France itinerary revised!! What do you think?
 

June 13-26- like I said in previous posts, this trip is to sample these regions (Loire, Burgundy, and Provence.) However, we don't want to feel like we're on "The Amazing Race" either... We've all been to Paris, so that's why we're saving only one full day at the end.

6/13- Early arrive at CDG, take train to Amboise and p/u car. Overnight Amboise.
6/14- Visit chatteax, overnight Amboise
6/15- Drive to Bourges to see windows, then on to Vezelay- overnight Vezelay
6/16- explore Vezelay and area around Vezelay, overnight Vezelay
6/17- more Burgundy exploration, overnight Beaune
6/18- driving day to Provence. Possibly make it to St. Remy
6/19-6/21- St. Remy and surrounding areas
6/22-6/23- Aix
6/24- d/o car, take train from Aix to Paris
6/25 Paris
6/26- home

Thoughts????

I think you are going to be a little rushed at the beginning of your trip. Remember, places like Chateau Bazouches closes for lunch, Tanlay has specific tour times, museums may close for lunch, all of which may reduce the stuff you can do in a day. We were doing a lot of driving in Burgundy because the main sites were not close together like they are in Provence.

Are you going to do my Lavender Route in Provence? The lavender should be blooming in late June when you are there.

IMO, Aix is a half-day visit. You really don't need to spend 2 nights there if you're on a fast paced schedule. Arrive at noon, have lunch on the Cours, and then explore the town in the afternoon & evening.

Have you considerd staying in Provence on the night before your flight home?? This would give you 2 more days (assumng you're not excited about seeing Paris again - like you mentioned).

There is a 7:55am TGV from Aix that arrives at CDG at 11:21. Also, a 6:12 that leaves Avignon and arrives at CDG at 9:34. You could even go back to Dijon in Burgundy, stay overnight your last night, and take the 6:30am train to CDG that arrives at 8:20. We've done the Dijon thing twice.

Not sure I would stop in Bourges, unless you want to stretch your legs.

Stu Dudley

Thank you SO much for your thoughts!! ***We have decided to SKIP Paris***... our flights leaves at 11:40am on June 26th... so we would need to take the train from Avignon... or go through Burgundy...
I'm very excited about this decision... and I'm really looking forward to spending more time in Provence.

So, we may need to re-work our itinerary know that we have 2 extra days. Would you suggest staying in Provence the entire time? Or add more time in Burgundy... or even stay in Lyon...???

I think your schedule is a little more cramped in Burgundy than in Provence. However, I would add a day to each (Beaune & St Remy).

On the day you leave Burgundy, if you feel that you have not visited all the places on your "must see" list, then spend most of that day in Burgundy & leave for St Remy after lunch - or a little later.

On travel day, if you've seen the big attractions in Burgundy & ready to head to sunny Provence, leave early in the day & perhaps hit some of the Northern Provence highlights - Grignan Chateau, the Cote du Rhone winegrowing villages/Dentelles/Vaison la Romaine, etc.

Stu Dudley

TTT- any other thoughts or suggestions??

My only thought regarding taking the TGV on the date of your departure flight is to check the days before to make sure there isn't a strike planned on that day. Train strikes are not uncommon in France, from what I recall of my days os study abroad. I think the last train strike in France was in November. It happened to us in Italy a number of years ago as well. We stayed in Orvieto (about an hourish away from Rome, with frequent train service into Rome) the night before our 11:55 AM flight out of Rome. We showed up at 7:15 AM at the Orvieto train station, and there were no trains running on that day. We had to take a cab to Rome for 200 euros. Ever since that experience, I always sleep the night before at the town my flight departs. If you choose not to sleep in Paris, then you need to make sure that the trains will be departing as planned on your departure day, so you have time to extend your car rental or rent a car.

>>any other thoughts or suggestions??<<

Top this tomorrow when most people are back to work and have lots of free time to surf the travel forums.

Stu Dudley

TTT because Stu said I could :D

We now have some extra time since we are skipping Paris. How would you work in those days?

