green_girl

As a gift from my parents I am getting a trip to Europe after college to any two countries I choose.

However, as I have been warned by most of my European friends, some places just aren't safe or fun for african american people.

Not to mention being an American.

I am hoping to visit either Ancrum,Scotland; Iceland, Ireland and Romania. I am also going to stop in Germany and Russia where I have some friends.

Which places should I cross off my list? what suggestions do you have for me?

I am trying to avoid oddness like what happened when I went to Sweden: people kept asking why my hair was so curly, if I got sunburn, why the palms of my hands were pink etc.

I am a young girl and rather small and I would like to avoid harassment as much as I possibly can.

thanks for the help,

kayla marie ANCRUM (!!!)

jkbritt

I can only speak to Scotland. I have been there many times and never tire of it. It is a lovely country and friendly people.

janisj

OK - there are some idiots everywhere, including in your own home town. No one can possibly say you will never run into something odd/unpleasant.

But you really, REALLY won't have any trouble just about anywhere on your list.

&quot;<i>Not to mention being an American.</i>&quot; And did someone tell you you'd get abuse because you are American? Just doesn't happen unless you - or they - are acting particularly weird.

BTW - if you do go to Scotland (totally amazing place!) Ancrum is a small village in the Borders near Jedburgh. There is lots to see in the area, plus it is not far from Edinburgh to the north and Hadrian's Wall to the south.

adrienne

What rude questions!

That's a fabulous graduation present. I would choose Scotland and Ireland (I'm assuming 2 countries in addition to Russia and Germany). I was advised against traveling to Romania as a woman solo. I don't think Iceland is as interesting or as beautiful as Scotland and Ireland.

sheri_lp

You'll have a wonderful time in Ireland and Scotland. Europeans are cool with Americans and especially NOW with our Pres-Elect, we're getting popular again!

unclegus

I live in Edinburgh the capital of Scotland .It is a big University town and has a very diverse population,so you will fit right in.
you will find in Scotland very few people will judge you on your race colour ehtnic backgroud or gender.Even Americans are tolerated (We actually quite like Americans)
Are you going to be studying your family name whilst over here? here is a website to get you started.
http://www.ancrum.bordernet.co.uk/
Ancrum is a lovely little place in the Borders of Scotland,been a while since i was there,so must rectify that soon.

kleeblatt

Switzerland.

I'm going to be very open and honest about this subject because my brother-in-law is black and I'm not sure if I want him to visit Switzerland or not.

Up to 5-10 years ago, the Swiss didn't have many black people in their country. Most Swiss didn't harbour any racists thoughts based on colour so most black people didn't have any problems here.

Unfortunately, in the past 5 years, Switzerland has been receiving quite a few asyl seekers from Northern Africa. These are men who aren't allowed to work (stipulation for refugees) and, looking at the statistics and reading the paper, have often brought in drugs. Nowadays, many black men are looked upon as possible drug dealers and I have even seen black males being asked for ID by the local police (happened in Goldau.)

Being a black woman, you shouldn't have many problems. However, I'm not sure if I'd want to subject my brother-in-law to such a situation.

It's a sad situation that is a reflection of present times. And it shows that accepting lots of refugees can cause racial strife where none had existed.

flanneruk

No idea about Iceland - though with a substantial US base there, people will probably just assume you're in the US Air Force.

Avoid Romania. The automatic assumption among many Romanians (who, like all nationalities that have been brainwashed with claptrap about how victimised their forbears were, rarely feel any obligation to disguise their own bigotry) is that a young black woman is an African prostitute who's entered illegally. That's not true of anything like all Romanians - but it might be true of enough to feel uncomfortable.

Scotland will be just fine.

