French Etiquette Question
 

When you enter a shop and the sales person/owner is in conversation with another customer or the shop is crowded with other shoppers, do you still call out "Bonjour Madame"? This has always stymied me since it feels rude to interrupt a conversation, but also rude not to greet the sales person.

I would definitely not interrupt someone who is having a conversation. That is rude. Wait until you are waited on to say Bonjour, Mme. If no one else is in the shop then say your greeting straight away.

Think about what you would do at home - you would not interrupt someone during a conversation just to say hello.

BTW - I've noticed that many people in Paris are not using Mme, M, Mille in their greeting. Of course, this is the younger generation I'm speaking of.

I agree, Adrienne, I wouldn't interrupt a transaction here, but I don't normally sing out "Helloooo!" when I walk into a store either.

You never interupt a conversation . When it is your turn , you say bonjour.
And Please, interupt at home!

LOL, I meant DON'T

Actually, you will find that if a French person comes into a shop s/he will say to the ether B'jour messieurs/dames" Not so much an interruption so much as a general exclamation

"I've noticed that many people in Paris are not using Mme, M, Mille in their greeting."

You are right. It is only on Fodor's. :-))

I don't call out "hello" when I walk into a shop at home but I do greet the salesperson when I get eye contact.

I think if you are very familiar with the shop and owners/sales people and have long patronized the shop you have a different mode of entering and saying hello than the one-time customer would have. In this case it would be fine to sing out "hello" as the person in conversation would not be obliged to stop the conversation to greet you (or look at you weirdly - whichever the case).

"as the person in conversation would not be obliged to stop the conversation to greet you"

Unless the person is engaged in a vital conversation, I certainly expect him/her to stop it in order to help me. I am not interested to know about his/her plans for next week-end. Politeness goes both ways.

Completely agree with Pv and I've been on both sides of a counter for a long time. Polite, gracious and helpful, it should always be this way. :-)

I'm presuming the sales person is speaking with another customer. I would expect to wait my turn. I hadn't even considered other options as I only expect that type of behavior at Macy's (and that is why I no longer patronize Macy's).

I wouldn't ever "shout" out anything. But in most cases, I've noted that whenever someone enters a business establishment, a quiet "bonjour" or, more formally "mesdames, messieurs, bonjour" is the norm.

In the countryside, we've always heard "Bonjours, messieurs, dames," said everywhere in the same lilting way. Presumably no young person in a village is going to rock the boat by changing the age-old format! At least not while grandmere has her eye on the shop.

And the same Q could be for the mandatory "Au revoir madame" when leaving the establishment

When I was In Provence I had to go to the dr. upon entering the waiting room, everybody smiled and said Bonjour to me.

Very different from US waiting rooms where nobody even looks at you.

As for the other sites near Interlaken, along the 2 lakes Thun and Brienz...any ideas about favorite sites in that area?>

which brings up to me an ironic thing

whenever my French in-laws come to the States they are amazed how friendly people are on the street - often smiling and saying hi as you pass each other

and also cashiers in say supermarkets - much more friendly here - in France you may have the perfunctory "Bonjour Monsier" but that don't mean it is always said in a really friendly fasion in places like the grandes surfaces.

And everytime my son, born and raised in France, returns to France he exclaims how unfriendly and even rude the French are (his words, not mine)

So it is ironic to me that the perfunctory greeting when entering and leaving a small store, office, etc. may not be more than lip service

anyway my French friends are always amazed at how friendly Americans are as opposed to their fellow French folk

"but that don't mean it is always said in a really friendly fasion in places like the grandes surfaces".

I don't think that when sales person/cashier/waiter etc asks you in the US "how are you today? " they are concerned about your feeling better or worse than yesterday.

Pv - Well my French in-laws certainly do feel American clerks are friendlier than those in France.

In fact last year there were consultants hired by a major French retailer to try to infuse the American friendliness in their staff - now i am not talking about Mom and Pop stores or shops where the owner says Bonjour, madame to all.

Some of the French business people feel that Americans can do no wrong in their business practices. I disagree.

To go back to the original question, when one enters a business place with people in conversation, one turns towards the person of importance (i.e. shopkeeper, cashier...) and says a muted 'bonjour' so as not to be brash. The other person will either nod acknowledgement or interrupt the discussion to say 'bonjour' in return.

And if you are ignored, no problem.