Hi TX,

>***We have decided to SKIP Paris***... our flights leaves at 11:40am on June 26th... so we would need to take the train from Avignon.....<

Highly contraindicated.

To get from Burgundy you will arrive in Paris at the Bercy.

You have to get to the airport from there.

In order to be at CDG 3 hr before flight time, you'll take the 04:54 out of Auxerre.

The first TGV from Avignon won't get you to CDG until 09:34.

What happens if your train is delayed en route?

I strongly recommend that you stay in Paris the night before.

((I))

Good idea Ira... or, what about staying in Dijon the night before? Would that be doable? Train from Provence the 25th... over night in Dijon, train to CDG that morning...

Can you work this in reverse? Head straight for Avignon on the TGV on the day of arrival, then work your way back to Paris. Makes for a busy first day, but it might be possible given your early flight arrival.

You could ditch the car in Tours after doing your Amboise section, and head for Paris on the TGV for just the night in Paris before your flight. (In case of emergency, i.e. strike planned for day of departure to Paris, you could always revert to your last-2-nights-in-Paris plan, i.e. leave earlier for Paris. Or even drive to CDG from Amboise, ditch car there and overnight Paris prior to departure.)

Ira/TXgalinGA

Like I stated earlier, there is a TGV that goes directly from Dijon to CDG and arrives at CDG at 8:21am. We have taken this train twice.

We have also taken the TGV from Avignon that arrives at CDG at 9:34. We've even started the day in Chambery & taken the slow train to Lyon, changed to the TGV & arrived at CDG in time for the flight home.

I don't have any statistice to prove this, but I suspect the on-time rate of the TGV is better than Air France's on-time rate. Both the TVGs from Dijon & Avignon arrive at least 2 hrs before departure. If you would be comfortable with taking a flight from Nice (for example) to CDG for a connection home, then you should be equally comfortable with taking the TGV, IMO. I actually feel more comfortable because I'm in control of my luggage on the train.

Several years ago, our very close friends tooka Tax i from Paris to CDG. There was a huge strike & blockade of some sort and they missed their flight. I've had good luck, & never missed a flight from Paris.

Stu Dudley

Thanks Stu! I'm pretty risky ;)... so I don't think I would be too concerned about missing our flight. And if something happens, then it was meant to be! I guess the question is, where do we want to spend our last night?? It won't be Paris... Dijon may be safer...

The Dijon station is right in town. We stayed at the Tulip/Jura, which is about 50 yds from the station. Very nice hotel.

The Avignon TGV is out of town. We walked to an area across the street from the in-town station & took a shuttle to the Avignon TGV.

Like I said earlier, I think your Burgundy itinerary is cramped. Dijon is a "do not miss" for me. I would skip Dijon while you're in Burgundy, and hit it the day before your flight home. There are many TGVs from both Aix & Avignon to Dijon. If you get there by 3:00 or so, you'll have plenty of time to see lots in Dijon in June, when it's light late. Dine at Stephane Derdord for the best meal you'll likely to have on your trip. Click on my name to see a detailed description of our dinner there.

Stu Dudley

Good advice from Stu re Dijon.

((I))

**I think we've got it!!! (Rather, I hope we do!) I've just listed our overnights. Any final thoughts before we begin booking hotels???
~TIA

6/13: Arrive CDG, train to Amboise, pick-up car. o/n Amboise
6/14 Amboise
6/15 Vezelay
6/16 Vezelay
6/17 Beaune
6/18 head to Provence, stay near Lyon
6/19 St. Remy
6/20 St. Remy
6/21 St. Remy
6/22 St. Remy
6/23 St. Remy
6/24 St. Remy
6/25- drop off car, early train to Dijon. o/n Dijon
6/26 early train to CDG, fly home

Hi TX,

May I suggest adding a night to Dijon?

I think that you will find it's worth it.

Look it up under "Destinations".

((I))

Take away a night in St. Remy and add 1 in Dijon?

