bezay

My boyfriend & I are embarking on our first trip to Europe this October. We are in our mid to early 30’s and are just excited to see everything, absorb in the culture, eat & drink etc but we would preferably like to see the less touristy traps.
We are going for about 4 weeks (28 days) and are landing and departing from Paris, France.

We are totally and utterly overwhelmed with places to visit, things to see etc but having spent a lot of time reading all the forums and getting a whole bunch of ideas – the similar thread seems to be less is more! We now have a very rough idea and have narrowed it down to a rough itinerary.

We are thinking of going –

Most of the trip is via Eurorail

Paris – 6 nights (Versailles, Champagne, Reims region)
Lyon – 3 nights (via rail)
We are undecided whether we should go to:
Avignon OR Montpellier – 3 nights

This is part of the itinerary where we are stuck? We can’t seem to find a train that takes us from Avignon or Montpellier to either Venice, Florence?

Venice – 4 nights
Cinque Terre – 3 nights
Florence – 3 nights
Rome – 3 nights

Should there be a part of the trip where we drive perhaps?

Any advice/suggestion/help would be kindly appreciated.

Michel_Paris

You are in Paris for first time, and are planning to spend half of it elsewhere. I would limit it to maybe 1 day trip

Check to see if Eurail Pass makes sense. You can bet low cost PREMs to Lyons on TGV cheap.3 nights is perfect

Michael

According to www.sncf.com, there is a 10+ hour train ride from Avignon to Florence via Lyon and Torino.

FrenchMystiqueTours

I'll let other people more knowledgeable than me help you with the train travel questions you have but overall for a first trip to Europe this itinerary doesn't look too bad. Of course there are literally a thousand other things you could do but this looks like a good introductory course to learning about Europe. People could make loads of other suggestions for places you can visit but ultimately you'll need to do the hard research and decide for yourselves what interests you.

But I've got a couple of thoughts. When you say you've got "x" number of nights in a place realize that you need to subtract a day to figure out how many full days you'll have to visit a place to account for travel time between places. The more often you move the more sightseeing time you lose.

With 6 days in Paris you says you want to visit Reims and Champagne. Reims is in the Champagne region.

You are heading to Lyon after Paris and although I've never been there I know it's a wonderful place and the gastronomic capital of France. However, I might skip it since you are already visiting Paris and it's a repeat of a large city experience. Most all the places on your itinerary can be visited by train/plane and I think using those three days from Lyon and applying them to the Avignon area and then renting a car and exploring the countryside near Avignon would be a great idea.

So, after 6 nights in Paris take the TGV to Avignon and you can rent a car right outside the train station and then explore the countryside and small villages there for a few days. Then return the car and head on to Italy.

One last comment. You said you want to see the less touristy places but you realize that all the places you mentioned are very touristy, don't you? I wouldn't worry about that because there's nothing wrong with seeing touristy places on your first trip to Europe. On a first trip it might be a lot less stressful in terms of planning to see some of the places that are "the biggest and the best" and that are easily connected by public transport.

StuDudley

You have only large cities in your itinerary (except for the Cinque Terre). I think you may get sick of large cities in 22 nights. Also, your destinations are not quite "we would preferably like to see the less touristy traps". And, yes - getting from Avignon or Montpellier to Venice is difficult on a train. You could fly from Marseille or perhaps even Montpellier (we don't fly within Europe - we plan a more condensed itinerary - and we usually travel 4-6 weeks at a time)

IMO, Provence & Tuscany are best visited by car. The countryside of each of these regions is breathtaking.

I would do:
- Paris as planned
- Lyon 2 nights
- Take the TGV to Avignon and rent a car.
- Provence 5 nights
- drive to the CT and spend 3 nights there
- drive to Tuscany (Pienza, Montepulciano, etc) and spend 5 nights
- Dump the car & take the train or bus from Siena or Chuisi to Florence.
- Florence 2-3 nights
- train to Venice 3-4 nights
- train to Rome - 4 nights
- Fly to Paris & then fly home.

You should have booked an "open jaw" flight - in to Paris & out of Rome.

Some people will warn you about the car drop off costs. But consider:
- the "basic" rental of a car from France is less than in Italy
- If you rent a car in Italy you must purchase CDW (insurance). If you rent a car in France, your CC should cover your insurance.

other note.

If you add the Cote d'Azur/Nice to your itinerary, getting to the CT & beyond is easier by train - but you wouldn't have a car to explore the beautiful Tuscany countryside.

Stu Dudley

StuDudley

I agree with FrenchMystiqueTours that you drop Lyon. After Paris & before Avignon - that's a lot of concrete/congestion, etc. I would use that time to explore the Provence countryside.

I have a 27 page itinerary for Provence & the Cote d'Azur and another for Italy (with a heavy dose of Tuscany). I've sent them to over 4,000 people on Fodor's & aol. If you would like a copy, e-mail me at [email protected] & I'll attach a copy to the reply e-mail.

Stu Dudley

FrenchMystiqueTours

And Stu's got some good ideas too. But one other point that I didn't raise has to do with your comment about rail passes and before you ever consider a rail pass you have to compare what the difference would be between the cost of point to point ticket purchases. There are usually only certain circumstances under which a rail pass would be cost/time efficient. To learn more about rail travel in Europe the "Bible" of rail travel websites is www.seat61.com. This will tell you just about everything you need to know about rail travel in Europe.

FrenchMystiqueTours

Woah, I missed that part about landing in and departing from Paris. You haven't booked that flight yet, have you?

bezay

Thank you everyone for your comments.

We have already booked the flight and it lands and departs from Paris so where ever we end up, we need to get back to Paris. In hindsight, it would have probably been better to land in Paris and fly out of Rome...

Sorry - just realised my comments were totally contradictory. I've listed all the major cities and want it to be less touristy!!! I guess with first time experience you live and learn.

DebitNM

Great info. Bookmark

Michael

Have you taken into account the cross-border drop-off fee on car rentals?

will_power27

Your itinerary sounds really good. Unfortunatley everywhere in Europe has become somewhat touristy, and France and Italy are the worst.
I agree with some of the other posters about the Eurorail pass (before buying it you should make sure it is what works best for you), and travel time - between getting from the terminal to your hotel to put your stuff away most of the day is gone.
Renting a car is a good option if one of you is willing to drive, and if you do rent a car, try to make sure that your accomodations do have free parking ($15 a night adds up quickly) and remember that it can take longer to get places in a car than with a train. Do not plan to use the car much to get around the city as traffic and parking can be a pain. All these cities have great transit systems (bus/metro) so try to get a hotel close to a terminal.
We decided to fly from France to Italy as it took less time, and we found flight tickets to be really cheap ($60 from Paris to Milan). Others mentioned getting tired, but I found that Venice is an awsome city to recharge. It is not very cosmopolitan, and is one of those cities you can just spend a whole day walking around.
You mentioned wanting to go to Versailles, try to go on a day they have the fountains on, as they are amazing.

jamikins

Since your flight is in and out of Paris, why dont you get on the train at CDG and train directly to Provence (Avignon) and then continue your itinerary. There are reasonably priced flights from Rome to Paris so when you are done in Rome fly to Paris and spend your final 6 nights there. That way you can be relaxed about catching your flight home and you dont have to deal with splitting your time in Paris.

FrenchMystiqueTours

I like jamikins idea of going right to Provence and save Paris for the end of your trip.

StuDudley

Definitely head to Provence from CDG first, then return to Paris from Rome & visit Paris then. The TGV ride (3 hrs) is very relaxing & cheap if you get Prem fares.

Stu Dudley