heatherrrr

My husband and I are flying into Paris May 2017 and staying for 18 days. Not counting first and last day, I'm planning an itinerary that covers 16 days. What I've included are our must-sees...but not sure if this is too aggressive with the time we have...any help or advice would be appreciated! (Please excuse the lack of capitalization, I've cut and pasted the below plan)

Start- 3 days in Paris
take train south to toulouse/albi to see carcasonne
2 days in albi
take train east to riviera/cote d'azur/marseille area
2 days in riviera
take train north to switzerland stay in Bern and visit Interlaken area
4 days in Switzerland
take train north to strasbourg
2 days in strasbourg
take train back to paris
3 days in paris

Michael

If you want to see Albi and Carcassonne, use Toulouse as your base, not Albi, as there is no direct connection between Albi and Carcassonne, as far as I know. Both towns don't require more than a day's outing.

heatherrrr

Thank you Michael! I will take that into consideration.

PalenQ

For train info to plan and get advice about tickets check these IMO informative sources: www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

You have a few options for tickets -one the easiest is to go the Eurail Select Pass route valid in France, Switzerland and Germany and Italy if you want to dash over to Italy from the Riviera - easily done by train

Or the discounted ticket route where you book weeks/months in advance to get the limited in number discounted tickets that are typically non-changeable, non-refundable or have a hefty refund but are a lot cheaper than full fare walk up tickets - if doing those the Eurail Select will probably be cheaper and give you first class travel to boot.

I'd head to Nice for the two days on the Cote d'Azur - not Marseilles area - so many neat places in and around Nice.

heatherrrr

PalenQ-

I meant to mention we're from the US, and we both speak some French but not fluently. No other languages. Do you think this will be a problem in any of the areas I mentioned? I don't want to just assume someone will know English!

We're also budget-conscious but willing to splurge when it's called for. We're artsy and prefer nature to shopping. Good food is nice but not a big deal. I'd like a good mix of touristy and off-the-beaten-path. What do you think about renting a car for any of it?

I'd appreciate your advice!

StCirq

I don't see the value in splitting up your time in Paris with 3 days to start and 3 days to end. I'd go directly to the Toulouse area (and I disagree that one day is enough to see it - it's a magnificent place and IMO deserves a good 2-3 full days). I would rent a car for the trip to Carcassonne and, besides, Albi, tool around all the wonderful places that surround Toulouse.

As a general comment, two days somewhere gives you very, very little time to get acclimated and oriented and find your way around and see anything. And if any of those days is Sunday or Monday - whoosh! Plans foiled.

You don't need fluent French to get by in any of these places, but of course the more you know, the better. And never, ever skip the usual pleasantries.

kja

I agree with StCirq about both going straight to Toulouse upon arrival AND about giving that charming city at least 2 or 3 full days, with perhaps an extra day if you want to see Albi from Toulouse (it's only an hour away).

I must admit that I find your itinerary far too ambitious for my tastes, but of course, it depends on what YOU want to see and experience and at what pace.

If you haven't already done so, I strongly encourage you to get the <i>Michelin Green Guides</i> to these areas and studying them before finalizing your plans.

As long as you know the basic pleasantries in French, language should not be a barrier. But DO be sure you know the basic civilities!

Hope that helps!

Whathello

I agree with kja agreeing with StCirq.

Michelin Green Guide is - for me - THE reference for France.

Everybody you will need to talk to will know at least basic english, so with your basic french on top you'll be ok.

I also find you try to cover too much ground. I would drop Switzerland, both to give more time for the rest of the trip (not to see something else) and because I don't like Switzerland that much as it is actually the place in Europe that holds the least appeal for me. But that may be because of me...

Enjoy your holiday !

PalenQ

Michelin green guides are great for motorists but if going by train to a few cities not so much- go to your library photo copy the few relevant pages from it and perhaps some other guides and save money and not having to lug the guidebook around for just a handful of places.