But this "friendliness" does not mean anything! The sales person does not care about me (why should he/she? ) anymore than I care about him/her (why should I?). Being asked "how are you today" does not imply any answer from me except "fine, thank you". Is this what you call friendliness? :-))
It would be interesting to see the reaction of the "greeter" if I gave a very detailed answer (headache yesterday morning, dizzy this morning , fine since noon). How long do you think his "friendly" smile would stay stuck to his lips?

Pvoyageuse: You bring up an interesting point: The line between politeness and friendliness. I guess one leads to other -- but only with time (some people needing more time than others).

I've always said 'bonjour' and 'au revoir' when entering and leaving a shop in France but it is a matter of acknowledgement not an interruption.

On my first trip to Paris 10 years ago I asked a shopkeeper a question regarding something I was looking for, she in turn just looked at me and gave no answer, so I asked again if she had the product and again she continued to look at me but offered no response, finally after a minute or so, felt like a lifetime to me, she said 'you must address me and say bonjour madame' wow, was I ever embarrassed however it has stuck and 9 trips later I've never forgotten.
Susan

Sap : Palenque introduced the "friendliness" concept into the discussion. IMO, friendliness and politeness are two very different things. You can be polite without being friendly (with your boss or coworkers or doctor or dentist or butcher or florist) - and friendly without being polite, but this is another story :-))

suspaul.. had the same incident many years ago.. my god.. one learns quickly. I had even started my sentence with, "pardon, excuse-moi,madame,-- mais.. où....??

Silence, stare and then the "Bonjour, Mdme".

Wow. I wish I had been TOLD about this. It never ocurred to me I was being rude ( this was in G. Lafayette).

pvoy - yes about the faux friendliness but i guess i really am talking about customer service and that is what some large French retailers wanted American consultants to advise them on - how to make their staff have better customer service

Now suspaul's experience i think explains why some companies find their staff's customer service to be rather turning off customers -

<On my first trip to Paris 10 years ago I asked a shopkeeper a question regarding something I was looking for, she in turn just looked at me and gave no answer, so I asked again if she had the product and again she continued to look at me but offered no response, finally after a minute or so, felt like a lifetime to me, she said 'you must address me and say bonjour madame'>

Now this is a great example of the lousy customer service French companies or at least some were hiring American consultants to combat.

it's not so much friendliness but sheer UN-friendliness that IME you are much more likely to encounter in a French store than in an American store.

In part i might theorize that French workers after a few years simply cannot be fired for things like being sour and dour - American workers can. French workers i believe are good for life in their jobs barring some gross gross negligence. If wrong please correct me.

My husband and I went to London and Paris in '07. I was telling my husband how "snotty" British men were. Always looking down their nose when talking to us. Regardless whether they are taller or shorter than us! British women are just outright "angry". Scary sometimes. Not all but most. I was not offended or anything, just find it funny.

Paris just took it at a whole new level! My thought on this was that its the "nature" of french people to be alwys in "bad mood" most specially in retail. Story to tell: I was excited to go to the LV store at Champs Elysees. So we went and left after 10 minutes because I got "lectured" by this salesperson when I asked if I could see the handbag behind her. She was angry that I even spoke to her!!! I was so depressed after. When we got back to our hotel, the concierge was friendly so I told him what happened at LV. He told me the salespeople there are really full of it. He told me how it works at the big LV store in Champs Elysees. Anyway, my husband convinced me to go back since this is the closest to our hotel. So, went back to the LV at Champs Elysees, looked for the person with a "sash", assigned a salesperson to me who didn't really pay that much attention to me since she wanted to help this Japanese people who interrupted us...took me 15 minutes and told the salesperson I wll get all of them, 7 of them. She was shocked and right away shifted her attention to me instead of the japanese girl who was still thinking over 1 bag and offered us drinks. I asked her to have all the bags sent to our hotel. Of course, she said with a smile. How funny that experience!

When we went to Cartier at Champs Elysees, the salespeople there are much friendlier. The funny thing, I was more intimidated to go to Cartier than LV but it was more pleasant after all at Cartier than LV.

I think the problem in retail anywhere in the world is that they tend to be nicer to ones who come in "flashy" because assuming these are the ones with money, of course. But a real good retail person know otherwise.

A Gucci salesperson told me once that she picked up on this person who came in in old jumpsuit, cigarette on one hand and with just a wallet. No one wanted to help her because she looked like she can not afford anything. This person helped her, got the shocked of her life because this lady bought an US$10k handbag. It turned out, this lady is an heiress who just didn't like to dress up but loves handbags!

