Go Back  Fodor's Travel Talk Forums > Destinations > Europe
Reload this Page >

France opens to those from North America – there are restrictions

France opens to those from North America – there are restrictions

Old Jun 4th, 2021, 10:46 PM
  #41  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,912
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
By making it up as they go along, I mean that they're not adhering to consistent scientific standards.

UK has been making everyone test when arriving from a foreign destination. From Feb to March, out of hundreds of thousands of arrivals, the tests that they made people do resulted in like slightly over 2% positivity rate.

  • Between 25 February and 5 May 2021, 365,895 tests were conducted on arriving passengers to the UK. These were PCR negative before travel. Only 2.2% tested positive for COVID-19 infection during universal quarantine measures after their arrival. Of these, over half were from “red list” countries, which were considered very high risk. Removing them from the statistics would result in test positivity of 1.46%.
  • Of the 103,473 arrivals from the EU (excluding Ireland), 1.35% tested positive. Three countries, Bulgaria, Poland and Romania, accounted for 60% of the positive cases.
Now IATA is not a completely objective source but they're citing data and studies done by others.

For instance, they cite these studies about vaccinated travelers, including on the question of whether vaccinated people are likely to transmit infections:

Vaccinated Travelers

Evidence continues to show that vaccination protects travelers from serious illness and death, and carries a low risk of introducing the virus into destination countries:
  • The Robert Koch Institute (RKI) concluded that vaccinated travelers are no longer significant in the spread of the disease and do not pose a major risk to the German population.
  • The European Centre for Disease Control and Prevention (ECDC) issued interim guidance on the benefits of full vaccination stating that “the likelihood of an infected vaccinated person transmitting the disease is currently assessed to be very low to low.”
  • The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (US CDC) stated that “with a 90% effective vaccine, pre-travel testing, post-travel testing, and 7-day self-quarantine provide minimal additional benefit.”
  • The Canadian Testing and Screening Expert Advisory Panel recommends that vaccinated travelers do not need to be quarantined.
  • A Public Health England study has concluded that two doses of the COVID-19 vaccines are highly effective against COVID-19 variants of concern.
https://go.updates.iata.org/webmail/...852ed2405b013a

So why is France requiring vaccinated people to also take a test? The odds are that any virus that enters your system would be cleared by antibodies stimulated by the vaccines. So you'd have very little virus in your nose and throat if any. Not denying there aren't breakthrough infections but the odds are very low compared to community spread already happening in France and other EU countries. IOW, French people are far more likely to get infected by unvaccinated French people, not by vaccinated Americans visiting France. For that matter, far more likely to be infected by an unvaccinated Australian, who is allowed to visit without vaccination or tests.

Germany is even more cautious, which doesn't make sense because their policies are set by the same RKI organization which is cited above about their findings about vaccinated travelers.


But if it makes EU policy makers feel better to ease into things, that's the way it has to be ...

scrb11 is online now  
Old Jun 4th, 2021, 11:37 PM
  #42  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,216
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
>For that matter, far more likely to be infected by an unvaccinated Australian, who is allowed to visit without vaccination or tests.<

Except by and large Australians are not allowed to travel outside Australia, it's mostly only foreign nationals returning home who are going to Europe and a small percentage of individuals who meet the hardship criteria. Most people (like me) are not allowed to leave the country and that's how it's been since last March. We now have a travel bubble with NZ but that's it, and we currently have around about 100 cases of Covid in the whole country, due only to runaway infection in Victoria. So I would not be hasty to attribute infection spread to Aussies, there's just nothing to back that up. We are also vaccinating - it's been slow, but it's happening.

Lavandula
lavandula is offline  
Old Jun 4th, 2021, 11:55 PM
  #43  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,912
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The point is an unvaccinated person regardless of their nationality has much greater potential to infect.

if someone who was a French national had been living in Australia during the past year decided to go to France but isn’t vaccinated, she is far likely to get infected and infect others than someone from a Red list country who was vaccinated.
scrb11 is online now  
Old Jun 5th, 2021, 07:40 AM
  #44  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 21,779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by scrb11 View Post
The point is an unvaccinated person regardless of their nationality has much greater potential to infect.

if someone who was a French national had been living in Australia during the past year decided to go to France but isn’t vaccinated, she is far likely to get infected and infect others than someone from a Red list country who was vaccinated.
But like all un-vaccinated individuals she would have to self quarantine and be tested at both end of the quarantine.
Michael is offline  
Old Jun 5th, 2021, 08:17 AM
  #45  
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 22,748
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes on 1 Post
Originally Posted by scrb11 View Post
By making it up as they go along, I mean that they're not adhering to consistent scientific standards.
The science keeps evolving too. Remember when top scientists were saying that masks were useless? And with more and more variants, I think we can expect more contradictions of what we were told in the past. Remember when 20 year olds were not at risk of either contracting or spreading the disease?
kerouac is online now  
Old Jun 6th, 2021, 06:17 PM
  #46  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,767
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by lavandula View Post
>For that matter, far more likely to be infected by an unvaccinated Australian, who is allowed to visit without vaccination or tests.<

Except by and large Australians are not allowed to travel outside Australia, it's mostly only foreign nationals returning home who are going to Europe and a small percentage of individuals who meet the hardship criteria. Most people (like me) are not allowed to leave the country and that's how it's been since last March. We now have a travel bubble with NZ but that's it, and we currently have around about 100 cases of Covid in the whole country, due only to runaway infection in Victoria. So I would not be hasty to attribute infection spread to Aussies, there's just nothing to back that up. We are also vaccinating - it's been slow, but it's happening.

Lavandula
agree
northie is offline  
Old Jun 7th, 2021, 05:17 AM
  #47  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,895
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by scrb11 View Post
By making it up as they go along, I mean that they're not adhering to consistent scientific standards.

So why is France requiring vaccinated people to also take a test? The odds are that any virus that enters your system would be cleared by antibodies stimulated by the vaccines. So you'd have very little virus in your nose and throat if any....
My guess: Because there is no universal vaccine passport system to identify fully vaccinated people. So countries will stipulate a test, and only the test they trust, administered by an outfit they trust (i.e.I am also guessing, no do-it-yourself tests.)

My rule of thumb were I attempting to travel overseas is to go by what one's airline is requiring in the way of departure protocol. After all, the airline is the one saddled with finding space on return flights if one is refused entry at passport control.

And then there's the US-Canada border, which is gonna be interesting.
Sue_xx_yy is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Original Poster
Forum
Replies
Last Post
PalenQ
Europe
21
Dec 26th, 2012 10:46 AM
Paul
Europe
19
Jun 17th, 2000 03:49 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Do Not Sell My Personal Information


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:32 AM.