frenchaucoeur

I'm a little reluctant to start this whole thing up again, but as I plan our trip for next year I wonder if anyone, perhaps those in Paris, have any updates on what is happening with rental apartments. I know the new law requiring registration numbers for apartments listed on the web goes into effect sometime this month, and I"m wondering whether anyone has seen any reports in the media about how agencies are planning to meet this requirement and whether apartments are being withdrawn from the market in anticipation of the law.

Thanks.

fuzzbucket

There was never a specific date mentioned when the changes would go into effect.

Agencies are still listing property. There has never been any indication of how they will handle the changes, but agency lobbies are hoping that they can appeal the ruling and that they can continue to list property as before. This will probably not happen.

Since the law has already been passed, there is nothing to prevent it from being enforced, except for the technical measures which must take effect.

Things move slowly during "la rentree", when people are just getting back to work.

Since the new laws concern a lot of tax revenue that the city sorely needs, you can be sure changes won't be long in coming.

If anyone is looking to rent from the end of 2016 and onwards, I wouldn't put down a deposit until you see a registration number on any listing.

Sarastro

I have been searching the news for an update but have not yet seen anything.

What is not clear is whether or not the city will vet the registration requests they receive or if they will issue a number to anyone who asks for one. If they vet the requests, it could delay full implementation as there are potentially thousands of legitimate rentals (and probably tens of thousands of illegal apartments). It´s going to take some time.

If the city issues numbers to anyone who asks for one, the whole process could be accelerated and the vetting could be completed at a later date.

Still, the basic rules have not changed as to which apartments are legal and which are not. The types of legal apartments are:

1. Apartment hotels such as Citadine, Adagio and a few others.

2. Vacation apartments approved by the city of which there are just over 100:
http://tinyurl.com/legal-apartments

3. Apartments offered by owner/primary occupants for a period of when they are away not to exceed 120 days annually.

topeater

Please keep us posted. We are also hoping to rent next year around either May or October.

fuzzbucket

The whole point of the new law was to confirm whether the property owner is acting legally, by declaring income and paying taxes, and not renting his property as an illegal hotel.

There would be absolutely no point in giving a registration number to anyone who just asked for one and could not provide this information.

The information on all listings which appear on the internet has already been collected - this was done before the Mayor's crackdown began to take effect.

The plan is to block the internet address of any listing that is not in compliance. It has not yet been decided whether the property owner must appear in person or may be able to access an account online and submit documents proving he is in compliance. When this is verified, he will receive a registration number and will be permitted to advertise on the internet.

I suspect that there will be some sort of black market effect, which might possibly involve agencies. Just as in the past, when "someone knew someone who had a friend whose grandmother rented out a spare apartment".

cafegoddess

So far no problem with our rental for the end of the year/beginning of 2017.

schnauzer

Thanks for asking this question. I too am wanting to book accommodation for next year and am in a quandary as to what to do. I notice on the site/agency I usually use there are yet to be any bookings for next year which in itself is odd.

I have been looking at hotels just in case and now see so many are already booked for the dates I require. I honestly don't believe there are enough hotel rooms to meet the tourist requirements, so if the hotels fill up the tourists will go elsewhere and take their money with them. Is this not short sighted?

I have said it before and will say again I find the aparthotels very clinical and also very expensive far more so than the apartments I have rented in the past.

I still find it hard to come to terms with the fact that all these apartment agencies who have been doing this for years could potentially lose their livelihood.

If we can't 'get into Paris' because it's booked out do we go elsewhere?

Wit_Van_Brug

You are probably trying to book hotels too far ahead. Unlike appartments, many (most?)hotels don't accept reservations until much nearer the time.
"all these apartment agencies who have been doing this for years could potentially lose their livelihood."
It's not the agencies, it's the owners who are operating illegally. You do feel sorry for people who are guilty of tax evasion?

fuzzbucket

The agency you always use might have had its properties removed from the market for a variety of reasons, or might not be taking reservations until the situation is sorted out. To do so would mean refunding money and lots of headaches.

You are probably not using enough search engine options if you can't find enough hotels in Paris. Most people just stick with a couple of SEO's out of habit. Google more efficiently, change your wording, check the "pages jaunes" for hotels that don't want to pay for internet listings.

There are many more affordable options in towns that are only a short train ride away from central Paris. Versailles comes to mind, Chantilly...many apartments and hotels here.

Tourism is down across the board in Paris at the rate of approximately 27%, and there are plenty of rooms available. This includes the most-requested hotel rooms in all areas of the central city, at prices between 110 - 180 per night.

It depends on your budget needs, as to whether or not you consider apart'hotel chains a luxury. Many people prefer to pay for the conveniences offered by legal apart'hotels, and are happy to walk just outside the door to find all the charm they need in Paris.
What many people have been accustomed to will not be available much longer, and you will just have to get used to it. Apartments are a fairly recent development - people got along without them very well when hotels were all that was available.

Agencies will probably find a way around the situation.

Whathello

'If we can't 'get into Paris' because it's booked out do we go elsewhere?'

Maybe it would be good. Maybe you don't want to be with 1500 tourists at every corner.

Maybe it is a good idea to keep some apartments for the locals instead of them having to commute.

Maybe Paris will stay alive and not be turned into a Disney city.

Maybe the vocation of Paris is not to be only a tourist city.

