German shopping hours
 

Today as the first German land, Berlin liberated shopping hours. Shops have to remain closed on Sundays, on all other days there are no more restrictions. Bavaria didn't pass a law today, because the "Ministerpräsident" (=Governor) failed to attend the polls. The vote was 51:51... :D

Wow! Welcome to the 20th century, Deutschland! (Yes, I know it's the 21st...)

20th century, I'm not so sure...
before 1879 :
Shops open between 5am to 11pm
1900: open between 5am and 9pm
1911: open until 7pm
1956: until 6:30pm

It looks like it's back to the 19th century not the 20th...

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Bavaria didn't pass a law today, because the "Ministerpräsident" (=Governor) failed to attend the polls.
>>>>>>

so i still need to walk to the train station in munich to buy a bottle of beer after 6:00 (or 7:00) on "late" shopping days? these laws are pathetic and not fit for modern life.

After 8 p.m., walkinaround. That's when the big supermarkets close. Haven't been to Munich for a while, eh?

walkinaround,

if you want to buy a bottle of beer, you've got time till 8 p.m. to fetch it from a supermarket.

After that any filling station will gladly cater to your need. It is not necessary to take the presumably longer walk to the station.

While I am strongly advocating liberation of store hours for various reasons including better service quality and possible employment opportunities, I am not so sure that the current laws are rightly labelled as "pathetic". At least this society doesn't seem to manage to cope with them too badly.

However, it is always so refreshing to hear such a straightforward yet differentiated opinion from our American friends, who, of course, know how life and society should really be organized and regulated.

I apologize for assuming an American origin from the opinion stated - no offence intended. I'd be glad if you would replace "American" with "foreign".

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At least this society doesn't seem to manage to cope with them too badly.
>>>>>

i don't know how anyone who has been shopping in munich during the few saturday open store hours could say that. it's a zoo and extremely stressful for both shop staff and customers. and, as you rightly point out, it is silly to have shops sitting closed when they could be employing some of the many german people out of work. germany needs to get a grip on unemployment or the extreme right will continue to grow. by most accounts, the lure of the far right is fuelled by unemployed young men. obviously, extending shop hours is not an instant answer to this but it would remove artificial barriers set up by the government.

families in germany are like families in most places...working long hours, two parents working, etc. it's ironic that many arguments for restricted shop hours revolve around keeping life simpler, increasing rest time, etc. restrictive shop hours have exactly the opposite effect in reality.

>>>>>>>
However, it is always so refreshing to hear such a straightforward yet differentiated opinion from our American friends, who, of course, know how life and society should really be organized and regulated.
>>>>>>>>

nice how you can't make a comment here without people automatically assuming you are using the US as some sort of benchmark. i made no references to the way things are done in the US, nor am i even from the US. there are many models of trading hours in the world and the important thing is that the model matches the needs of the customers, the workers, and the local economy. from my experience in germany it does not (or did not before laws changed). in fact, the gap between the needs and the reality is bigger than in most places.

ok hsv...messages crossed...started my response, ate breakfast, then finished it.

> the gap between the needs and the reality is bigger
Is it? In fact, it'd the best place to live on this planet, so who cares about a few more regulations. You either cope with the status quo or move to another country. If you don't like a place, there's no need for you to go there :D. No more silly reforms please!

> restricted shop hours revolve around keeping life simpler, increasing rest time, etc.
That's a fact too. The silence and the relaxation you find on a sunday just because everything is closed mustn't be given away at any cost. It's an essential part of german life. Adapt or let it be, the locals don't want to change..., it's their way of life. Nothing to do with Nazi nonsense...

Last time I checked, Germany was a functioning democracy. Its voters vote (more than they can be arsed - or permitted - to in some other countries we could mention). They take responsibility for the decisions taken by legislatures.

Whatever interfering foreigners may say, successive Land and Federal legislators have kept shopping laws pretty much as they are because, on balance, that's what voters want.

Foreigners who'd like it different have no shortage of other countries to live or holiday in. And there's a great deal more to life than buying a fridge at midnight on a Sunday.

