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French speakers, please help!
I'd like to send an e-mail to a restaurant in Paris to make a reservation for our upcoming trip. I speak very little French, so I need help! How's this?...
Bonjour, Je voudrais réserver une table pour deux 5 novembre a 21:00. S'il vous plaît confirmez ma réservation par E-mail. Merci beaucoup. Does that read correctly? I'm not sure if "confirmez" is conjugated correctly. (I'm trying to use an online translator, and I don't really trust it.) And is there any other information I need to include? Thanks!! Meredith |
that looks pretty good- are you sure they don't speak/read English? I like www.freetranslation.com, as a tool. One proviso, I know that in French and Spanish, it uses the formal "you", which is fine for strangers/hotel/restaurants. It has trouble with shades of meaning and idiomatic expressions, but it's not bad. Pimsleur's language programs have much of their lessons devoted to eating out.You can pick them up at any bookstore.
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Just a few slight changes I would make: "Bonjour, j'aimerais réserver une table pour deux personnes le 5 novembre à 21h00. Veuillez confirmer ma réservation par courrier électronique. Merci beaucoup." It may not be perfect perfect like a French person would write, but this would certainly get the message across. In fact, your original would have gotten the message across as well. In fact, your version is probably better than what some French people would have written. :)
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I'd bet they probably do speak English, but I don't want to assume that they absolutely *must* speak it, you know? Thanks to both of you for helping me out!!
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"Je voudrais" sounds a bit more polite and correct to me than "J'aimerais". ??
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Grandmere, je ne suis pas d'accord. "Jaimerais" est parfaitement poli.
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it's very nice of you to want to try to write them in French, but I recently wrote to a hotel asking for a reservation in French, as French is my first language, and my last name is VERY French...guess what? I got a response in English, I believe that when they saw where I live, they just went to English.
By the way, what you first wrote will do just fine. |
Hi,
What you wrote is fine and perfectly understandable. But I like Goatee's modified version which is a tad more formal (I would have suggested making the same small changes). |
I am learning French at evening classes at the moment and I think the original version is fine. Most people learn "je voudrais" for "I would like" and it's far better to stick to something you can apply across the board than to keep tweeking the language just to try and sound more French.
Unless you are French or live there a long time you are unlikely to ever speak French exactly the way a French person would. Think about the reverse situation. If someone French asked you for help or directions would you expect them to get every single syllable correct down to the nearest "if" and "but." Of course not. Buzzy |
Goatee's version is correct French; Meredith's has at least 3 errors in it. So go with the former, please.
The only stylistic change I'd make in Goatee's version is not to use "Bonjour" as a salutation. But I'm just stuffier than most of you -- I wouldn't write "Hello" in an email to a stranger either. (I was taught that the only correct salutation in a letter was "Monsieur:" or "Madame:" -- "Cher Monsieur X" was an anglicism, a vulgarism or both. How times have changed!) |
Tedgale, in my experience, "Bonjour" is fine as a greeting in an email, even when addressing someone you don't know.
Most of my clients are French and I always communicate with them in French. Bonjour is by far the most common salutation used in our email contacts. Madame / Monsieur is sometimes used, but it comes across as very formal in an email. I would never use "Bonjour" in the same way in a written letter though. |
My francophone colleagues here in Canada use the word "un courriel" for email. I understood this to be a word developed in French Canada but had read something a year or so ago saying that it was gaining acceptance in France.
Sure enough, when I was in France in May I saw both "courrier électronique" and "courriel" in Le Monde. I was wondering, hanl, whether you have noticed courriel being used in France. Anselm |
regardless of whether you have it perfect, it gets the point across! and you'll get an A for effort. to be on the safe side include the English translation. have fun!
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There was an interesting article in NYT on "courriel" a while ago --
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstrac...archive:search It's now a premium article. |
The French word used in Quebec for "e-mail" is indeed "courriel" (COURRIer ELectronique) (which by the way lends itself beautifully for the French word for spam: "pourriel", which incorporates the word "pourri" which literally means "rotten"). Many people in France use "mail", but I thought "courrier électronique" would have the best chance of being understood while at the same time being unambiguous. The French government wants everyone to use "courriel", but as you know, just because your government tells you to do something... :)
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I thought courriel would have pinned it down, but I found in France that lots of people use the even shorter "mel", for "message éléctronique".
But certainly eveyone understands, and many use, the English "e-Mail" or "eMail". - Larry |
Talexander, I learned something today; merci!
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Anselm, as Goatee and Larry have said, courriel is standard usage in Québec but not so much in France, despite the best efforts of the French government!
Nobody I know uses <i>courriel</i> orally to refer to email - it seems to be used mainly by French speakers who want to make a point by avoiding Americanisms in their language. Young people here certainly don't talk about sending <i>courriels</i> to each other. Most people here use the term <i>email</i> or <i>mail</i> ("<i>je t'envoie un mail</i>"), and <i>courrier électronique</i> is also common, particularly in written French. These are my observations, at least. :-B |
Wow, I didn't expect to see this many responses! Thanks, everyone!
