French View of Americans
Aug 19th, 2005, 04:52 PM
#41
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PalQ,
Maybe you should have taken your friends somewhere much more interesting. It's true, many Americans are overwieght but I think we might have a few more things going for us then that.
If someone asked what my observations about Parisians were, I would hope I could think of something more interesting than, "they smoked."
Maybe you should have taken your friends somewhere much more interesting. It's true, many Americans are overwieght but I think we might have a few more things going for us then that.
If someone asked what my observations about Parisians were, I would hope I could think of something more interesting than, "they smoked."
Aug 19th, 2005, 05:00 PM
#42
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I don't want to drag this out unnecessarily, and I wouldn't criticize someone for taking guests to this restaurant when they ASKED to go there. BUT, I think most Americans (at least in the northern and mid-Atlantic parts of the east coast) do not regularly eat what's referred to as generic "typical American food" any more than we typically eat fancy, fussy restaurant food. I think we eat the food we grew up with, which is usually some sort of ethnic (or specifically regional) food--whether Chinese or Italian or Puerto Rican or Mexican or Polish or Hungarian or southern African-American or Armenian, etc. So maybe "typical American" restaurants don't really give an accurate impression of most Americans (or maybe in the midwest they do--I don't know). That doesn't mean visitors might not enjoy them, but they should realize that these meals may be just as different from our typical home cooking as they are from their home cooking.
Aug 19th, 2005, 05:25 PM
#43
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L84SKY: Please an example of some 'place much more interesting' for them? They were extremely interested in going to OCB - i had suggested an Ethiopian restaurant where you eat with your fingers, and in Ethopian cuisine portions are parse - they, again they wanted OCB - because they had nothing like it in France and who doesn't like the chose anything you like concept - we had two French teens with us who also loved the experience.
Sincerely i'd like to know what could be more interesting from their perspective and i sincerely note your point of view. We also did many other things that you'd approve of i think which i would have gotten to but decided to bag it after the negative response, which i did not wish to elicit.
Sincerely i'd like to know what could be more interesting from their perspective and i sincerely note your point of view. We also did many other things that you'd approve of i think which i would have gotten to but decided to bag it after the negative response, which i did not wish to elicit.
Aug 19th, 2005, 05:34 PM
#44
I think Carol, makes a good point.
Meanwhile I can't help thinking of my younger days when Mad comics was first published. I loved the bit when two Chineese guys go to "Whitetown," and one suggests they try eating with forks and knives.
We are all different, yet, so much alike.
Meanwhile I can't help thinking of my younger days when Mad comics was first published. I loved the bit when two Chineese guys go to "Whitetown," and one suggests they try eating with forks and knives.
We are all different, yet, so much alike.
Aug 19th, 2005, 05:38 PM
#45
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But does the irony of all this escape you PalQ? These ladies wanted to go to this "all you can stuff your face with" buffet and do the make your own sundaes, etc. Then they point out the obese people who go there. Don't they realize that if they had these places at home, they'd be obese too?
Aug 19th, 2005, 05:42 PM
#47
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Hey, PalQ, I for one am very interested in the rest of the story. I'm sure you just threw in the "obese" thing as an opening gambit to get attention for the other impressions of the U.S. that your French relatives had.
Please ignore the stings from the wasps you stirred up with your post, and let us know what other reactions to things American your friends had -- both positive and negative. The rest of us are mature enough to take it, IMO.
Please ignore the stings from the wasps you stirred up with your post, and let us know what other reactions to things American your friends had -- both positive and negative. The rest of us are mature enough to take it, IMO.
Aug 19th, 2005, 05:54 PM
#49
Come on, Pal, you set this up. You said you took two French women to an unlimited eating trough and they loved pointing out the fatties.
Now you say you and your French friends are just humble folk who really enjoy the OCB...
You've been around the Fodorite block a time or two but you can't understand why people are piling on to this thread?
Now you say you and your French friends are just humble folk who really enjoy the OCB...
You've been around the Fodorite block a time or two but you can't understand why people are piling on to this thread?
Aug 19th, 2005, 06:07 PM
#50
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Patrick:
Conundrum
Do people become obese because they go to places like OCB?
Or do they go to OCB because they are fat slobs to begin with - who would eat just as much at home as here?