A disaster ?

As for people who broke the law, well they have had their good years, now they have to find another scheme. Legal or illegal.

Do you feel sorry when fake items are no longer available ?
Would you feel sorry if drugs are no longer available on the streets ?

janisj

<B>cafegoddess:</B> >>So far no problem with our rental for the end of the year/beginning of 2017.<<

How would you know there is no problem with it?

<B>schnauzer:</B> >>I have been looking at hotels just in case and now see so many are already booked for the dates I require.<<

When are you trying to book -- IME many hotels won't accept bookings until they have set the next year's rates. So sometimes they will show 'no availability' until sometime in the Fall for the next year. Everything I've read is tourism and hotel occupancy rates are way down. IF you do find a hotel you like that says 'not available' -- e-mail them and ask.

StCirq

<<I honestly don't believe there are enough hotel rooms to meet the tourist requirements,>>

Ridiculous. There are plenty. You're either trying to book too early (they don't even open the books for bookings until after January - it's an age-old system) or looking in the wrong places.

frenchaucoeur

Thanks for the replies. Just for the record, we're planning to be in Paris in late June, and I have booked a hotel just in case, although I'd much prefer an apartment. I contacted several hotels and had no trouble getting rates and, ultimately, a reservation, so whatever past practice may have been, at least some hotels are taking reservations pretty far out.

I looked at Citadines and Adagio and also at the Residence Henri IV in the Fifth and the new Paris Perfect residence in the place Dauphine, but they were incredibly expensive for a stay of around two weeks (and I am not a budget traveler). The space was small and institutional at Citadines and Adagio (and the Henry IV and the pl. D a bit de trop and very very expensive), so we decided to book a hotel and see how things shake out.

I hope people will continue to post new information over the next couple of months. Many of us are caught between not wanting to stay in a hotel room for a prolonged period and not wanting to do anything illegal and also possibly learn that we have no accommodation right before our arrival. It's not about "living like a Parisian," whatever that means. It's about space and comfort and also about saving considerable money.

Thanks for your help.

kerouac

Space and comfort and saving considerable money are in plentiful supply in the outer arrondissements. The problem is that too many people absolutely want to squeeze together in the center.

Envierges

Outer arrondissements? On no no no!!!

There be dragons!!!!!

julies

But, kerouac, don't these same rules apply to apartments in outer arrondissements? Our last trip we stayed in the 11th which while not super far out certainly isn't in the list of highly sought after single digit arrondissements.

Count me in as a member of the group who doesn't want a sterile and vastly overpriced (a really bad price/value ratio) apartotel environment and who also does not want an extended stay in a regular hotel room. We like to spread out when staying for more than a night or two. And, we don't need a front desk or a concierge or 24 hour staffing, all of which contribute to the high cost of both hotels and apartotels. We've done just fine on our own in flats and houses and gites all over the world. The salaries of employees are what inflate the costs of hotels and apartotels.

We are spending three weeks in France next month and are not even stopping in Paris other than making a flight connection there on one way. I truly like Paris, but I am one of those who is not going to make an extended trip there sitting in a small cube of a hotel room or an apartotel. So, perhaps we have done our last Paris trip. There are other places in the world too.....

fuzzbucket

If you're travelling in late June, there's a possibility that some Parisien residents might go on vacation during that time, but normally most people go in July and August. If you're lucky, you might find someone who has complied with the city, has a registration number, and can advertise his apartment on the internet for the 2 weeks you require. I'll bet there will be a lot of competition for that kind of apartment, though.

Why not split the difference and stay in a nicer hotel for one week and move to another less expensive hotel in a different arrondissement? Do you absolutely need a kitchen the whole time, or just more room? Hotel Langlois is a wonderful hotel with spacious, charming rooms. Hotel des Saints-Peres, Hotel Keppler also have large rooms.

A great many rental agencies do not have an actual "pignon sur rue" - a physical office in Paris. They exist only via the internet, require only a couple of employees per website and may be based anywhere in the world.

The people who will really feel the pinch are individuals and corporations renting illegally via AirBnB and the other internet portals.

Whathello

So. I can't find cheap rooms in hotels because people book hotels just in case.

denisea

A question about Sarastro's post about the list of legal apartments...at one point I thought the approved list numbered around 600 (maybe from another thread on Fodors). Sarastro's post mentions that there are only 100. Am I remembering this incorrectly? There is certainly a good bit of what seems conflicting info. Parisian Fodorites....which site or list is likely to be the right truth source?

frenchaucoeur

As Julies points out, the restrictions on apartment rentals apply in all arrondissements. As for the space, as older travelers we like to come back to wherever we're staying and flop for a few hours late in the afternoon, sprawling on a couch and catching up on news or whatever; also, my husband unfortunately has to do some work while we're away, and he needs space for his laptop and other stuff. It's hard to manage that in a hotel room with maybe a small desk and one or at most two not very comfortable chairs.

We also appreciate the possibility of eating in some evenings, maybe having picked something up at a traiteur or at a market. No elaborate cooking but the possibility of maybe making a fresh veggie to go with the poulet roti or whatever.

I don't feel I have to justify our preferences to posters who look down on those of us who prefer apartments. I understand the issues--I live in Manhattan, where there has been a battle for years--and I will abide by the law. But the implicit condescension of some posters does get a bit much.