So I e-mailed the restaurant last night (which, by the way, is L'Angle du Faubourg) using basically my original version, with a few little tweaks per Goatee's suggestion. I also reiterated my message in English, with a little note of apology for any mistakes in my French. I already got a reply confirming my reservation... in English! |
Thanks Goatee, Larry, and hanl. Just after posting this morning I received an e-mail from a colleague ... "Le présent courriel a pour object de vous aviser ..." The use of courriel is alive and well in Canada!!
Anselm |
Hehe, yes it sure is. (I hope the message said "a pour objet" with the "c" - just being obstinate. :) )
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Darn, I meant "without the c".
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Goatee, I just looked again. No "c." My colleague knows how to spell, even if I don't!
Regards, Anselm |
I have to communicate with a lot of French doctors by email (most from the Paris region). I find the doctors themselves just use "email" but their secretaries almost always say courriel. So courriel is alive and well in France, too.
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I had always thought that "pourriel" was derived from "pourri" as Goatee indicated. However, according to the Québec Office de la Langue Français which originated the term, it is a combination: POUbelle (garbage can) and couRRIEL (EMAIL). They also originated another wonderful word for the act of spamming: "pollupostage" from pollution and postage.
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What an informative exchange of messages and information.
I write and say courriel but that is what my (French Canadian) language teacher taught me. Having just read about the use of "mel" (message electronique) I am moved to reflect on the French tendency to contract everything that can be contracted, short of descending into total obscurity. Many of us are familiar with such popular contractions as resto for restaurant and appart for appartement. But I was surprised, lately, to see (on an e-bulletin board) "le we" for le weekend. And more amused still, when reading the usual tired graffiti in a public washroom in France last week, to see "Vive la sodo" -- meaning...(you guessed it!) |
Oh yes, the French love to shorten things. To check your pre-paid mobile phone usage, you check your "conso" (consommation), text messages are "texto", a protest (manifestation) is a "manif", etc etc. :)
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"Oh yes, the French love to shorten things"
So that's why they loved Napoleon? Harzer |
Now, now, let's not dig on Napoleon. He was, after all, 5'6", which according to European standards and men of his day, wasn't too, too small as previously thought. Unfortunately, jokes about his short stature have passed through history, as he was measured by the English system which put him at 5'2"; and it was based on a different one from that of the French (the French height being the accurate one - 5'6"). Hence, he was and has been, unfortunately "shortened" to 5'2" when in actuality he was 5'6".
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Here's a question for all you French mavens: how do the French <i>pronounce</i> "e-mail" when they say it? Do they try to mimic the English pronunciation, "eee-male" (English phonetics)?
But the French have a tendency to pronounce words more as if they were French, or partially so, and the "eee" pronunciation is only associated with "i" or "y" in French. Perhaps they say "euh-male", or "ay-male". Has anyone heard this said? A possible complicating factor is that <i>émail</i> is actually a word in French, meaning "enamel". - Larry |
Meredith, by the way, to stay on the subject of your original question (for a change): you will often find that there's at least one person at a hotel, B&B, or restaurant who can answer an e-mail or fax in good English. Nevertheless, you will earn good will points for having tried to write in French.
- Larry |
The word for email is un courriel.
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Cigalechanta- "e-mail" is the word most often used in France for e-mail. ( pronounced "eee-mel") "Courriel" is the term most often used in Canada (Quebec). It is rare to hear "courriel" in France- at least in my experience, though you may hear "courrier electronique".
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"J'aimerais" ou je voudrais" are both
correct, but better could be "serait-il possible d'avoir une réservation....". Often they want to know in which hotel you are or to have a phone to be able to join you... In great restaurants, it is also often asked to reconfirm the day before... Erik. |
Regarding e-mails, some people in France tend to use the word "mel" (pronounced like "mail"), but "courriel" is in fact the proper denomination.
However not many people use it. For instance, everybody says "e-mail" (à l'anglaise !!) in my company... |
In my experience, the French usually say "mail" (pronounced "mel").
As for "serait-il possible d'avoir une réservation....", sure, that could work of course (so many varieties) but it sounds a bit odd and needlessly wordy. But I mean we're really splitting hairs here. As it has been pointed out, if the place is large enough to be able to be accepting e-mails, it's very possible someone there speaks English anyway. |
I agree with goatee about "Serait-il possible d'avoir une reservation?" It just doesn't sound French -- more like a direct translation of English idiom.
I wince inwardly each time my spouse tells a waiter "Je pense que je vais prendre...." for "I think I'm going to have...." This round-about language is NOT the way the French express themselves -- they are direct where we wander about. Yet they also embellish wildly where we would not -- but only for politeness. A very senior colleague never once asked his secretary "Would you please..?" Instead he said "Auriez-vous l'extreme obligeance de...?" -- i.e. "Would you be so very kind as to..." |
Just wanted to say how much I enjoyed reading this email string!
I stumbled on it this afternoon while doing a post and must say it made me smile and remember my schooling in Québec before I became a transplanted Montrealer. I head off to France next wk on vacation, so "merci mille fois, tout le monde" for giving me a headstart in putting my "French thinking cap" in gear again! And Meredith, I hope you enjoy the restaurant! |
Il n'y a pas de quoi !!!
Enjoy your visit!!! |
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