french gothic cathedrals
 

i will be in france this summer and would like to visit some gothic cathedrals other than notre dame, ste chapelle and chartres. i have heard that amiens and beauvais are interesting. comments?

The Basilica of St Denis should be tops on your list.

Rouen, Amiens, Troyes, Reims are all worth a visit. I find St. Denis less representative of what I would call French Gothic.

I forgot to add Sens to the mix:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/...7622755059630/

Who knows (or cares) what people on the internet think is representative of French Gothic, or how much they know about Rayonnant style, Lancet gothic, Flamboyant Gothic or High Gothic, but it would really strange to express an interest in seeing something beyond Ste Chappele to further your knowledge of gothic cathedrals, and not go to St Denis, the best example of the style of French Gothic from which Ste Chappelle also draws its inspiration.

"Who knows (or cares) what people on the internet think is representative of French Gothic..."

I'm guessing that people who ask for comments about French Gothic cathedrals on internet message boards care what people on the internet think about it. They are probably also interested in the opposing opinions of other people on the internet.

Youngtom--have you seen the recently aired PBS Nova show "Building the Great Cathedrals"? It's a fascinating look at the history of gothic architecture, and details the building of cathedrals in Amiens, Beauvais and others. If you missed it, you can watch it online at PBS. It's worth a look!

Expressing an opinion without using the personal pronoun does not necessarily make it less personal.

The was an excellent show on PBS about the construction of Gothic Cathedrals.

Beauvais, Chartres, Rouen, Amiens, St Denis, Notre Dame.

Nikki,

Unfortunately, you may be right!

I don't know the age or education level of the original poster. He or she may indeed have posted on the internet believing that people more knowledgeable than he or she would provide informed guidance.

My response was intended to clue in the OP that some opinions are not to be taken seriously.

It is amusing -- to say the least -- that Michael has developed a wholly private opinion of what constitutes French Gothic that excludes the basilica of St Denis.

I'm glad he subsequently came back to suggest to the OP that he take a look at a PBS documentary on the subject.

Not excluded, just less representative.

Less representative? To whom?

(Oh. You.)

http://france-for-visitors.com/paris...-st-denis.html

Look, Michael, I read your post. You only talked about yourself. You put in all the qualifiers. I can't stop the OP from arranging his or her trip around your opinion that to "you", St Denis is "less representative" of what you "would call" french gothic -- but I can at least try.

Another suggestion to seek out the recent show about gothic cathedrals (or maybe this is what inspired the post?) My DH and I have no interest in churches, and we found the show fascinating.

You can state your opinion without making false claims about my post. As for "best" (your word), if Wikipedia is correct

"In the 12th century the Abbot Suger rebuilt portions of the abbey church using innovative structural and decorative features that were drawn from a number of other sources. In doing so, he is said to have created the first truly Gothic building.[1] The basilica's 13th century nave is also the prototype for the Rayonnant Gothic style, and provided an architectural model for cathedrals and abbeys of northern France, England and other countries."

one can claim that subsequent cathedrals improved on the original design, and are more representative of what one perceives as French gothic (Chartres and Notre-Dame come to mind).

Oh,grow up! How can people who are useful sources of information engage in childish conflicts over nothing?

No answer on this forum (or almost any other) is comprehensive for the question asked, and all answers to questions of value ("the best" or "the most characteristic") can only represent the opinion of the responder.

I can tell you how to drive from Santa Fe to Georgia O'Keeffe's house in Abiquiu, but I can't tell you if you should. Only if I would.

Ackislander, if there was a "like" button on here, I'd give your comment a big thumbs up. Well said! :)

If you have limited time, I would put Amiens very high on your list.

It might be a personal opinion; but Amiens boasts a couple of superlatives and is indeed one of the finest examples of French high gothic. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiens_Cathedral

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Laon.

Here's a list. I loved all the churches in POitiers

http://www.sacred-destinations.com/f...nce-cathedrals

Is that cathedral-building project still going on in France, where you can sign up to take part in the building of a gothic cathedral? I can't remember the name of it, and google can't either. I believe the name of the cathedral began with a G, and it was started maybe 10 years ago. Anyone know?

St-Denis is essential because it shows the progression of architectural styles that led to Gothic.

Still more for your list: Reims, Autun (with magnificent facade carvings by Ghiselbertis), Troyes, Rouen, Bourges.

StCirq - Are you perhaps thinking instead about the project where a 13th century castle is being constructed using techniques from the time? If so, the site is known as Guédelon.

http://www.guedelon.fr/

I was there a few years ago and I loved it. It is supposed to be finished, I think, in 2025.

And I'll mention the cathedral in Laon. I was just there a few weeks ago and it is indeed a beauty.

Thank you, FMT! It was driving me crazy not being able to remember the name. I googled everything I could think of, including build cathedral france Gue (because I was pretty sure the name began with those letters)...and rien!

This is why I love this forum! I just watched the PBS show "Building the Great Cathedrals" on-line. I would not have known about it without the tip I got here. Thank you, vacationqueen for mentioning it!

Michael, Ackslander and ggreen,

The poster who started this thread was asking a very common -- and important == travel question. He or she will be in Paris with an interest in seeing gothic cathedrals while there with limited resources. This poster is asking other people "Is it worth my time and effort and money to leave Paris to see these other gothic cathedral?"

The Basilica of St Denis is the first gothic architecture in Europe!!! There wasn't a term called "Gothic" when it was built.