Hi I just saw your posting on tripadvisor and came back here to tell you the same as Ira! I think it is a pity to see such a tiny bit of Dijon!

Would it be okay take the train from Provence and stay in Dijon without a car. Maybe an afternoon train... that way we would have 2 evenings and one full day in Dijon...would we want our car?
Also, does it make sense to stay in Beaune towards the middle of our trip and save Dijon for last? (With Provence in the middle)

You definitely don't need a car in Dijon.
It takes a few hours (about 5 maybe, it depends on where you take the train from ) from la provence to Dijon so don't take it too late.
If you want to stop in Beaune in the middle of your trip, why not? It would cut the long way south from Vezelay.

Thanks Coco!!! After Vezelay, we *are* stopping in Beaune! (17 June)

Hi TX,

>Take away a night in St. Remy and add 1 in Dijon? <

Yes.

I'll let coco tell you about Dijon. She lives there.

You might want to consider staying at www.myhomeindijon.com/

It has gotten good reviews here.

((I))

PS,

We will be staying in Beaune on our upcoming trip at www.hotel-grillon.fr/

((I))

Thanks Ira, and I hope we'll meet in Dijon on your trip in May. :-)
If it is still at the end of May we could even make a GTG with hdm who will be staying in Dijon. :-)

Not sure why you're staying near Lyon. You can make the trip from Beaune to St Remy in 4 hrs. I would not stay near Lyon - except perhaps in Perouges, but that's not too far away from Beaune and it takes some effort & time to get there - but it's a very cute village (read about it). Immediatly around Lyon, it's industrial with not too many interesting things - except for Lyon itself - and I would not recommend trying to drive into Lyon.

South of Lyon in the Ardeche region to the west, and the Alps to the east, there are some very interesting & scenic stuff - but they are all at least 1 hr off the freeway on winding roads. Immediatly next to the freeway are a few nuclear power plants, heavy & light industry, and some OK famous winegrowing villages/cities that we did not find too interesting. We stayed in the Ardeche for 2 weeks in '05, and drove the Alps a few times.

If this was my trip, I would power away to Provence. An alternative would be to stay in Northern Provence for a night, like I mentioned earlier.

When we were in the Lyon area (Beaujolais) in Sept, it was bumper to bumper traffic around Lyon on the freeway, so try to time your trip to be after rush hour (11 or so).

Another thought

I would break up your Provence stay into two locations - St Remy and either the Luberon (Gordes, Roussillon, etc), or near Vaison in the very pretty winegrowing region and the Dentelles. I think that would give you a little more diversity, and provide easier driving access to the sites east & northeast of Avignon - which are my favorite areas in Provence (Lavender fields, Alps, gorges, fewer tourists).

When we first spent extended time in Provence, we stayed for 2 weeks in four different areas - St Remy, Luberon, near Uzes, and near Vaison. We've also spent 4 weeks just east of Aix - but that's a little too far east for you. We returned again for 2 week stays in the Luberon, & 2 weeks near Vaison because we enjoyed these regions the most. This June we'll spend another 4 weeks near Vaison/Mt Ventoux. The St Remy area is a little more arid than either the Luberon or near Vaison. The flora, fauna, & terraine are also a bit different. I always try for some diversity - that's why I usually recommend splitting the time into 2 different areas when visiting Provence for 5 days or more.

Stu Dudley

Regarding Dijon

As I've stated many times on this Forum, Dijon is perhaps my favorite city in France after Paris.

However, for someone who is on a fast-paced schedule like you are, I think 2 nights in Dijon is too much. The frist time we visited Dijon, we arrived around noon and saw everything we wanted by the time we went to dinner.

Also, your schedule has you arriving in Dijon on a Monday. In most cities in France, many of the shops are closed on Monday mornings. Some open in the afternoon. We were in Dijon for the Patrimonie on a Sunday and ALL the shops were closed - except for a very few. If you stay there Sunday & Monday nights, Dijon might seem a bit dead & un-inviting to a first timer who wants to sit at cafes, watch the crowd, shop a bit, etc.