I think your assertion that if they had these places in France, more French would be obese is not necessarily so - it may be as French kids are becoming more obese (so they say, i don't observe this in my son's circle of friends at all or on the streets in Orleans) because of MacDonalds and junk food. When we went to the Greek restaurant they order Mousaka plus a salad - when the salad came it was so huge to them that they said 'in France when we order a salad it's a few pieces of lettuce and sauce - yes Americans are in part heavier than French because of the gargantuan meals we eat not only out but at home. SuperSize it nation, the movie had it right. I've spent many meals with relatives in France and the portions are doled out by the lady in charge and they are not humungous - and little meat portions (we're talking about average French people) and they just don't snack between meals - little junk food in most households. This may be changing if what i read is true but still - i don't think the French would even go to OCB at home more than a few times a year, for the festive fun it is if you go rarely. You go to a Carrefour or Leclaire and look at the chips and junk food section - it's there but very miniscule as to what you'd seen in my neighborhood Kroger - they have the same snacks but just don't gorge on them like we do. Anyway interesting point.
Conundrum
Do people become obese because they go to places like OCB?
Or do they go to OCB because they are fat slobs to begin with - who would eat just as much at home as here?
I think your assertion that if they had these places in France, more French would be obese is not necessarily so - it may be as French kids are becoming more obese (so they say, i don't observe this in my son's circle of friends at all or on the streets in Orleans) because of MacDonalds and junk food. When we went to the Greek restaurant they order Mousaka plus a salad - when the salad came it was so huge to them that they said 'in France when we order a salad it's a few pieces of lettuce and sauce - yes Americans are in part heavier than French because of the gargantuan meals we eat not only out but at home. SuperSize it nation, the movie had it right. I've spent many meals with relatives in France and the portions are doled out by the lady in charge and they are not humungous - and little meat portions (we're talking about average French people) and they just don't snack between meals - little junk food in most households. This may be changing if what i read is true but still - i don't think the French would even go to OCB at home more than a few times a year, for the festive fun it is if you go rarely. You go to a Carrefour or Leclaire and look at the chips and junk food section - it's there but very miniscule as to what you'd seen in my neighborhood Kroger - they have the same snacks but just don't gorge on them like we do. Anyway interesting point.
Aug 19th, 2005, 06:16 PM
#51
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obxgirl:
believe it or not and no doubt you don't but i did not 'set this up' - i'm not nearly that clever and meant just a whimsical thing, not combative - not that i don't like a good argument which it has devolved into - well actually a bad argument it seems from my point judging from Fodorite opinion.
believe it or not and no doubt you don't but i did not 'set this up' - i'm not nearly that clever and meant just a whimsical thing, not combative - not that i don't like a good argument which it has devolved into - well actually a bad argument it seems from my point judging from Fodorite opinion.
Aug 19th, 2005, 06:21 PM
#52
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Well, I unfortunately have been to enough "all you can eat food troughs" as you put it to know that it is obvious that there are more obese people at those places than at the local salad bar. Simple fact of observation. Look at the buffet lines in Las Vegas, then look at the people eating at LeCirque or Spago, for example. The answer is obvious. So it really isn't a stretch to think that if there were more all you can eat buffets scattered around France, we'd probably see more obese people in France. Whether the buffets were there to service the obese people, or the obese people were there because they eat there would be hard to determine. But you have to admit, don't you, that if your friends went to the Old Country Buffet and gorged themselves and made their own sundaes at least once or more a week, then they'd be much more likely to be obese than they are now?
Meanwhile I too have to say, come on now. You know this site well enough to know that the title and the post you did was AIMED to get exactly the controversy it got. You are NOT that naive!
Meanwhile I too have to say, come on now. You know this site well enough to know that the title and the post you did was AIMED to get exactly the controversy it got. You are NOT that naive!
Aug 19th, 2005, 07:11 PM
#53
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No not that naive but this time no hidden agenda - just a hopefully whimsical look - if it was planned i wouldn't deny it. Sorry you folks can't believe that. Not that i don't enjoy a good argument, or in this case, from the Fodorite Judge and Jury a losing argument. Oh well what do i care what you believe? Are your responses written to provoke controversy - no i don't think so but could be.
Aug 19th, 2005, 09:15 PM
#54
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You did say in your original post, "all of their takes..." This lead me to believe they had more to say than Americans are obese.
I would have to agree, too many Americans are chubby to obese and the statistics are disturbing. But I love my fellow Americans and I know there is more to them then overeating. That your friends didn't see the kindness and and genuine warmth of Americans is a shame. It wouldn't have mattered how interesting the places you took them or how nice the people you met. From what you've posted, it sounds like all they saw and commented on was the shell. Personally, I wouldn't have found such a degree of negativity interesting in a guest but everyone has their own brand of fun, I suppose.
BTW, if they were only looking at the the outside, you'd think, they would have at least said, "fat bodies but nice teeth!"