It is not a "childish conflict about nothing" to point out that Michael's dismissal and downgrading of a 20 minute subway trip to the Basilica of St Denis while one is in Paris is dreadful travel advice. The Basilica of St Denis is the first gothic architecture in Europe!!! There wasn't a term called "Gothic" when it was built. People object to harsh language here, but Michael's postings about this are ignorant past belief.

It's possible the OP is already planning a visit to St Denis but just didn't mention it. But it's also just a fact that many visitors to Paris relying on cheap pop guidebooks really have no idea the Basilica is there, nor do they yet realize its important to every other gothic cathedral subsequently built elsewhere in France.

The OP asked a serious question with serious questions and he deserved a serious response. When does it occur to the three of you that some innocent person might actually forego a visit to St Denis while in Paris because they got the impression reading Fodor's message board it wasn't worth it because it wasn't gothic? Doesn't that strike you as possibly awful? (If it doesn't, is it possibly because you don't anything about the subject at hand and just care more about entertaining yourself cheerfully on a travel board than helping the person who posted?)

Perhaps Michael doesn't mean to sound like he's saying to the OP: "Don't bother with St Denis while you're in Paris. It's not worth your time if you are interested in French gothic" But that's what it sounds like, and if that's what Michael is telling the OP, I urge the OP to disregard that opinion and give it no respect.

Wow zeppole, I think you are making a lot of assumptions here that do not correspond at all to my reading of the thread! In all my many years on these forums, I have never been accused that I "just care more about entertaining yourself ... than helping the person who posted", and it's likely Michael and Ackislander would feel the same. I came to this thread eager as always to be of assistance to the OP and share my knowledge. But I found the thread hijacked by shrill bickering, to the degree that I gave up trying to contribute anything to the OP's question at hand. (Other posters who persevered are clearly more stoic in this regard than I.)

IMO, your final statement that "perhaps Michael doesn't mean to sound like..." strikes at the crux of the matter. When I first and subsequently read the thread, I didn't see at all that Michael was either denigrating St. Denis or contradicting your opinion of its historical importance. It's simply that it's his opinion that the cathedral is less <i>representative</i> - no reference to possibly being less <i>important</i> - of what he considers to be Gothic architecture. Nor do I remotely begin to see where Michael's opinion "downgrades and dismisses" the suggestion of visiting St. Denis - even after your retorts, he only repeated and clarified his initial observation.

The reason I "liked" Ackislander's comments is they voiced exactly how I felt after reading the PPs: the bickering completely derailed what I had come here to add to the conversation. And as an overall understanding of the forums, I wholly agree that when evaluating the value/worthiness of something, responses can only be subjective and it is up to the reader to weed through the comments for themselves. IMO, based on the way he phrased his post, it sounds like the OP is capable of doing just that.

I have to add that I'm not clear where you got that the OP will "[be] there with limited resources", as there is no mention of this at all in his query. Also, earlier you mis-represented that Michael posted about the PBS documentary; it was Michel_Paris.

Considering my significantly different reading of the thread from yours, plus your patronizing chiding, I really think you are overreacting based on an assumption you made at the beginning and have carried through the entire day. I was shocked and offended to be reprimanded in this manner; I don't think I'll be revisiting this post going forward.

Amiens, Rouen, Metz, Chartres.... and for something completely different and not gothic -- Albi.

You might also be interested in seeing the only cathedral built in France in the 20th century -- Evry, in the Paris suburbs. It was finished in 1997.

"i will be in france this summer and would like to visit some gothic cathedrals other than notre dame, ste chapelle and chartres. i have heard that amiens and beauvais are interesting. comments?"

Zeppole, how did you decide from this information that the poster is only going to Paris and that he has limited means? Did I miss something?

YoungTom - bet you did not know you would stir up such a pot of boiling soup! Ackislander is on themark with her reply and Cigal offers a usefull link. Kerouc also points out a great cathedral to see, on the modern side of the equation. That said, read this thread to learn from the valid answers to your simple question only. Ignore the rest. One lesson to be learned perhaps is that there is a lot to learn about Cathedral Architecture.... enjoy those learnings!

I'm a guy, seafox, but thanks anyway!

Cigale, thanks so much for that website link - it's great!

Also, St. Cirq, the PBS show on Gothic Architecture previously mentioned shows some of the building site you were interested in - Guedelon. Fascinating, as is the whole show. Well worth making the effort to watch it.

Thanks, Sue. I'll try to get to it some evening this week.

I guess its too late to slip in & recommend a Norman-Romanesque style Cathedral

This maybe not what you had in mind but I copied it from the Campanile Hotel website.

Amiens, the cathedral in colour - sound and light display
Amiens, the cathedral in colour - sound and light display
From Tuesday, June 15 2010 to Saturday, January 1 2011
At dusk, the Cathedral of Notre-Dame in Amiens will shimmer with medieval colours. Sit on the square in front of the cathedral for a fine view of the western facade, the gallery of Kings with its twenty-odd statues and the monumental rose window above them. Feel the magical atmosphere created by the lights and music. This show, by a group of artists by the name of Skertzò, will offer you the chance to see this famous cathedral in an entirely new light.

Here's another vote in favor of the cathedral at Chartres. It's the best I've ever seen.

I don't get why, Zeppole, you must make sure to say over and over that your information is the best and only information and that everyone else is wrong and misguided.