Go Back  Fodor's Travel Talk Forums > Destinations > Europe
Reload this Page >

France, Spain, Italy and a hint of Switzerland

France, Spain, Italy and a hint of Switzerland

Old Dec 1st, 2013, 03:45 AM
  #21  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hi!

I went from Venezia to Chur, via Bernina Pass but not using the expensive train but only locals also narrow gauged, three years ago in May. I had to go to Milano, and there to Tirano by train too, where the Swiss train starts.

It is a nice trip, but takes two or three days.

There is another long scenic train trip. You can go from Venezia to Bolzano, and then get the narrow gauge train to Merano. From Merano to Zernez there is a bus crossing the border to Zernez, where you can get the narrow gauge train to Chur.
Both ways are wonderfull.
carreteraymanta is offline  
Old Dec 1st, 2013, 02:36 PM
  #22  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
via Bernina Pass but not using the expensive train but only locals also narrow gauged, three years ago in May>

I have taken both the official posh Bernina Express and the normal non-plush local trains - scenery of course is the same and these locals are rarely stuffed to the gills, unlike the official trains often are with tour groups IME, so I could hop from side to side as scenery dictated it (most of the great scenery is on the west-facing side if I recall correctly.
PalenQ is offline  
Old Dec 1st, 2013, 03:01 PM
  #23  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thanks carreteraymanta & PalenQ......good to know there is the BE option and local trains, however looking into the BE there is something appealing about the panoramic sightseeing cars (given this is available at the time we are travelling) however maybe i am just geeting hooked on the idea rather than practicality. Definitely worth looking into both - once we have decided where to stop over (or if to stopover)and then where to base ourselves from Chur. Thanks again
Kat207 is offline  
Old Dec 2nd, 2013, 12:27 PM
  #24  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I think the whole idea of Panoramic cars or Observation cars, whatever you want to call them is overrated - glass tops otherwise about the same size windows - huge as regular trains and the big different in seeing is that on local trains you easily can hop back and forth as the scenery dictates - official trains always it seems being full so you are stuck in your seat and if that seat is not a window seat...

there is I believe commentary on the official trains and it is marginally faster because it does not stop as much - still one of the world's slowest 'express' trains!
PalenQ is offline  
Old Dec 2nd, 2013, 01:00 PM
  #25  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Palenque is right with the size of the Windows, but there is also a second important characteristic if the weather is ok, you can open it and LEAN OUT OF THE WINDOW , not only to get a better view but in order to take pictures of the whole train , with the "lokomotive" entering a tunnel...

As there are a lot of trains, you can also get off the train at the best spots, but I understand it takes time.
carreteraymanta is offline  
Old Dec 3rd, 2013, 12:17 AM
  #26  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hi All

Really appreciate all your help so far, one thing I'm still struggling with is my trip from Venice to Paris via Switzerland. I've got about 4 nights I can spend in between Venice and Paris and wondering what my ideal way to see and explore Switzerland but still be in an okay position to get to Paris.

When I think of Switzerland I think of glorious mountains and sight seeing. Not into skiing but maybe a short hike or two, but mainly just want to view the beautiful country and maybe visit a small town/city. A train up one of the famous 'alps' would be cool too. Reminder we are there end July.

I've read a few forums and thinking either Lucerne or Interlaken as a 'base' maybe even Wengen. From what I can see I have two options, direct or a scenic route via Bernia Express which is very appealing however wondering if its worth it given its in the wrong direction where I am thinking to base. Below are some options I can see, but open to any advice/recommendation you think would work.

Venice - Milan - chur - lucerne or interlaken (via Bernia express, which is appealing)
Venice - Milan - brig - spies - interlaken or wengen

Sorry for all the question....this is the part I am having most trouble putting true pieces together! Thanks in advance
Kat207 is offline  
Old Dec 3rd, 2013, 01:52 AM
  #27  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hi Kat207,

First of all, I want to caution you against building an itinerary around a train ride. They are fun and scenic, yes, but they are no substitute for getting your feet off the train and getting your face in the sun with the scenery directly in your eyes.