In most of Ireland, they'll just assume you're British (and more precisely, English) till they hear your accent. Contrary to the myth propagated by the lunatic fringe of those Americans who insist on insulting us by calling themselves Irish-Americans, being taken for British is neither a good nor a bad thing. Don't know how it is with women, but in Northern Ireland the assumption for a long time has been that a black face means a British soldier, and it's probably still best for black men to avoid the hard-core terrorist-friendly enclaves in South Armagh and parts of Belfast and Derry.

ira

Hi GG,

&gt;I have been warned by most of my European friends, some places just aren't safe or fun for african american people. &lt;

Can you be more specific?

The places that you are suggesting are way, way down my list of priorities for a 1st timer, even an AA.

zeppole

Ira, Belgium certainly isn't safe for those of visbly African descent. In Milano, an African was recently beaten to death by bar owners who suspected him of stealing a pack of cookies. As has also been pointed out above, women of color in some places are presumed to be prostitutes and treated accordingly. And I am utterly mystified by the comment:

&quot;The places that you are suggesting are way, way down my list of priorities for a 1st timer, even an AA.&quot;

First of all, why would you have priorities for another traveler? And as far as I know, there is no &quot;order&quot; for seeing things in Europe. Who is green-girl need to impress? And what does &quot;even an AA&quot; mean? And did you even notice that the poster has the same last name as one of the towns in Scotland she hopes to visit?

green-girl,

If you come to Europe (I live here), you will have a hard time discerning whether people stare at you because you don't dress like them or walk like them. It's not hard to spot Americans of any color in Europe. There are certain styles of behavior and dress that all American share, in contrast to Europeans. (And they don't smoke! Not that I'm suggesting you start.)

Obama's victory has been enormously popular with most Europeans, and it has changed attitudes about Americans, and maybe a bonus for African-Americans. But I cannot guarantee that wherever you go, you won't be subjected to stupid questions and invasions of privacy, both about being an American and being an African-American. It's in the nature of being a stranger, and a curiosity, just for being foreign.

The one place I would suggest you read up on is Russia. It is not a safe place for almost any solo traveler, anti-American feeling can still run high, but most importantly, there is rampant crime, a corrupt police force, and extremely poor medical help. Visas are hard to get anyway, but you'll need a lot of help from your friends and you should seek advice from others aw well.

As a small young woman, you are going to attract attention, As a foreigner, you are going to attract stupid questions, and some people hoping to take advantage of you.

If you're not having fun, you can always go home.

Michael

You should have no problems in large cities. But I have my doubts about Romania; they might be just as curious about your appearance as in Sweden, but less reserved, and there is definite prejudice against darker skinned people, i.e. gypsies.

My daughter traveled with a Haitian girl friend to Budapest, Prague and Berlin about 10 years ago. At the time she reported unpleasant experiences in Budapest, although she recently denied it, claiming that she preferred Budapest to Prague. They had no problems in Berlin, but my cousin (born and bred in Berlin) warned them about going to small towns in the former GDR.

Do you plan to travel alone or with a friend? That might make a difference.

nona1

Hmmm....

Although in a way its a reasonable question something is just making me smell troll here. I find it very hard to believe that Swedes didn't know that black people have curly hair or pink palms (or if they didn't, actually asked about these things).

Also , if those 'European' friends are warning you presumably they are saying where they don't consider safe. If the conversations were actually 'ooh some parts of Europe aren't safe for you' - 'oh no, really, which parts?' 'um, I don't know, haven't a clue even though I'm European myself and bringing the subject up with you, you'd better ask a bunch of strangers instead' it would be a bit weird, non?

Anyway just in case this is not a wind-up

1) The vast majority of Europe is fine. Re the Belgium comment above, it is ridiculous to generalise because of an isolated incident. Many countries have a good number of black residents.

2) I'd be careful in Russia as there have been a large number of proven racist incidents there.

3) Spain is extremely 'un-PC' but this does not mean the same thing as dangerous for you.


Also...

you say 'for African American people ...not to mention being an American.'

Do you think African Americans have special problems that other black people don't have?