I would have to agree, too many Americans are chubby to obese and the statistics are disturbing. But I love my fellow Americans and I know there is more to them then overeating. That your friends didn't see the kindness and and genuine warmth of Americans is a shame. It wouldn't have mattered how interesting the places you took them or how nice the people you met. From what you've posted, it sounds like all they saw and commented on was the shell. Personally, I wouldn't have found such a degree of negativity interesting in a guest but everyone has their own brand of fun, I suppose.
BTW, if they were only looking at the the outside, you'd think, they would have at least said, "fat bodies but nice teeth!"
Aug 19th, 2005, 10:44 PM
#55
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PalQ: I'm with nukesafe and cigalechanta, do tell us more!
Unfortunately, statistics support your friends' observations. Over 60% of Americans are "overweight". It used to be over 50% - which was bad enough!
I live here in the States and I can't get used to the sight of so many portly people.
It isn't just the eat all you can buffets - what's the name of the place, Old Country Buffet? - that cause people to gorge themselves. It's also the portions.
I'll relate another French visitor story: a friend of mine from Paris ordered some pancakes at a standard American breakfast cafe. The waitress asked if she wanted anything else after the "starter" of pancakes? Did she want some eggs and bacon and toast? My friend declined. When the pancakes came, they were stacked six inches high! My French friend gasped and said she expected only two or three pancakes - then she remembered what the waitress had said about this being only the "starter" course! She was in total disbelief that Americans could eat so much - and just for breakfast!
Instead of getting defensive, I truly believe that Americans should band together and fight this weight problem, IMHO! Otherwise, if we keep on eating the way we are, the entire continent could begin to sink!
Unfortunately, statistics support your friends' observations. Over 60% of Americans are "overweight". It used to be over 50% - which was bad enough!
I live here in the States and I can't get used to the sight of so many portly people.
It isn't just the eat all you can buffets - what's the name of the place, Old Country Buffet? - that cause people to gorge themselves. It's also the portions.
I'll relate another French visitor story: a friend of mine from Paris ordered some pancakes at a standard American breakfast cafe. The waitress asked if she wanted anything else after the "starter" of pancakes? Did she want some eggs and bacon and toast? My friend declined. When the pancakes came, they were stacked six inches high! My French friend gasped and said she expected only two or three pancakes - then she remembered what the waitress had said about this being only the "starter" course! She was in total disbelief that Americans could eat so much - and just for breakfast!
Instead of getting defensive, I truly believe that Americans should band together and fight this weight problem, IMHO! Otherwise, if we keep on eating the way we are, the entire continent could begin to sink!
Aug 20th, 2005, 02:43 AM
#56
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Pal, living in Burgundy I can't let you say "sauce bourgonese" without having a heart attack!
I didn't say anything about "regarde" instead of regard (say regar which means a glance)but this one... you are not the first one to spell it that way so I want to tell the truth! "sauce BOURGUIGNONNE"!is that clear???
and you have the right to tell me when my English is bad of course! ;-)
BTW I loved "supersize me", saw it twice and took my DH and sons to see it. And we still go to Mac Do once or twice a year...
have a nice week end
I didn't say anything about "regarde" instead of regard (say regar which means a glance)but this one... you are not the first one to spell it that way so I want to tell the truth! "sauce BOURGUIGNONNE"!is that clear??? and you have the right to tell me when my English is bad of course! ;-)
BTW I loved "supersize me", saw it twice and took my DH and sons to see it. And we still go to Mac Do once or twice a year...
have a nice week end
Aug 20th, 2005, 03:28 AM
#57
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Sadly, a lot of Europeans are waddling in your wake. Obesity has risen in the UK and tragically, Italian children are now the fattest in Europe.
What is it about Americans and their gnashers? People who have dental insurance can afford those veneers and whitening treatments.
Seriously, I am often struck by how socially segregated Americans are.
If you go into any place where the poor congregate such as cheaper shops and public libraries, you'll see mouths far worse than any you'd see in Europe.
I've been there. The average public library will also have patrons who do not bathe or use deoderants.
Some Americans/Europeans are fat. Some Americans/Europeans have bad teeth. Some Americans/Europeans have poor personal hygiene. Some Americans/Europeans are rude.
What is it about Americans and their gnashers? People who have dental insurance can afford those veneers and whitening treatments.
Seriously, I am often struck by how socially segregated Americans are.
If you go into any place where the poor congregate such as cheaper shops and public libraries, you'll see mouths far worse than any you'd see in Europe.
I've been there. The average public library will also have patrons who do not bathe or use deoderants.
Some Americans/Europeans are fat. Some Americans/Europeans have bad teeth. Some Americans/Europeans have poor personal hygiene. Some Americans/Europeans are rude.