It's about a 2 3/4 to 3 1/2 train ride from Avignon to Dijon. If you arrive around noon, visit the Palais des Ducs (while shops are closed), take the Owl Walk (hopefully the tourist office will be open on Monday - Coco??), have a coffee on the Pl de la Liberation or R Amiral Roussan, admire the wonderful architecture, etc then I think you'll experience Dijon adequately.

IMO, I think if anything need adjusting in your latest itinerary (in addition to dropping the overnight near Lyon and splitting the stays in Provence), I would suggest that you spend 1 more night in Beaune. If you don't overnight near Lyon, then stay in Beaune instead.

Stu Dudley

Hi Coco,

We are still scheduled to be in Beaune May 27-30.

I'll keep in touch.

((I))

Hi to Coco as well!
What are your thoughts about us arriving in Dijon on a Sunday and spending all of Monday there. Will many attractions be closed? If so, then Stu brings up a good point...
So I believe we will skip our overnight in Lyon and head directly to Provence. I like the idea of staying in two seperate towns so I will look into that.
It was also suggested to me that our time in the Loire was too rushed. Should we add a third night in Amboise? Or are we okay?

The tourist office near Place Darcy (not far from the railway station) opens everyday, then go there and ask for the owl's trail brochure (2€).
http://www.dijon-tourism.com/uk/dijo...s_chouette.htm
and also http://www.dijon-tourism.com/uk/dijon_visiovisit.htm

Museums all open on both days (except Magnin museum closed on Mondays)
http://www.dijon-tourism.com/uk/dijo...re_museums.htm

The atmosphere is different on Sundays, no hurry, people take the time for a stroll in the old parts of Dijon. Stu is right check rue Amiral Roussin, but also rue Verrerie and the antique shops. You can't get lost if you can see the tower of the ducal palace (tour Philippe le Bon)
On Monday people are back to work but not all the shops reopen in the morning, but they will in the afternoon.
Have a look at Maille shop for mustard, one of my favourite shop fronts, in front of the Galeries Lafayette.
If you haven't seen my Dijon pics yet:
http://tinyurl.com/okerl

I hope I'm not dominating the replies too much - but regarding the Loire.

I think both Burgundy & Provence are much prettier areas, IMO. The Loire (if you somehow remove the Chateaux), is one of our least favorite regions in France that we have visited (we spend 2 months in France most years). However, the Chateaux are fabulous - but they have some very nice ones in Burgundy also (none to speak of, in Provence). If you can visit Chambord, Chenonceau, the gardens at Villandry, and the Chateau at Amboise, then I think an "average" chateau lover will be satisfied. You may have time for Cheverny too. If you arrive at Amboise mid-day, visit Amboise, and then hit Chenonceau in the late afternoon when the huge crowds thin a bit, then you'll have plenty of time for 3-4 chateaux/gardens the next day. If it does not interrupt your dinner plans, visit a Son et Lumiere show in the evening. Many people get "chateau-ed out" after about 4. Don't know where your threshold is. We saw apout 25 last year in the Auvergne, Beaujolais, and Burgundy regions, so we're real troopers.

Regarding Sunday & Monday in Dijon. We were in Dijon on a Sunday for their Patrimonie festival. All the shops were closed. The museum was open, which it normal on a Sunday. Check with Coco, but it's normal for shops to be closed on a Monday morning. Like I stated, I think Dijon is a 3/4 day visit anyway. If you get there at noon, you'll have plenty of time to see all you'll want to see.

I would spend Sunday in sunny Provence - lots of things going on there on a Sunday. Market in l'Isle sur la Sorgue, Luberon villages, shops in St Remy are open (more things closed on Monday than Sunday there), my Lavender Fields drive.

I assume you have my 20+ page Provence itinerary which describes our favorite sites, villages, drives, etc. It has my Lavender Route, and a section on Provence fabric (we have over 60 tablecloths that we have purchased there). E-mail me at [email protected] if you want a copy. I have some other info that might be of interest to you also.

Stu Dudley