Besides being an excellent topic for discussions, the essential for the traveler shopping in Germany is:

Small shops may sell at restricted times. You better come before 18:00 hrs, on saturday before noon.

Chain stores or supermarkets might sell monday to saturday from 08:00 to 20:00 hrs, but you better check out on location.

So, ask your landlord or hotel desk operator about shopping opportunities.

Some names: Aldi, Lidl are discounters, offering a smaller range of items, often no-name-articles for a modest prize, in the same range are Penny, Plus and Netto.
Remember: In Germany, frugal design, shabby stores and no service indicates cheap prizes.

Marktkauf, Kaufland, are supermarkets, offering a wide range of articles.
Kaufhof, Karstadt, are department stores. At Berlin, KaDeWe department store has a certain reputation, maybe you will like its delicatessen section on the top (6th, 7th in american count) floor with its bars, restaurants and premises (speciality: oysters).

If you want to do some gadget shopping, go for Saturn or MediaMarkt stores, offering a wide range of electric and electronic devices and records. It still is a matter of discussion, whether they are as cheap as they claim to be, or you have the better service and the better overall prize at some Fachgeschäft or special retailer.

For a special kind of Fachgeschäft, visit a Buchhandlung (bookseller). There has been a centralisation in the trade, large chains are Hugendubel (from Munich) Wittwer (from Stuttgart) and Thalia. But there still are bookshops owned by some idealistic Buchhändler (bookseller) who consider their trade as a part of their individuality. You will find those most likely in university towns.

So, what to do on sundays if you are in the very need?

Gas stations will supply you with traveler`s needs. You are welcome there, as the station´s tenant generates more income on selling a can of beer as on filling a car´s tank. Thius explains, why these gas stations look merely like grocery/fast food stores - some even sell fresh made rolls (Brötchen). Some gas stations even provide ice - ice cubes or crushed ice to cool your drinks, for ice cream I would suggest ice cream parlours, the ones owned by Italians have good ice, or look for pastry shops (Konditorei, when in combination with a cafe: Konditorei-Cafe).

When driving on the autobahn, you will find Raststätten located beside at a distance of approx. 50 to 75 miles or 75 to 100 km. These are gas stations in combination with a shop and a restaurant, offering service around the clock. But you pay for this.

A little distance off the autobahn, there are Autohöfe (singular: Autohof) - gas stations in combination with a shop and a restaurant catering to truckers - and everybody else who will drive off the autobahn for a short distance to get the same sevice a Raststätte offers, but for a better price.

Also, streetside stalls (Kiosk) wil provide the most necessary things. These are to be found near places of touristic interest, but are supposed to be not that cheap.

Train stations - in big towns only - also provide you with traveller´s needs off the usual closing hours. A quite remarkable train station transformed into a shopping mall is Leipzig Hbf. If you are in need of international press and magazines, your odds to find those are best at big train stations. Besides, there are some with an remarkable architecture, as Stuttgart Hbf (straightforward Bauhaus design) Köln Hbf (impressive station hall in steel construction) Dresden Hbf (just opened after reconstruction) and the new Berlin Mitte station.

Can cigarettes be bought in supermarkets and small shops like the UK? Or in tobacconists like Spain and Italy?

Either.

You get cigarettes in Germany at the smaller grocery stores, as well as at the big supermarkets and the discounters. Some discounters sell their own no-name brand only.
In addition, you can get cigarettes at these little stalls in the street (Kiosk), at gas stations, and in the stores selling papers and tobacco, often together with a Lotto lottery collectioner´s. There is no special licensed Tabaktrafik (as in Austria) or a tabac (as in France).

In addition, you will find selling machines working on coins (Zigarettenautomat) fixed to house walls or at inns and restaurants.

So, for dire needs at unusual times, you have to find a selling machine or a gas station.