Aug 20th, 2005, 04:42 AM
#58
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>At least they didn't go to Cracker Barrel.<
Hmmmmph. We are about to get a Cracker Barrel here in our small town. This will save us from having to drive 35 mi in our gas-guzzling SUVs in order to waddle in and have one of their Sunrise Sampler breakfasts.
"Two Eggs cooked to order with Grits, Sawmill Gravy, Homemade Buttermilk Biscuits, real Butter and the best Preserves, Jam n’ Apple Butter (on request) we could find.
~plus~
Fried Apples and Hashbrown Casserole
~and~
Sampling of Smoked Sausage, Country Ham and Thick-Sliced Bacon".
Yummmmm.
Hmmmmph. We are about to get a Cracker Barrel here in our small town. This will save us from having to drive 35 mi in our gas-guzzling SUVs in order to waddle in and have one of their Sunrise Sampler breakfasts.
"Two Eggs cooked to order with Grits, Sawmill Gravy, Homemade Buttermilk Biscuits, real Butter and the best Preserves, Jam n’ Apple Butter (on request) we could find.
~plus~
Fried Apples and Hashbrown Casserole
~and~
Sampling of Smoked Sausage, Country Ham and Thick-Sliced Bacon".
Yummmmm.
Aug 20th, 2005, 06:04 AM
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pal...
i don't know why you are so surprised. this topic (as i'm sure you know) has been discussed over and over and many of us are just sick of it. ok, i won't speak for others but I am.
thankfully, after the supersize me buzz has died down, we get far fewer annoying lectures by annoying american europhiles on how americans are pigs and europeans live a far superior lifestyle. the fact is, obesity is growing everywhere and like many trends, the US is just a bit ahead of other countries.
here in the UK, physical activity is decreasing and most diets are appalling. it is very difficult to get healthy food outside of major cities. at least in the US, healthy foods are far more available and there is more awareness of fitness. drive around the UK and how many people do you see jogging?
i don't know why you are so surprised. this topic (as i'm sure you know) has been discussed over and over and many of us are just sick of it. ok, i won't speak for others but I am.
thankfully, after the supersize me buzz has died down, we get far fewer annoying lectures by annoying american europhiles on how americans are pigs and europeans live a far superior lifestyle. the fact is, obesity is growing everywhere and like many trends, the US is just a bit ahead of other countries.
here in the UK, physical activity is decreasing and most diets are appalling. it is very difficult to get healthy food outside of major cities. at least in the US, healthy foods are far more available and there is more awareness of fitness. drive around the UK and how many people do you see jogging?
Aug 20th, 2005, 06:27 AM
#60
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I guess going to an Old Country Buffet and looking for thin or overly fit Americans makes as much sense as going to an Irish Pub and looking for an Irishman/woman who doesn't drink.
It's not that all Irish people drink or drink too much or that all Americans are fat, but there are certainly places you can go to confirm a stereotype if that's what you want to do.
But if those French ladies had ventured to a nice restaurant in downtown New York City instead of a middle America Country Buffet, they would have seen that there aren't a lot of fat people in big city places where people walk more and use public transportation instead of sitting in their SUVs and go through drive-throughs for everything from fast food to pharmacies.
I think it's been said on this thread that by nature, people look to confirm existing stereotypes, and they certainly found a place to do that.
The good news is, when you become concious of it, you can LOOK for the differences and appreciate the fact that while there are trends and stereotypes, that's all they are. I at least partially bought the stereotype that the French are rude -- until I went to France and experienced the people myself and found them largely welcoming and curious about us, only more observant of social formalities that us Americans gave up generations ago.
BTW PalQ -- with the French standards of good eating, what possessed you to take them to a buffet anyway? That's like taking Italian guests to the Olive Garden! LOL
Jules
It's not that all Irish people drink or drink too much or that all Americans are fat, but there are certainly places you can go to confirm a stereotype if that's what you want to do.
But if those French ladies had ventured to a nice restaurant in downtown New York City instead of a middle America Country Buffet, they would have seen that there aren't a lot of fat people in big city places where people walk more and use public transportation instead of sitting in their SUVs and go through drive-throughs for everything from fast food to pharmacies.
I think it's been said on this thread that by nature, people look to confirm existing stereotypes, and they certainly found a place to do that.
The good news is, when you become concious of it, you can LOOK for the differences and appreciate the fact that while there are trends and stereotypes, that's all they are. I at least partially bought the stereotype that the French are rude -- until I went to France and experienced the people myself and found them largely welcoming and curious about us, only more observant of social formalities that us Americans gave up generations ago.
BTW PalQ -- with the French standards of good eating, what possessed you to take them to a buffet anyway? That's like taking Italian guests to the Olive Garden! LOL
Jules
