Germany for 3 weeks

Old Jan 19th, 2015, 11:48 AM
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Germany for 3 weeks

I am planning a 3 week trip to Germany May 18 -June 8 2015. I have read several travel blogs, guidebooks, etc. and am now thoroughly confused! Fussgaenger and others are so knowledgeable and helpful. This is what I'm thinking: Fly into Frankfurt and out of Berlin. From Frankfurt, I am stuck as to where to base. We are interested in wine, castles, biking (I've read there are great day trips for biking) It's all so confusing.
Some people say Rhine some say Mosel. How about Koblenz for both? I would prefer train transportation, but think I could get husband to rent a car if that's better. I just don't want to be on a highway the whole time not seeing the towns, villages, etc. So, how do you get to the castles? Do the day trips on the barges stop? On/Off kind of thing?
Next stop would be Munich, for day trips - 3 or 4 days. Or somewhere else? I don't care about the big cities, although I'm sure Munich has some interesting sights. What do you think?
Then, train to Berlin. Should we stop in Leipzig? Somewhere else? I realize we need at least 3 days in Berlin.
Thanks so much. I have read as much as I can, but need something concrete from those who know!
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Old Jan 19th, 2015, 12:13 PM
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Cochem to me is the best base for both the Mosel and Rhine, Koblenz in a nice large commercial city but nowhere compares to lovely Cochem - a fairly short train or car or bike ride from the Rhine and best parts of the Mosel.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Coch...w=1455&bih=977

And to me the Mosel is much MUCH more whatever - romantic than the busy Rhine Gorge with two main roads and two loud rail lines - one each on each side of the river disturbing the atmosphere - I led over 1,000 folks thru the Rhine and Mosel in past (not now) and folks yeh liked the Rhine but all fell in love with Cochem and the Mosel - especially if biking.

Oh maybe spend a day or two on the Rhine but several days on the Mosel - day trips abound - Trier - Germany's oldest town they say with Roman ruins and a Roman edifice that is now a Christian Basilica and a nice shopping district - Burg Eltz, one of Germany's primo castles not far from Cochem - and dozens ofcute wine towns along the sinuous Mosel Valley featuring many hairpin turns, etc.

https://www.google.com/search?q=mose...w=1455&bih=977

If considering train (but for your goals if seems a car is better - like up and down the Mosel or rural areas like Bavaria or the Castle Road to Rothenbrug, etc) but for German train tips and ideas check these fine sites: www.ricksteves.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com (check out their free online European Planning & Rail Guide's chapter on Germany) and www.seat61.com. If traveling around Germany check out the German Twin Railpass.
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Old Jan 19th, 2015, 12:51 PM
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Thank you! Great advice. So, you think a car from Frankfurt to Cochem and travel around there. Then train to Munich or drive?
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Old Jan 19th, 2015, 01:00 PM
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I'd drive to Munich, you could head to Heidelbergm neat city, and then take the fabled Castle Road along a neat river valley - castle-studded with nice towns en route to Rothenburg - then drive the Romantic Road say thru Bavaria to Fussen and Mad Ludwig's Castles plus lots of neat place like the famous Weiss Kirche and other castles to Munich. That is if you want to explore countryside rather than cities. Then take the train perhaps Munich to Berlin and back to Frankfurt - longer distances and arguable not as sweet countryside.
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Old Jan 19th, 2015, 01:21 PM
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Thank you. I have read to avoid Fussen and Rothenburg because of the crowds?
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Old Jan 19th, 2015, 03:45 PM
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"It's all so confusing.
Some people say Rhine some say Mosel. How about Koblenz for both? I would prefer train transportation..."

I completely agree with your impulse to see both - and to use trains. Cochem is a very fine town, one of my favorites, but if your objective is to see both rivers, Cochem is 35-50 minutes upstream from Koblenz on the Mosel. Unless you are planning to visit Trier, Cochem (is as far up the Mosel as some folks ever get) is NOT the most centrally located for your area of travel. If you stayed there, and you wanted to reach the scenic southern end of the Rhine where most folks begin a Rhine cruise (around Bingen or Rüdesheim) then on top of the train ride to Koblenz, you would need to spend an additional 40 - 50 minutes on a second train along the Rhine - and there would be some layover time in Koblenz too. For this reason, I suggest you find either a Mosel or a Rhine town that is CLOSER to Koblenz - a base that is more central to both rivers.