Here is my story of being verbally mugged in Paris by a functionaire - i was with my young son and went into a RATP Information office in some large metro station - just poked my head inside to nab some metro maps off a rack

I barely noticed a young gal at a desk on the other side of the room but soon she yelled - yes yelled at me in French "You come in here and you do NOT say bonjour" - i mean she was screeching at me - if she had any brains she would have known i was a tourist and never acted like that - her job was to welcome folks not verbally attack them

And though i was technically in the wrong not to say bonjour - even when she was so far removed that young gal made me so angry that i yelled something back at her in English - swearing at her and her awful behavior - now that is an example of French customer service and in a public information office at that!

"In part i might theorize that French workers after a few years simply cannot be fired for things like being sour and dour - American workers can. French workers i believe are good for life in their jobs barring some gross gross negligence. If wrong please correct me."

It is indeed difficult to fire a French worker barring gross misconduct but there are subtle ways..

"I think the problem in retail anywhere in the world is that they tend to be nicer to ones who come in "flashy" because assuming these are the ones with money, of course. But a real good retail person know otherwise."

I agree. I usually "dress to shop" if I want decent help. The last time I shopped on Rodeo Drive I inadvertently ended up there after a morning of sailing and found I was almost invisible to the sales staff at a number of shops. I giggled while they sucked up to customers based on their attire.

In Aspen I find the salespeople more savvy as they have many unassuming rich folks milling about town dressed very casually.

The only time I was yelled at in Paris was at a Jewish bakery in the Marais. I practiced, practiced, practiced my order in French in my head while waiting in line but when it was my turn I evidentally spoke too slowly and stupidly because the woman turned to the man behind me and went off about my inability to order. I walked out, went to Sacha Finkelsztejahn where I did NOT get yelled at and where I return whenever I get the chance.
Ann Marie

So, theflock; all clear now?

amwosu - Isnt it funny about dressing to shop.
One day i went to my local Neiman Marcus in work out clothes ( and not my nice workout clothes!) and I was invisible. I was shopping for a hand bag. Well, I got depressed and left.
A few days later I went back to same store, but I was dressed up that day. People fell over themselves trying to help me.
Forget it. I went to another store and purchased my new hand bag.
Sorry to hijack.

I was in Paris a several weeks ago and did not enconter one rude Parisian store clerk. Not once. Lovely people.

Bonjour messieurs-dame, or whatever combination is approriate, is the norm. It is not shouted, just said quietly. (observed sur le qui-vive from April 30 to now).

Personally I like this part of the culture.

If I go into a shop, if I don't hear a bonjour monsieur, I look around for the shopkeeper in order to say bonjour madame/monsieur. And an 'Au revoir' on the way out.


At a restaurant, the same. At an outdoor restaurant setting, I'll at least nod to the waiter before sitting down.

Any time I deal with someone, be it sandwich vendor or Metro ticket seller, it's bonjour...then on to business.

<so I asked again if she had the product and again she continued to look at me but offered no response, finally after a minute or so, felt like a lifetime to me, she said 'you must address me and say bonjour madame'>


What a Scorbutica(Grumpy) woman..Cant believe that she ignored you just because you didn't say "Bonjour".

After all one of her duties was to help you, not ignore you.

Pal considers,

>.....she said 'you must address me and say bonjour madame'>

Now this is a great example of the lousy customer service French companies or at least some were hiring American consultants to combat.

it's not so much friendliness but sheer UN-friendliness ...........<

OTOH, a friend told me of an incident in Paris: After the 3rd time asking a question, but neglecting the "bonjour", the askee said, "Don't you think that it is rude not to acknowledge the presence of another human"?
.................................................. ..............................

>After all one of her duties was to help you,.....<

And "the customer is always right", and "It's my money and I can act any way I want", and "Who do these furriners think they are, anyway?", etc, etc

Down here in my little rural GA town, they think that folks who don't say "good morning", etc, to strangers on the street are being uppity - or are from the North.

((I))

99% of the time there is never a problem with the obligatory greetings, but there have been a few shops I've entered and just felt...uncomfortable. Saying 'bonjour' or au revoir' when there isn't anyone readily available to speak to has felt awkward. But, no one has screamed at me yet so I must be behaving acceptably! I haven't encountered anyone rude in Paris -- just the occasional harried waiter.