheim (our first was in 2007). It was very surreal to walk the same streets that my ancestors have walked. We also visited Eppingen; one of my Schropp GGFathers married a woman from there. BTW, I live in the foothills of the Pennsylvania Poconos, right off of I-80.

Robyn :)>-

Topping - Looking for heidig728

Robyn :)>-

Hi. It may be a little late as there has not been a post on this thread in a few years, but I felt like giving it a try. My line has been in Northern NJ since the late 1700's or early 1800's. The son of Johann Christoph Schropp. I am trying to do more research on anything earlier than Andreas Schropp, but am coming up emptyhanded. It would be great if you had this information.
Thanks
Nick

Hi. It may be a little late as there has not been a post on this thread in a few years, but I felt like giving it a try. My line has been in Northern NJ since the late 1700's or early 1800's. The son of Johann Christoph Schropp. I am trying to do more research on anything earlier than Andreas Schropp, but am coming up emptyhanded. It would be great if you had this information.
Thanks
Nick

You probably mean the Andreas Schropp who has been born in 1660. The records about his ancestors have probably been lost in the Thirty Years' War which raged from 1618 to 1648. Many church archives were burnt in this war. Your family is not alone with this problem.

Yes. That was the person. Thanks for the information. That is probably the reason I have been able to find nothing.

Hello Nshrope1 - I, too, am a descendant of Johann Christoph Schropp (5th GGFather) and I have compiled a good deal of information about the family, including some church baptismal and wedding records. I would be happy to share what information I have. Are you on Ancestry.com?

Robyn :)>-

Looking for NShrope1..... Hello cousin.... are you out there?

Robyn :)>-