Winningen is a charming wine town on the Mosel. Boppard is a lively and attractive town on the Rhine. Either one would be more functional for your day trips by train.

IF YOU PLAN TO VISIT TRIER, which spreads your area of travel even wider... you will probably want both a Rhine base and a Mosel base town.

"So, how do you get to the castles?"
Reichsburg Castle is right in Cochem. There's a shuttle bus from the center of town but you can walk up too.

http://www.burg-cochem.de/index.php?id=20&L=1
The falconry show there is terrific too.

Rheinfels Castle is right in St. Goar (10 train minutes from Boppard.) Walk up or shuttle:
http://www.st-goar.de/17-1-.html

Marksburg Castle is in Braubach. Braubach is 10 train minutes from Koblenz.
http://www.marksburg.de/english/frame_nj.htm

Burg Eltz Castle near Moselkern: 50+ min. walk from Moselkern station (between Cochem and Koblenz.) On Sat or Sun. there's a bus from Moselkern. Moselkern is about 20 min. from Winningen.
www.burg-eltz.de

There are other castles but those are the main ones and are all accessible for train travelers.

You will need train tickets.
Day passes run between €22 and €27 for two adults. Check out the VRM mini-group ticket (there's a 3 day version too) and the Rheinland-pfalz ticket (which covers a larger area.)

http://www.vrminfo.de/en/tickets-and...eisure-ticket/
http://www.vrminfo.de/en/tickets-and...eisure-ticket/

All the villages are small enough and flat enough that getting around on foot after arrival is relatively easy. Only the climb to the castles themselves can be considered somewhat strenuous.
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Old Jan 19th, 2015, 05:21 PM
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"Next stop would be Munich, for day trips - 3 or 4 days. Or somewhere else? I don't care about the big cities, although I'm sure Munich has some interesting sights. What do you think?
Then, train to Berlin."

There are many good small-town options that lie roughly between the Rhine/Mosel and Berlin. It's a trip of 600 km if you travel straight to Berlin. If you did the Romantic Road by car...and you were to drive straight to Rothenburg, down to Füssen (as suggested by another poster,) and then to Berlin, you'd be in the car for well over 1,200 km!! Munich isn't much better (and if you don't care about big cities, why go there? Munich's urban area includes 2.7 million inhabitants!)

I think you could spend 3-4 days about mid-way on the way to Berlin. Hameln (Pied Piper's town,) Goslar, Celle, Göttingen (university town) and Hannoversch Münden are just a few possibilities you should check out. All are served by train.

Hann. Münden: http://www.hann.muenden-tourismus.de...annmuenden.pdf

Goslar: http://theredlist.com/media/database...theredlist.jpg

The German Fairytale route hits some of these towns and others too:
http://www.deutsche-maerchenstrasse.com/en/#prettyPhoto
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Old Jan 20th, 2015, 06:07 AM
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If going by car the drive from Cochem to the Rhine and the Bingen area is a short up and over the mountain drive - no need to drive via Koblenz to get to the heart of the Rhine Gorge. But if taking trains then that is a good point.

To me the Rhine is good for the K-D boat ride Rudesheim/Bingen to Koblenz - a ride I have been on umpgteen times and most of the passengers quickly get bored.

But this is all a subjective thing I guess - I just think Cochem and the Mosel would be my number one priority - a boat ride from Cochem to Beilstein is fabulous and if into bike riding then rentals abound in cochem - some hotels have them - and the ride to Beilstein and back and the Mosel in general is one of the primo biking places in Europe.

The Rhine has its charms but of a different type that some folks may well like more than the tranquility and quietness of Cochem.
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Old Jan 20th, 2015, 07:30 AM
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"To me the Rhine is good for the K-D boat ride Rudesheim/Bingen to Koblenz - a ride I have been on umpgteen times and most of the passengers quickly get bored."