The trains to Paris leave from Geneva (or Lausanne) and from Basel -- Basel is more convenient for the mountain destinations you list.

The train ride directly from Venice to Luzern is 7h22 with 1 change up to 8h16 with 3 changes. The train ride via the Bernina Express takes 12 or 13 hours -- the best part of that trip is the stretch between Poschiavo and St. Mortiz, where you leave the beautiful green Poschiavo Valley behind you, climb up to the glaciers and the watershed at Alp Grüm, and then slide back down into St. Moritz. If you don't do this stunning portion, I'm not sure that the BE would be as spectacular as you expect.

So, that's just too much of a detour I think. I would just get to my destination and hit the mountains on foot. Since you have so little time, I would suggest these as possible bases:

Luzern, as you're already thinking. It offers everything that Switzerland is known for: mountains, lakes, history, and nearby small towns. You can do it all from here. The trip to Basel for the onward travel to Paris is about an hour.

Spiez, right on Lake Thun. It's a nifty small town that's convenient to visit the big Alps and small mountain villages, plus you can also visit Gstaad and Gruyeres. Venice to Spiez is about 5h30 with 1 change, and the trip to Basel is about 1h30.

Brig, a small town that's often overlooked by tourists. It has a beautiful flower-decked, café-lined central square with shopping streets radiating off in every direction. It's about 30 minutes from the car-free mountain villages of Riederalp and Bettmeralp and about an hour from Zermatt. There are direct (0 changes) trains from Venice, which take about 5 hours. The trip to Geneva is about 2h30 to continue to Paris.

Have fun as you plan!

s
swandav2000 is offline  
Old Dec 3rd, 2013, 07:48 AM
  #28  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
With that limited time I'd forego the Bernina Pass rail route in favor of spending all your Swiss time in the Interlaken area, to me and many the absolute highlight of Switzerland - the dreamy glacier-girdled Alpine Switzerland perhaps etched in your minds' eyes - then from Interlaken Paris is only about 4 hours (from Bern) by high-speed train.
PalenQ is offline  
Old Dec 3rd, 2013, 09:29 AM
  #29  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
And BTW several trains right in the Jungfrau Region are also spectacularly scenic - like ALL of them - rising to mountain tops or higher elevations so it is not that you would not see any dramatically scenic railways - not quite as awesome as the Bernina Pass line but still awesomely scenic.
PalenQ is offline  
Old Dec 4th, 2013, 12:31 AM
  #30  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thanks Swandav and PalenQ.....I did think skipping the BE was going to be best given the the time we have, so you both helped my curiosity there. Good advice not planning a holiday around a train ride!!!

I think we"ll now go straight to the region/base which looks pretty easy, just it to decide where!! Spiez and Brig look to be good options I hadn't considered to ill ad them to the bunch to decide upon!!

Thanks again or you help, special thanks to PalenQ for helping me numerous times on this forum!!
Kat207 is offline  
Old Dec 4th, 2013, 06:39 AM
  #31  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thanks for the thanks! I would say consider staying right up in the Alps - like a Grindelwald or Wengen or Zermatt - Brig and especially Spiez are nice but being right up in the hills eyeball to eyeball with soaring cliffs and glaciers descending practically to your hotel (Grindelwald) is so so exceptional.
PalenQ is offline  
Old Dec 4th, 2013, 11:07 AM
  #32  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The main thing to do at Cinque Terre is walking and you don't really have enough time to do that if you stay only one night.>

Well that depends - do you have to do the whole 7-mile-long main trail between the 5 Lands or just parts - I'd say in a nice half day you could do some of the best part of the walks or easiest ones - walking the 5 Lands is the thing to do but not sure if you need to spend two days doing it- we actually day tripped in from Santa Margharita-L and walked the whole length is about 4-5 hours - well I was a tad younger then but still full thing even possible depending on shape you are in and will to do it - not for most perhaps.
PalenQ is offline  
Old Dec 4th, 2013, 09:32 PM
  #33  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hi again,

Since you are going in July/August, I would definitely avoid Interlaken and Grindelwald -- since those towns allow car traffic, that's where all of the tour busses go. The towns are too small to absorb them gracefully, so they get choked up with lines and lines of tour busses and the swarming hordes of the off-loaded day-trippers. I found it to be acutely unpleasant.