Or, as seems to be the case because of the 'not to mention American' bit, do you use 'African-American' as a euphemism for black? That's extremely rude of you. Only a small percentage of black people are African-American.

valerie218

I had friends who went to Russia that were not African American and they almost got &quot;robbed&quot; twice.

hetismij

Zeppole, I don't see the connection between Belgium being unsafe and an event in Milan personally. There are plenty of black people in Belgium.

As for Sweden - well Neneh and Eagle Eye Cherry are Swedish and African American too, and I don't recall them ever saying they had problems. Swedes are very polite and I cannot believe any Swede would behave in the way described.

I cannot see that being an African American is any more dangerous in Europe than being a Black Briton, or a Black French person or a Surinamer or Dutch Antillian is. They all travel happily around Europe with no more problems than white, Asian or any other colour person does.

My neighbours are Surinamers and regularly travel throughout Europe and the US. In fact the only time they ever felt uncomfortable because of their skin colour was in the US.

gruezi

Dear green-girl,

Your post made me think of something. We are Americans living in Switzerland but we are white. When we first came, my children would often say people were staring at them. We found this particularly true when we visited Germany. I think most Americans are brought up by mothers who said, &quot;don't stare, it's not polite!&quot; Not so in other cultures. Staring, and not waiting in line, is not rude in other places. Hard to believe, but you were probably a curiosity to some people and they may not have considered they were being insensitive.

Although we have felt some anti-americanism here, it was mostly from British ex-pats. The Swiss are over the moon about Obama right now, and it seems the Italians and French are too, at least by looking at their papers. Everyone was so excited for us on election day and I've saved many of the papers to show my friends back home.

(We are also 3 petite women so I know what you mean by feeling safe. Plus I travel alone a lot.)

I absolutely love Berlin and I think you will find it a welcoming city. Same for Munich. Urban, educated Germans are sincerely PC IMO.

I've never been to Edinburgh (I am dying to go) and I think it would be a great trip for a solo young woman as there are lots of young people there and it is small and walkable.

I love Ireland, but I think at your age, it may not be very exciting...But, I didn't get to Dublin.

I'm Irish-Scottish-American BTW - not sure why that is such an insult to Flanner actually. I guess I'm stupid like all the rest of those Americans whose grandparents emigrated from there... Eyes rolling...

Please let us know what you decide, have a great trip, and report back here!

Oh, and congrats on your graduation! What did you study?

gruezi

spaarne

<i>I am trying to avoid oddness like what happened when I went to Sweden: people kept asking why my hair was so curly, if I got sunburn, why the palms of my hands were pink etc.</i>

I suggest Amsterdam and Paris. You will not be noticed, except as an American. Besides, these are the two most interesting cities in Europe.

elina

&gt;&gt;&gt;Although in a way its a reasonable question something is just making me smell troll here. I find it very hard to believe that Swedes didn't know that black people have curly hair or pink palms (or if they didn't, actually asked about these things).&lt;&lt;&lt;

I agree. Possible 50 years ago, but today? Swedes see black people every day, there are plenty. Lots of African refugees and immigrants, and also black (half white) native Swedes. Green girl has never been to Sweden.

sheila

Ireland is a lovely country, but with the exception of the big cities, not exactly buzzing. If you think you would like it, Ireland and Scotland are a good mix.

If you think- too quiet, then I suggest France as an alternative. Lots of black people there- except maybe in the South West, and a total contrast to the other places you're planning on.

Lots of assumptions going on in this thread. Why can't we all just get along?

suze

I concur with Amsterdam &amp; Paris being good choices because you will find such a mix of people, nothing about a young, small, african american female will give much notice.

I would personally not go to Romania and Russia, because they are not somewhere I would be comfortable traveling as a solo female, regardless of any issues or race.

suze

Well I'm giving benefit of the doubt for the time being, but it does make poster curious, when someone's first post to the forum hits such hot button issues.

For instance I personally find it a teeny bit hard to beleive that &quot;people kept asking&quot; those three questions as stated.