Germany Itinerary

Old Jan 21st, 2015, 03:36 PM
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Germany Itinerary

Hi! We're in the beginning phases of planning our time in Germany. There are still a lot of unknowns/things we need to decide, but what we are thinking of right now is something like this. We will be there in June.

Saturday--arrive by train from Paris, into Munich. see some of Munich
Sunday--See Dachau
Monday--See Kings Castles
Tuesday--Leave to get to Berlin?
Wednesday--Berlin
Thursday--Berlin
Friday--Day trip to Wittenberg
Saturday--fly out of Berlin and home

The problem I'm running into right now, is figuring out the best way to see the Kings Castles sites/our Munich time. I was thinking of sleeping in Fussen and going to the castles from there, just because I thought it was a bit of a trek to day trip from Munich, I know it's technically doable, but staying in Fussen seems more relaxing?

I also thought initially of trying to pull a day trip to Austria from Munich, but I don't think it's feasible with everything else we want to see/train travel time etc.

I've wondered if it's better to go from Paris to Fussen, and then head up to Munich, and then to Berlin. Or if it's better to do the Munich/Fussen/Berlin route. The whole point of staying in Fussen is so we can just go in the morning to the castles and see them, so depending on when we leave Munich, I'm not sure I'm accomplishing my purpose.

Then there is the added complication that I'm currently waiting to hear from a fourth friend who might be joining us in Germany, and if that's the case, she'd be flying into Munich, and I don't know if it's a good idea for her to try to figure out how to find us on her own if we stop in Fussen first from Paris.

Hopefully this makes a bit of sense. Any suggestions would be helpful and appreciated!
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Old Jan 21st, 2015, 03:50 PM
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I suspect you don't have an objective tool to evaluate your options. www.bahn.com tells you what each segment involves. Paris-Füssen is about 7.5 hrs, while Paris-Munich is about 6 hrs at best.
Munich to Füssen is not a complicated trip unless done super early in the morning. www.bahn.com shows you that there are trains with no change or one change. Many tourists do this.
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Old Jan 21st, 2015, 04:01 PM
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After seeing Dachau I needed about two days to vomit, so you might want to factor that in.
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Old Jan 22nd, 2015, 08:55 AM
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To get to Fuessen from Paris you would have to go through Munich anyway.

It takes 2 hours to get from Munich to Fuessen by rail, presuming you aren't going to take a packaged day trip.

Your choice is doing that as a daytrip and taking 4 hours return, or packing up in Munich and taking 2 hours to travel down, unpacking, settling in for 2 nights (no sense staying just one night and heading back to Munich only to unpack and then repack the next morning for your train to Berlin) If you stay 2 nights in Fuessen it will take you 8-9 hours to get to Berlin versus just 6 from Munich.


I think the daytrip makes more sense or you get an itinerary that looks like this (overnight location & travel)

Munich
Fuessen (2 hour train from Munich + pack/unpack/haul)
Fuessen
Berlin (9 hour train from Fuessen)
Berlin
Berlin
Berlin


as opposed to this

Munich
Munich
Munich (4 hour return daytrip to Fuessen)
Berlin (6 hour train)
Berlin
Berlin
Berlin

Leave Munich at 8 am and be in Fuessen by 10. Leave Fuessen at 6 pm back in Munich at 8.

And I do support your 3/4 split choice between Munich and Berlin, especially if you arrive later afternoon in Berlin and plan a full day trip to Wittenberg.
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Old Jan 22nd, 2015, 09:00 AM
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If you leave Paris at 7.25, go to Munich because you might arrive too late at Fuessen in order to visit the castle the same day.
If you leave Paris at 15.25 or 13.09, it might be advantageous to travel directly to Fuessen. You could so enter the castle at 8am resp 9am, before the arrival of the crowds (prebook your entry tickets nevertheless).
Paris dp 13.09 may be the best solution: you could spend the whole morning in Paris, have lunch on board of the train and arrive at Fuessen at a decent time (20.55).
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Old Jan 22nd, 2015, 09:21 AM
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If you're into overnight trains there are some from Paris to Munich and between Munich and Berlin - save valuable travel time on an itinerary that is already ambitious and the cost of a hotel. Book at www.bahn.de/en and you may get nifty discounts.