The cruise is a rather nice way to see the Rhine (but I can understand boredom if you did the entire 4-hour route - ughh - much smarter to see the best part and get off in St. Goar or Boppard after 1.5 - 2.5 hours.)

The Rhine isn't good for much else? Really? You would have to get off the boat of course, but there's a lot of cool places to see and stuff to do.

View over vineyards and Rhine from Guenderodehaus above Oberwesel:
http://www.bacharach.de/typo3temp/pics/c82e1afd5f.jpg
Walk along the old town wall: http://www.bacharach.de/typo3temp/pics/c82e1afd5f.jpg
Tour Rheinfels Castle and museum and have lunch on the hotel terrace next door (red umbrellas in the photo below)
http://golocal-media.de/c26c33c1174d...cecdbc65e6.jpg
Ride the chairlift in Boppard to Gedeonseck for a tall cold one and a view:
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attractio...alatinate.html
http://www.bensbauernhof.com/rheinfi.jpg
Stop off at St. Goarshausen's cozy wine museum in the towns' old tower and do some tasting:
http://www.rhein-lahn-kreis.de/image...emou7dthn601h7
http://www.welterbe-atlas.de/uploads...oarshausen.JPG
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Old Jan 20th, 2015, 07:48 AM
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"We are interested in wine, castles, biking"

IMO, the Mosel is by far the nicest river to ride a bike and wine taste in the area. I spent part of last year buying wine along it and over the years have done a fair few bike rides down it (as has PalenQ).

You drive to the Mosel(choose a town, Cochem will do, but it is a bit touristy compared to others, I like Traben-Trarbach or Bernkastel-Kues or even Piesport) hire a bike and then catch a train up river, pedel back along the lovely bike path with stops for wine and cake on the way.

This http://www.mybikeguide.co.uk/Mosel_Guide.php is a little out of date but gives you a good overview.

Lots of walking in the area and as the guys above say loads of castles all within train or boat rides. Just leave the car parked up.

If you decide to do the Rhine as well (I have and I was less impressed) catch a boat or train to Koblenz and then on to say Rudesheim and take a cable car over the vines to the top and walk down the Ahr valley and catch a bus back to the train/boat is certainly possible.

Bike hire all over the place, some of the smaller towns may only have a few bikes.
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Old Jan 20th, 2015, 08:37 AM
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This is wonderful! I was getting so confused. So many things to see. I don't want any stress on my husband as he is already freaked out about the long flight and being away so long, so I'm not sure driving is the answer. Of course in the US we have to drive everywhere, no train system. But, for convenience sake, should I rely on trains or get the car? Ya'll are so helpful!
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Old Jan 20th, 2015, 09:27 AM
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Train is pretty good, I live in Europe and want to buy wine so driving is the normal answer, but if I was in your position look to the trains, seat61.com and bahn.de are what you need
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Old Jan 20th, 2015, 02:08 PM
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Thanks bilboburgler.
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Old Jan 20th, 2015, 04:28 PM
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If you don't want things to be stressful, you will still want to locate yourselves properly so that you aren't wasting a lot of train time on outings... I wish to repeat that you will find Boppard or Winningen to be more centrally located base towns for train outings.

Bilboburgler suggests Cochem as a base and that you "catch a boat or train to Koblenz..."


About the boat: even from the closest of the towns mentioned (Cochem) that is a boat trip of 4 HOURS PLUS through bucolic but dull scenery - not much in the way of castles, either. I suggest the train (35-50 minutes.)

"...and then on to say Rudesheim..."
By boat, that's 6+ hours!!! The train takes 1 hour. But in actuality, Cochem - R'heim takes 2+ hours by train because of layover time. This is why I advised you to stay in Boppard or Winningen, both of which are more central. Winningen (instead of Cochem) as a base shaves off 40 minutes of travel time to Rüdesheim each way. Boppard to Bingen (across river from Rüdesheim, catch cruise boat there) by train will take you only 30-35 minutes!



and take a cable car over the vines to the top and walk down the Ahr valley and catch a bus back to the train/boat is certainly possible."
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Old Jan 20th, 2015, 04:40 PM
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great advice again!
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Old Jan 20th, 2015, 05:45 PM
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"...and take a cable car over the vines to the top and walk down the Ahr valley and catch a bus back to the train/boat is certainly possible."