Michael

The places of interest listed by the OP argue for the train, which is why I suggested Toulouse as a hub. If transportation is by car, I would choose another hub, easier to get in and out.

heatherrrr

Wow, I really, really appreciate the feedback you have all given me. I have a lot to think about! I am very intent on Switzerland and my husband is very intent on Carcasonne. Strangely, neither of us is as interested in Paris. We were thinking 3 days at the beginning and end would be a sort of break, allow us to adjust after jet lag and sort of wander without a plan. Maybe we go directly to Toulouse instead of starting with 3 days in Paris. OR, we could drop the Cote D'Azur? I will definitely check out the Michelin Green Guide. Luckily I work in a library!

As far as pleasantries, I will be as cordial as I know how to be!

heatherrrr

Michael, would you recommend doing any part of the trip by car rather than train? The thought of renting a car really feels overwhelming, but it also gives us some additional flexibility.

Michael

It all depends on how you organize your itinerary. I generally like to drive, but our last trip this spring was done with public transportation because I was uncomfortable with the idea of Cyrillic signage on the Bulgarian roads and the car rental would not have been convenient as to the drop-off considering our itinerary.

PalenQ

The thought of renting a car really feels overwhelming, but it also gives us some additional flexibility.>

could be nice especially if you ditch Paris - take the bullet train to say Avignon and drive thru Provence to the Cote d'Azur - or up towards Switzerland - ditch the car in France and take Switzerland's fabulous trains from there.

heatherrrr

Whathello, I was wondering why you discourage Switzerland. I could consider dropping it in favor of focusing on France only. I'm mainly interested in the gorgeous scenery, and from what I've read Old Town Berne sounds charming. I have that classic Alpine postcard in my head- does it exist? Tern also looks amazing. Maybe I should move this to another Forum or post?

PalenQ, I like your idea of the bullet to Avignon...hmmmmm.....I will have to do some research on Avignon. Are the Swiss trains wonderful?

No one has offered an opinion on Strasbourg. Is this an interesting town? The streets and buildings look charming and out of a storybook. That's what I'm looking for here.

Christina

I don't think whathello likes Switzerland. SOMe people do, some don't. I have a German friend who dislikes it a lot but some other friends who love it. It is an "easy" place to visit as things are clean, pleasant and efficient. I've never been to Bern, however.

Your itinerary is a lot of moving around, but I don't see anything un-doable.

Switzerland has efficient trains as does Germany, France, etc. There are some good scenic routes in Switzerland, though, if that's what you are looking for and what you meant by that. I took one between Zurich and Montreux, as I recall. Here is some info on those routes,
http://www.swisstravelsystem.com/en/...-journeys.html

yes, Strasbourg is interesting.

StCirq

Of course Strasbourg is an interesting town - center of the European Parliament, switched between Germany and France 11 times, great food, gorgeous scenery, what's not to love?

I am with whathello - I do not like Switzerland (or Austria, maybe Austria even less). I've been a dozen times and will never go again. WAY too expensive, xenophobic people, uptight society, mediocre food and ambience. Yes, it's gorgeous scenery, but that doesn't balance well with the rest of it for me. ANd there's gorgeous scenery all over different parts of Europe.

Michael

Taking the train to Avignon essentially means leaving out Albi and Carcassonne if the destination after the Côte d'Azur is Switzerland.

suze

I love Switzerland, the Lac Leman area outside Geneva is where I have spent the most time. It's amazing.

If neither of you is really interested in Paris (not sure why, but since that's what you say) I sure wouldn't do it twice, 3 days each.

That's 6 out of your 18 days spent in a place no one cares about!

kja

FWIW, I recommend the <i>Michelin Green Guide</i> to anyone traveling to these regions, whether using car or train, because I found it supremely useful. Another really good guidebook for these locations is, IME, the <i>Rough Guide</i>. You should be able to consult these books at your library, but I would note that the cost of a guidebook or two is nugatory in comparison to the cost of a trip like the one you are contemplating. And the opportunity cost of missing something you would have enjoyed (after traveling so far and at a nontrivial cost) because you didn't know about it is also worth considering. Finally, there are all sorts of things that novice travelers don't know, and won't think to ask, that you can learn from a good guidebook. They are, IMO, worth every penny!

I enjoyed Switzerland immensely; obviously, as with anywhere, people have different opinions and that only ones that matter are what YOU want to see and experience.