For a lot of great info on overnight trains and trains in general I always spotlight the following info-laden sites: www.seat66.com - goo dinfo on discounted tickets; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

In Bavaria be sure to use the Bavarian Pass to go anywhere in Bavaria by train for a pittance. You are not traveling enough on trains to consider any kind of railpass - discounted tickets will save you a ton but you give up flexibility as they are train-specific and have severe rules on changes and refunds and as they are sold in limited numbers on each train often must be booked weeks in advance to guarantee - yet the savings can be significant - especially on Paris to Munich and Munich to Berlin - your other trains are mainly regional ones that can be bought locally at a flat fare and again keep the Bavarian Pass in mind (buy it at any German train station - can even go to Salzburg Austria on it! (A great day trip from Munich).
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Old Jan 22nd, 2015, 10:48 AM
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There is no direct night train from Paris to Munich. The only thing you can do: Paris dp 17.55 - Duisburg ar 22.00, dp by night train (sleeping cars, couchettes) 22.57 - Munich ar 7.10
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Old Jan 22nd, 2015, 12:09 PM
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Yes Germany is slicing international night trains it seems - especially on routes where high-speed trains allow easier day time connections and of course cheap airline competition.
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Old Jan 22nd, 2015, 12:49 PM
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Thank you for all the help! You were confirming my thoughts on several things.

Just curious, what would be your top things to see in Munich? I've been looking at tour guides, but am not seeing a lot that is interesting me yet. It seems like a great base for day trips etc, but the actual city? The Residenz and maybe a city walk were the things that stood out.

We aren't into the drinking scene, or art museums.
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Old Jan 22nd, 2015, 06:25 PM
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I've spent half my life in Germany, and I also can't see what the point is about Munich - - except that people who LIVE there, LOVE it (a German cultural thang).

The center is a bombed/rebuilt mess - - a few elaborate reconstructions amidst lanes of concrete boredom. I don't think there is anything particularly redemptive about visiting Munich at all.

But I'm sure others have a better perspective?
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Old Jan 22nd, 2015, 07:11 PM
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JAustenFan

Paris to Munich is quite a hop, and in particular you are heading due south, when you are flying out of Berlin which is due east of Paris. So you have a bit of a logistical challenge here.

Do you want to see a few quaint towns in Germany and some castles? There are other castles to see besides the "king's" castles near Fuessen, and also you should note that you need a timed ticket to enter Neuschwanstein. It was a pleasant stop, but I am not sure I would go to the trouble that you will need to do a detour from Paris-Berlin to see it.
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Old Jan 23rd, 2015, 07:38 AM
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"I've been looking at tour guides, but am not seeing a lot that is interesting me yet. It seems like a great base for day trips etc, but the actual city?"

As I think you've already learned, Munich is not a great place for day trips. You will spend 5 hours just getting to the "Kings Castles" and back.

Munich is good for some but do not go to Munich if there is nothing there for you!

The "Kings Castles" by the way are not castles - just late 19th-century palatial homes. Neuschwanstein is kitsched up to look like a castle but it's not.

You mentioned wanting to go somewhere "relaxing" in your first post. You are coming from Paris into Germany, correct? And you are going to Berlin, correct? If you want to see some castles you should stop in between Paris and Berlin where the real castles are - and that's the Rhine/Mosel region, a scenic area with many old-world towns where you'll have a more relaxing time and save yourselves hours of travel.

You can leave Paris in the morning and reach Cochem in 4 hours. Cochem's Reichsburg Castle and nearby Burg Eltz (one of the best preserved castles in Europe) are both very worthwhile. Spend 3 nights here before you head to Berlin.

Cochem: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ade_Cochem.jpg
Cochem's Market Square: http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/22771917.jpg
Reichsburg: http://www.german-way.com/travel-and...cochem-castle/
Reichsburg falconry show: http://www.falknerei-reichsburg-cochem.de/fotobuch.htm
Burg Eltz: http://www.burg-eltz.de/en.html
Kolb River cruises from Cochem: http://www.moselrundfahrten.de/en/
A cruise to Beilstein is fun: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...2-08_CN-01.jpg
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Old Jan 23rd, 2015, 07:44 AM
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I should have mentioned that instead of Dachau you can visit a concentration camp near Berlin. Sachsenhausen:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sachsen...entration_camp
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Old Jan 23rd, 2015, 07:45 AM
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Oh... and have your friend fly into Luxembourg, Frankfurt, or Cologne-Bonn airport instead of Munich, if she decides to show up.
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Old Jan 23rd, 2015, 09:35 AM
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I think I'm in the minority, but we've enjoyed Munich many times (5-6 different trips). Altes Pinakotek is a fabulous art museum (I know art's not your thing), the Residenz and Nymphenburg (one of Ludwig's places) are easily accessible. Schleissheim Palace is not far away. The Staats Oper is fantastic. My favorite of Ludwig's castles was Herrenchiemsee; it's his version of Versailles. We also loved the Bertchestgarden (spelling?) area in the late spring. Munich has good shopping (and I don't like to shop). The Virtualienmarkt is fun. We've been to many of the churches and all were interesting in their own way. We climbed the tower at the church by the Virtualienmarkt and took the elevator up the Frauenkirche tower. Husband loved the Deutches Museum. There's lots to do even if you don't drink (which we do, love German beer almost as much as Belgian beer). We stayed at the affordable Eder Hotel close to the centre to town for the Christmas Markets in 2008 and 2012. It's not Paris, my absolute favorite, but it has a lot to offer, imo.