The Rüdesheim cable car ride is very popular. Details:
http://www.seilbahn-ruedesheim.de/en/selection/

The Ahr Valley is not anywhere near Rüdesheim. It's 100+ km to the north!
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Old Jan 20th, 2015, 11:35 PM
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Fuss is dead right, you walk down from Aulhausen.

Fuss is also right about the valleys, I'm not suggesting going to the Rhine much at all, but if you did, then Rudesheim is a good place and I agree Bingen is a nice place, I just prefer the Mosel.

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Old Jan 21st, 2015, 05:54 AM
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The two hours to Rudehseim and then train back from Koblenz after the boat ride on the Rhine (www.k-d.com) - all that time on the train will be all in all less time than packing up - relocating - schlepping bags on trains to Cochem - I'd say one base is better than two in this case - if like me and bilbo you think the Rhine for most folks is the K-d boat ride and little else of great interest - though you have all day so you can get off and on these boats en route to Koblenz - like at Marksburg Castle - about the only one on this stretch of river not to have been laid to waste thru the ages.

The boat stops right in front of Marksburg, up on a hill and you can take a train from the docks areas to Koblenz if more convenient.

Yup just love the Mosel and Cochem - others may feel more liking in the Rhine - to me a more interesting river because it is full of boats of all kinds - freight barges - and trains trundling constantly thru - I rather like that but many may not.

anyway you can't go wrong!
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Old Jan 21st, 2015, 07:52 AM
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"...if like me and bilbo you think the Rhine for most folks is the K-d boat ride and little else of great interest..."

dlongan: My guess is that you don't have an opinion at all on the Rhine yet since you've never been to the Rhine - or the Mosel either.

PalenQ and bilboburgler themselves have suggested you visit Marksburg Castle and also take the Rüdesheim chairlift, then hike back down. So why say the Rhine is only worth it for the cruise? (These things alone might require 5-6 hours or so.)

With several days, it would be a crime of negligence and a disservice to yourselves to not spend some real time on both rivers - including Cochem. And you CAN do that pretty easily from ONE travel base (just not Cochem!)

"...you have all day so you can get off and on these boats en route to Koblenz - like at Marksburg Castle...

It is absolutely wrong to suggest that you get off the plane at FRA, head to Bingen (or Rüdesheim) with your bags for a Rhine cruise, get off and back on the boats (with your bags) to visit towns and castles, and then continue "schlepping bags on trains to Cochem", as someone put it.) HOW would that be enjoyable - or even possible?

After your plane lands, you will probably want to GET STRAIGHT TO YOUR BASE. Then drop your bags off and start enjoying your time there. DIRECT trains get you from FRA to Boppard in 60-70 minutes. Do that and you will not have to schlepp a bag anywhere else until you leave the area. Boppard makes getting to ALL the other places very easy by train.

Boppard - Moselkern (Burg Eltz): 60 minutes
Boppard - Cochem: 60 minutes
Boppard - Braubach: 60 minutes
Boppard - Bingen (for cruise start or ferry to R'heim): 30-35 minutes. Cruise Bingen back to Boppard (best scenery) = 2.3 hours
Boppard - Bacharach: 20 minutes
Boppard - Oberwesel: 15 minutes
Boppard - St. Goar: 10 minutes
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Old Jan 21st, 2015, 08:10 AM
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Boppard is great, by the way.

Boppard, Market square cafes: http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/9532687.jpg
Boppard, view from Gedeonseck at top of chairlift: http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/med...king-rhein.jpg
Boppard, Riverfront: http://www.pizza-toni-boppard.de/upl...r/IMG_0131.JPG
Boppard street scene: http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2769/4...c5c8b305_o.jpg
Boppard, center of town: http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/p...m/89118425.jpg
Bopppard, Roman ruins: http://www.mittelrhein-kulturerbe.de...0.01.06.01.jpg
Boppard, riverfront castle: http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/27148061.jpg
Boppard, Römer-burg wine house (walls are of Roman origin.)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...%B6merburg.JPG
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