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French/British Relations
I will be travelling to France in July to stay near Epinal in Lorraine. The holiday was booked a long time ago. <BR><BR>I just don't know what to think and feel anymore. We are renting a gite in a small village therfore we will be off the tourist trail and I'm worried we will come up against a "cool" reception to say the least. Who wants to go on holiday if it's going to be like that?<BR><BR>At the moment our Prime Minister is fighting for his political life and the French government have helped that to happen. He's the best leader the country has had in decades and Chirac is thwarting his every move. I feel hopless about this.<BR><BR>I really feel that relations between Britain and France will be damaged for a long time as a result of this.<BR><BR>I would just like to hear some views on the travel situation etc. I would particularly like to hear from some French people if possible.<BR><BR>
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I think that your life won't be in danger!!!!<BR>Maybe some people will ask you questions and start a discussion because they would like to understand the different points of views, but that's all!
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Buzzy,<BR><BR>I hear you but I beg to differ on your leader Mr. Blair. While I like him.....Maggie was your best leader in decades!<BR><BR>US
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As a British person living in France, I can't say I've felt that people's reactions have changed towards me or the British in general. <BR><BR>From the discussions I've had with French friends, it's clear that those who are against the war feel angry at Bush and Blair's actions (similar to the anti-war stance in the UK), but it's only the extremists that are going to let those feelings flow over to Joe-tourist. <BR><BR>Incidentally, many of the French people I've spoken to have made it clear that they realise Chirac's anti-war stance may have a lot more to do with trade than pacifism. They aren't all blind jingoists!<BR><BR>If you were planning a summer holiday in a small village in Iraq, then I imagine you'd have cause for concern, but I think it's unlikely that, while on holiday in France, you will be held personally responsable for the actions of your government. Of course, if you go courting arguments and trying to enter into political discussions, then you may come up against some bad feeling. But on the whole, I think it's unlikely.<BR><BR>Remember, you're going on *holiday*!! It's supposed to be fun!!
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Hanl: excellent reply!!!
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Buzzy<BR><BR>I'm basically a fan of Blair (voted for him in the last 2 elections), and was thrilled when he got elected, but I don't think you can blame the French for his current predicament - IMHO he's pretty much brought it on himself.<BR><BR>Like many people, while I had my reservations about the Iraq issue, I was willing to give Blair the benefit of the doubt and was ready to be convinced - something that he just hasn't done. <BR><BR>I don't doubt his conviction & sincerity for a moment, but unfortunately his argument now boils down to nothing more than "I believe this is the right thing to do" - which just isn't good enough.<BR><BR>Personally I am so angry and disappointed with him; angry because he is taking absolutely no account of the opinion of people in the country and in his party, and disappointed because I can't belive he's p***ing away his political career over this - what a waste!
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As a PS to the above, before Uncle Sam starts calling me an appeaser/socialist/weasel/naive :-) , here are the current opinion poll figures in the UK:<BR><BR>70% would support military action endorsed by the UN<BR>20% would support it without UN backing.<BR><BR>If Blair goes ahead without UN backing, and it all goes pear-shaped, he can't say he wasn't warned.<BR><BR>
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I would never dream of starting up political dicussions with locals while on holiday and I have never been rude or unpleasant to anyone while travelling. I am not that way inclined as a person anyway. <BR><BR>I just feel that due to the fact that some English abroad have let the country down in the past many other nations have reservations about the English. I though that this certainly would not be helped by the current situation. Although goodness knows what will have happened by July.<BR><BR>Re: Blair "throwing away" his career over this. I have to say there is no better measure of someones sincere convictions, than to be prepared to sacrifice your own future for them.
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Buzzy<BR><BR>As I said, I don't disagree about Blair's sincerity; I actually think it's admirable, and I don't think anyone could argue now that he's acting from cynical motives. My concern is that, even if he's proved right, because of the way it's been handled, it's going to be a pyhrric victory.<BR><BR>Anyway, to get back on topic, I don't think the French would be cool towards you. As has been said many times before on this site, most people across the world are intelligent enough to make a distinction between national politics and individual people. Sure, you'll find the odd rude person anywhere, but if you're unlucky enough to do so, I'd just rise above it & not stoop to their level.
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Just a small thing I wanted to add.<BR><BR>I work in adult eduaction and have a student of 81 in my class who fought in the 2nd world war.<BR><BR>My neighbours on either side were both in the same position.<BR><BR>They all support Blair and tell me their friends still living do also. <BR><BR>Having been subjected to the most awful experiences, they saw first hand the consequences of leaving a dictator in power. They basically feel that the younger generation have led such comfortable lives that they find it difficult to get passionate about issues in the wider world.<BR><BR>They feel that this is the real reason for the "No War" lobby gaining the upper hand. That and the fact that is is so un politically correct these days to advocate war at all.<BR><BR>We need to listen to the older genration as well.