If you like a good cigar, you will find stores, the best ones in larger towns , which are specialised on cigars and pipe tobacco. For a pure tobacco cigar you will have to spend about 1.50 EUR minimum. If you have found a well sorted cigar shop, you might try your luck and ask for Fehlfarben - cigars, which differ in color and are sold cheaper therefore. Some also have Hausmarke - the houses own brand which indicates a priceworthy offer for the regulars. Maybe some internet research on this ("Zigarren" "Fachgeschäft") will be helpful. You might find this sort of shop also in large train stations.

Oh, and in Bavaria, the natives like a special kind of snuff made from fermented Brazil tobacco; the most popular snuff in Germany is a brand named Gletscherprise, sold in blue boxes.

It's not just shopping hours driving the Germans crazy (and away).

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...446045,00.html

Hi all,

Once upon a time in the USA opening and closing times were strictly regulated; prices were subject to "Fair Trade Laws", and liquor sales were, of course, strictly, strictly regulated.

OTOH, kids could go buy cigs for their parents.

((I))

>machines working on coins (Zigarettenautomat) fixed to house walls
A card with a pin is needed for age verification.

>pin
chip of course.

>not just shopping hours driving the Germans crazy
I love this left propaganda :D. Maybe I should emigrate, but then it's hard to find a better place to live. Australia? :-)

I've always found it so eerie when the KuDamm is shut down and it's only 6:00 o'clock.

Then again, I'm from Los Angeles - Nothing ever closes in Los Angeles.

As long as the German people support it, then I'm right along with them. It may be an inconvenience to travelers - but the well-being of those who live there is far more important than whether or not I can buy a sweater at 9 p.m. or s/t from an Imbiss at 3 o'clock in the morning to go along with my recently purchased jaegermeister.

As it happens, I live in Germany, and rather mourn this liberalisation of shop opening hours. Like most folk in this part of Europe, we don't forge our identity through what we purchase, and the functional business of purchasing / consuming is possibly best relegated to the margins of life. A few hours a day should surely be sufficient for those who do need to shop. And, to pick up another comment above, there is indeed something rather beautiful about Ku-Damm in Berlin when the shops are all closed. It is indeed sad that the relentless pressures placed on us by visitors from abroad and by profit-driven multinational companies are driving a change that does not seem, from the media here, to be welcomed with any great enthusiasm by voters in Germany.

Another problem. People don't have more money to spend because the shops stay open for longer hours. Small shops run by local owners cannot afford to employ more staff. So this would do a favour to the big chains only and destroy even more local businesses.

Westphalia down,
Brandenburg down,
Saxony-Anhalt down,
Thuringia down,
Rhineland-Palatinate 6am to 10pm,
I'm proud of my Bavarians :-)

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Like most folk in this part of Europe, we don't forge our identity through what we purchase,
>>>>>

really??? germany must be the most materialistic country in europe. biggest, most expensive flash cars, lots of luxury shopping, etc, etc. i don't dislike germany but to say it's not materialistic is pure fantasy. your post is all fantasy and political statement rather than reality.

Understatement is when you have two Maybachs at home, but use the Mercedes. I bet you don't even own Mercedes :D :D

whatever that's supposed to mean

You don't need to understand :-)

"germany must be the most materialistic country in europe"

Only after UK.

logos999, LOVED your definition of understatement. ;-)

logos999,

Understatement is when you have two Maybachs at home, but use the Mercedes.

you say understatement. not at all, if both drivers have their annual day off. you don´t drive a maybach yourself, this is newly rich, see?

>both drivers have their annual day off.
Won't happen. As long as shops remain closed on christmas day, there's no need to leave the estate on that day :-)

Interesting to read all these- from a total outsider/American, who would like our stores to be closed on Sunday. Not shorter hours, not for religious reasons- just to have a day of "unbusiness."

But regulation to that extent on so many things, it will damper personal initiatives and financial success on many individual fronts. Why try a small business? Not much encouragement for starting.

I have relatives in Germany and two families have moved. One goes to work in France. I understand it better now.

My people left in the very early 1930's for mostly financial reasons. Voted with their feet.