Good luck with your planning!
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Old Jan 23rd, 2015, 10:34 AM
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ACK, I got my compass directions a bit squewed, this is what happens when one posts late at night and doesn't bother to consult a map.

Berlin is north-east, not east, of Paris. Munich is due east, but takes you on a detour because the most direct train line goes Paris-Frankfurt-Berlin.

The reason I'm pushing you to the Rhine castles is that they are more or less on the most direct train route from Paris to Berlin, which passes through Frankfurt. Google suggests one route as being the TGV Paris to Karlsruhe (just north of the pleasant spa town Baden-Baden) where you switch to the ICE that heads north to Frankfurt, and thence east to Berlin. No, they aren't the "King's" castles but I promise, they ARE castles.

If you switch at Frankfurt to a slow train and briefly backtrack, you are in the region of various castles, some ruined, some not.

Do as greg urges and use an objective benchmark for evaluating your itinerary. Google 'Paris', click on the map, click on the 'directions' in the upper left hand corner, and you can add a destination to be reached by various travel methods. Use the 'bus' looking symbol if you want train schedules.

Are your tickets out of Berlin confirmed, or is there still time to play with departure gateways?

"Then there is the added complication that I'm currently waiting to hear from a fourth friend who might be joining us in Germany, and if that's the case, she'd be flying into Munich..."

Traveling as a group of four, let alone five peoplee, as anything other than as a family (and even then) has proven to be challenging to even seasoned travelers. With respect (since this ain't my trip) I would not make any commitment to this friend. Stuff happens. Plane delays, train delays, too complicated. And your schedule is, if I may say, a bit snug already.
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Old Jan 23rd, 2015, 10:48 AM
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Thanks for all the suggestions! I'll discuss with the others and hopefully have a better idea in the next week what people think.

How would you compare Dachau and Sachsenhausen? I think we all kind of really want to see the Kings Castles, but the others mentioned are beautiful too! I'm not sure on the quaint towns question, I think we'd probably rather focus our time in Berlin than make the stop, and I guess I was thinking Wittenberg might kind of fit the bill for a small town feel.

We have not yet ordered our plane tickets for the trip, so things are flexible in that regard.
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Old Jan 23rd, 2015, 10:53 AM
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Hmmn, very strange. I don't know why that particular google search had one switching at Karlsruhe of all places, most times one can just go direct Paris to Frankfurt, you'll get there in just under 4 hours.

Then you can switch to a train to say Koblenz, and make that a base for Burg Eltz (an actual furnished castle); pop into Cologne for a day if you like, take a brief Rhine cruise between St. Goarhausen and Bacharach, whatever.
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Old Jan 23rd, 2015, 11:03 AM
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"We have not yet ordered our plane tickets for the trip, so things are flexible in that regard."

In that case since you really want to see Neuschwanstein, etc., you might want to consider flying home from Munich or Frankfurt and leave Berlin to another trip.

"How would you compare Dachau and Sachsenhausen?"

Forgive me, but I wouldn't. Both are memorials. Both are places where a lot of people suffered and died. Both have depressing similarities. The first is closer to Munich

http://europeforvisitors.com/munich/...sportation.htm -

takes about an hour in all

and the second to Berlin (about 30 minutes by train to Oranienburg, then a 20 minute walk.)
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Old Jan 23rd, 2015, 11:17 AM
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Sue writes, "The reason I'm pushing you to the Rhine castles is that they are more or less on the most direct train route from Paris to Berlin, which passes through Frankfurt."

This is quite right. There are some nice castles to visit on the Rhine, including Marksburg in Braubach, probably the most popular of all and the best for a tour - never destroyed, interestingly furnished. It's about 10 minutes from Koblenz:

http://www.marksburg.de/english/frame_nj.htm

Sue also suggests that you "switch at Frankfurt to a slow train and briefly backtrack..." But you shouldn't do that, not if you're headed to Marksburg anyway. Using Koblenz as a destination, you can get there in less than 5 hours. If you go to Frankfurt and backtrack, you will add an unnecessary hour or more to your trip.

The DB itinerary page is a far better guide to train connections than Google:

http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en

Check, and you will see that he fastest routes to Koblenz take you via Cologne or via the Mosel Valley (again, just under 5 hours.) Via the Mosel, you will see changes of train in Luxembourg or Saarbrücken at the DB website. And the Mosel Valley offers you a very scenic route to the Rhine, if that's where you decide to base yourself.

But since the best route to the Rhine goes right through the Mosel and Cochem, you might wish to base yourself in Cochem as I suggested previously. From Cochem you can reach Koblenz from in about 35 minutes, Braubach (for Marksburg Castle) in about 10 more after a change in Koblenz.

There are nice places to stay on the Rhine as well. Whatever you choose, you can't really go wrong.
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