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Bonjour Buzzy,<BR><BR>As a Frenchwoman, living in a small village, I can tell you that, unless they indulge in the kind of hawkish and rude comments parts of the American press, Uncle Sam, and government enjoy presently, British and American tourists will be received as welcome guests.<BR><BR>Discussing politics is a pastime in France, not something to spoil your appetite on. <BR><BR>BTW, my parents, grandparents, and neighbours in their 80's lived and fought through WW2, are without exception anti-war, and are absolutely shocked by the intelligence-insulting notion that Saddam's is to be compared with Hitler's menace ...
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Florence<BR><BR>Remember that the rude anti-French sentiments in Britain are published in papers like the Sun. I wouldn't use that paper to line my cat's litter tray in case she caught a horrible disease. Most people respect the suffering and heroism of the ordinary French people in WWII.<BR>
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Hi Maccy,<BR> I am not trying to start an argument, but I wonder; Would Blair jeopardize his career, his party and his country unless he knew something that he could not tell because his intelligence sources would be killed?
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I think Blair is showing the courage of his convictions, just like Bush. Remember how things were prior to WWII. Britain thought that Hitler was their friend and not a threat! What a major boo boo that was!
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How many people has Saddam killed in acts of aggression? 2 million. Who will put a stop to it?<BR><BR>As far as political discussions, the best advice I heard here on this board was to simply be up on another French subject and change the subject of international politics to something else when and if it comes up.
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Bonjour Sylvia,<BR><BR>I know about the Sun. We got a few rags like this here too. Just good enough to give people diseases of the mind ;-)<BR><BR>Ira,<BR><BR>"We would like to apologize for the way in which politicians are represented in this programme. It was never our intention to imply that politicians are weak-kneed, political time-servers who are more concerned with their personal vendettas and private power struggles than the problems of government, nor to suggest at any point that they sacrifice their credibility by denying free debate on vital matters in the mistaken impression that party unity comes before the well-being of the people they supposedly represent, nor to imply at any stage that they are squabbling little toadies without an ounce of concern for the vital social problems of today. Nor indeed do we intend that viewers should consider them as crabby ulcerous little self- seeking vermin with furry legs and an excessive addiction to alcohol and certain explicit sexual practices which some people might find offensive. We are sorry if this impression has come across. (Monty Python)"<BR>
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Hi Ira<BR><BR>Re your point "Would Blair jeopardize his career, his party and his country unless he knew something that he could not tell because his intelligence sources would be killed?"<BR><BR>The thing is, while Blair has talked about terrorist threats which he could not give details of (and I wouldn't expect him to), he is not using the "I know something you don't" argument re: Iraq. <BR><BR>Last night, he was quizzed on TV by members of the public and was asked just that - he in fact glossed over it, and moved on to his other points. <BR><BR>Also, presumably, if he did have clinching evidence, you can bet he would have shared it with the other members of the Security Council by now.<BR><BR>Finally, any leader is asking a huge amount of his public to say "I can't tell you anything, but I'm right, so you all just have to trust me".<BR><BR>
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... continued <BR><BR>What I think it really boils down to, as the poll I mentioned earlier, is that Blair does have some good arguments and most British people would back miliary action - *with the consensus of the International community*. <BR><BR>Remember, this is not just about a war in Iraq, it's about what happens afterwards. The US and UK don't need the help or approval of the UN or other countries to win the war - they'll need it to win the peace though. Otherwise we'll find ourselves in the same position again 10 years from now, just with a different bunch of head-cases in charge. <BR>
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Buzzy,<BR><BR>I completely agree with you & share your concern. I am an American and my husband and I's trip to France & Germany this April/May is something we've been dreaming about for years. As the days go on my stomach sinks a bit at what we might encounter in our travels.... doesn't make for an enjoyable dream trip.....or if in fact we should even go. American/French relations are certainly very poor as well. <BR><BR>We really respect your Prime Minister. Both he and our President are trying to face a sitiuation instead for hoping it'll go away like most the world. <BR><BR>I too am interested in travelers who have been to Paris or major european cities and their experiences. We plan to still go as of now....<BR>
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I haven't been lately, but my neighbor travels to Europe monthly. I asked him how his trip to Paris was last week, and he said he definitely felt a chill in the air and a heightened "attitude" towards him as an American. <BR><BR>One taxi driver even stopped the taxi, turned around and started asking him why he wanted to start a war! This is a guy who's lived overseas in the past. He said he definitely received a frosty reception last week.
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