I think four nights is a rather short visit, and it takes some time to get up to the car-free villages. But, yes, they are spectacular and do offer you unique and beautiful vistas and experiences. But if you want to minimize travel time and maximize time on your feet exploring, I would head to Brig or Spiez.

Have fun!

s
swandav2000 is offline  
Old Dec 5th, 2013, 03:41 AM
  #34  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Not my experience in Grindelwald at all - most of the town is off-limits to vehicles - where most hotels are and Interlaken off the beaten path that most tourists stick to is also quiet - like the Matten area - I think swandav totally mis-characterizes the plague of tour buses in those two towns as they only affect a small area of them IME of being in those towns in August many times.

But different folks see different things - what I see and swandav sees in says Interlaken are totally opposite in many ways. Grindelwald to me despite its possible drawbacks of many tourists is my recommended base for the Jungfrau region because it is centrally located and the views from its hotels are magnificent.
PalenQ is offline  
Old Dec 5th, 2013, 08:32 AM
  #35  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
But if you want to minimize travel time and maximize time on your feet exploring, I would head to Brig or Spiez.>

could you explain this - OP wants to go to Interlaken area and all the main lures are only had by going thru Interlaken then up into the hills - now if they were also doing Zermatt as a day trip then I could see this but for the Jungfrau Region staying in Brig would be just silly and Spiez as well - if they want to see the Jungfrau Region as indicated.
PalenQ is offline  
Old Dec 5th, 2013, 10:31 AM
  #36  
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,445
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Drop the Cinque Terre this trip and add a nite to Venice. Two nites in Venice is only one day and that's not enough.
dwdvagamundo is offline  
Old Dec 5th, 2013, 11:32 AM
  #37  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
yes yes to dwdvagamundo - getting to the Cinque Terre and staying but one night means very little time there - a waste of time IMO if you can't stay at least a full day. Maybe a day trip from Florence - I've done that but if you have to relocate, etc then not much time in the 5 Lands.
PalenQ is offline  
Old Dec 6th, 2013, 09:34 PM
  #38  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Yes, I'll be happy to explain it, Pal.

On 3 December, the OP said this:

"I've read a few forums and thinking either Lucerne or Interlaken as a 'base' maybe even Wengen."

So, clearly, s/he isn't settled on only going to Interlaken nor is s/he set only on seeing the Jungfrau region.

My suggestions are alternatives to the Jungfrau region. Yes, I agree -- a base in Brig to see the Jungfrau would be silly; it's silly to even imagine my suggesting it.

s
swandav2000 is offline  
Old Dec 8th, 2013, 10:25 AM
  #39  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thanks PalenQ and swandav appreciate both your views and will be deciding between those areas! Just need to do some more research I think!

Lois, not sure who you are referring to this is my only one account and not sure what I have to gain by doing so?

Anyways, appreciate everyone's input....thanks again
Kat207 is offline  
Old Dec 9th, 2013, 10:03 AM
  #40  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 78,320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Well anyway if going to Zermatt or the Jungfrau Region I would definitely advise staying right up in the mountains, eyeball to eyeball with the majestic soaring glacier-girdled peaks - Spiez is a nice small town overlooking a nice lake and with distant views of the high Alps but nothing IME can compare to staying in a Wengen or Grindelwald or Zermatt. And I have stayed in Brig too and it is a nice town but not in the high Alps.
PalenQ is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Original Poster
Forum
Replies
Last Post
saralynnrose
Europe
5
Jan 2nd, 2017 04:59 PM
cocomaria
Europe
40
Jun 6th, 2016 10:35 PM
confusedhuman
Europe
18
Apr 27th, 2015 06:05 AM
Bob2010
Europe
21
Feb 16th, 2010 11:42 AM
Jan_604
Europe
9
Mar 19th, 2008 12:02 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -