France in June--Itinerary help
 

Hello! My family of 4 (me, DH, 9yo and 12yo daughters) is doing our first European vacation this summer. We are flying in and out of Paris in the middle of June, for a total of 12 nights. We have the first 4 nights booked in Paris. We plan to take our time touring the city, day trip to versailles, and maybe one other day trip (Colmar or Loire Valley are on our radar) depending on how we feel, how fast we are moving, etc. From Paris we would like to take the train and check out some other regions. The French Alps (Chamonix, Annecy, maybe?) and Provence (Avignon or Aix-en-Provence, maybe?) are the areas we are focused on, but bordeaux wine country and the southern coast also have appeal. But for now I'm thinking 4 nights in Paris, 3 nights in the mountains, 3 nights in Provence and back to Paris for the end of the trip. So, a couple of questions for you amazingly wise travelers--first, does that timeline seem doable? And any thoughts on our destinations? Would love to hear arguments for or against. Places to stay in any of those destinations (or others you recommend instead)? A bit more about us: My family likes to be busy and can stay on the go for a while, but an afternoon rest is definitely a delightful thing on vacation, too. We would prefer train travel to car, and hotel to bed and breakfast unless it's exceptional. But our budget is likely not exceptional enough for that, ha! We are staying in a Novotel in Paris, if that gives any indication of what is comfortable for us. DH and I have been to Europe a handful of times each (but never to France outside of Paris). This is the girls' first trip to Europe. But they've done long flights and are good travelers.

I would love any and all tips, tricks, feedback you have for me as I really dive in to plan this! Thanks in advance!!

Figure a day of travel between your bases so your '3 nights in mountains' is really about 2. Middle of June is still a tad before the busiest season in say Provence- I'd consider just doing two bases - like in Avignon area just 3 hours from Paris by train. There is so much to see and do there and you do not need a car though it would be easier if you did. The Loire is but an hour by train from Paris and once there minibus tours take you to the most popular chateaux or you can use trains or buses to visit them too.

Chamonix is a great place for the Alps - lots of easy day trips by thrilling cables and trains to glaciers, etc.

Anyway for lots on trains and booking own tickets in advance at a discount if early enough check www.oui.sncf - www.seat61.com has great info on booking your own tickets online - general info - BETS-European Rail Experts - great info where to go by train in France; www.ricksteves.com.

You have 12 nights available. If you have booked 4 nights for Paris at the beginning or your trip, that leaves 8 nights for "elsewhere". If you fly in & out of Paris - the last night needs to be in Paris, unless you depart in the early afternoon or later. So that's 7 nights. If you choose 3 destinations, you have perhaps 3 nights/2 1/2 days in one place, 2 nights/1 1/2 days in a second place, and same in a third place. My wife & I vacation for 2 months in France most years, and IMO none of the places you mention can be visited with an afternoon "rest" in 2 1/2 or 1 1/2 days. Also, Versailles will consume an entire day, as will a day trip to either the Loire or Colmar. So out of your 4 nights/3 1/2 days in Paris - you only have 1/2 of a day to visit anything in Paris.

>>first, does that timeline seem doable?<<

No. Forget the Loire and Colmar. You'll get your "chateaux fix" at Versailles. We visited Versailles twice last year in very late Sept & early Oct - and it was mobbed. If you plan wrong, you could wait in line to get in for 2 hrs. Take a private King's apartment tour to avoid lines. And Colmar is another city - but why take an entire day to visit a city when you are already in Paris.

Reduce your destinations outside of Paris to 1 or 2. Not 3 or more.

>>And any thoughts on our destinations?<<

You need destinations that are quick to get to. IMO, you might also want some pretty/quiet countryside after Paris. With some small & cute hill villages to explore, perhaps lavender fields to wander through, some canyons & rivers. And these places will need a car to save time and get you there.

Provence would be a good additional destination to Paris. Along with the Dordogne, it is our favorite region in France (we've spent about 4 years "on the ground" in France). There are countless hill villages to explore, a canyon, lavender should be in bloom in June, along with world class wines (Cote du Rhone), and different terrains - rolling hills in the Luberon, mountains just north of the Luberon, more arid terrain close to Les Baux/St Remy. Lots of Roman Ruins too.

The TGV will get you from Paris to the Avignon TGV station & back in less than 3 hrs each way. Rent a car & set out. Restful afternonns in Provence are wonderful.

Stu Dudley

Welcome back Stu!

Hi,
Have a wonderful trip to France with your children!
Like Stu says you have too many destinations, like being in a candy shop and not knowing which one to pick :) With 4 nights in Paris, skip Colmar, do Versailles only if you have a strong interest in French history -I do, so I love the place.
Maybe you will find some interest in my trip report with my children, but they are younger than yours. The trip report is on Paris and Annecy, but my favorite area outside of Paris is actually La Dordogne area (We stayed in Sarlat-La-Cadena) on a other trip.

https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...-kids-1654689/

>>The French Alps (Chamonix, Annecy, maybe?<<

If you happen to visit the Chamonix area and get bad weather - your visit might not be much fun. Also, "Old" Annecy is smaller than you might think. We rented a gite for 2 weeks in Tailloires about 10 years ago and visited Annecy quite a bit for their farmer's market, dinners, wander around, etc. We have visited Annecy for several 1-3 nighters too. The Alps around Annecy are breathtaking - but you will need a car to explore them. If you don't have a car, IMO Annecy itself is only a 1-2 hr visit - plus any "shopping time" you might want to spend. Plus a lake cruise (we didn't do that).

Here is something I posted a few years ago about the weather we experience in Chamonix when we stayed in a gite there for 1 week a few years ago. Friends rented the same gite a few years later, and experience worse weather than we did.

Mt Blanc area weather

Several times each year, people on Fodors plan short trips to visit the Mt Blanc area, and inquire about the "normal" weather in the region, and whether they will be able to see & enjoy Mt Blanc - or will it be covered in clouds. The responses (guesses, usually) are normally vague.



We just returned from a week's stay in a Gite close to Mt Blanc, on a hillside in the village of Domancy - within the Sallanches Basin. Domancy is about a 25 min drive west of Chamonix. We've stayed in 65 gites in different regions in France, and this one was perhaps the best gite we've stayed in so far. Probably the most comfortable and certainly the best views. The Gite had floor-to-ceiling windows on three sides with spectacular views of the Sallanches Basin and a "postcard" view of Mt Blanc - when it wasn't covered in clouds. On Thursday this week (July 21) a stage of the Tour de France goes through Domancy on a time-trial leg of the race. The TdF will be in the region on July 22 & 23 also.



https://www.gites-de-france.com/loca...74G103018.html



This trip was our fourth visit to the Alps, for a total of 5 1/2 weeks. It's our observation from prior trips that the weather is normally less cloudy in the morning than in the evening.



Here is what we experienced:



Saturday July 9 - we arrived around 4PM and Mt Blanc was visible - with a few clouds covering the face. We checked the weather forecast on the internet, and it was expected to be mostly sunny on Sunday, partly cloudy on Monday - with a thunderstorm in the evening. Tuesday through Thursday were to be mostly cloudy with rain & thunderstorms. We decided it might be best to take some "lifts" in the area on Sunday & Monday - before the rains started.



Sunday July 10. We left our Gite early and took the 8:40 departure on the Tramway to Mont Blanc from the St Gervais station (10 mins from our gite). This is a normal mountain train that goes to the Nid d'Aigle. We had good views of Mt Blanc with just a few clouds. The entire trip (with a 1 hr "look-around" at Nid d'Aigle) took 3 hours. When we returned to our gite around 1:30PM, Mt Blanc was perfectly clear with no clouds at all. We took lots if pictures from the gite.



About 4PM we took the Mont d'Arbois cable car from St Gervais up to Mt Arbois. Mt Blanc was completely covered in clouds as were most of the high peaks around the Sallanches basin.



The temperatures were in the low 90s F in Domancy today. We dined outside on our deck at the gite - admiring what we could see of Mt Blanc (very little).



Monday July 10. The weather looked pretty good - so we left our Gite at 8:15am and were on the Le Brevent lift in Chamonix at 8:45. The weather was excellent - good visibility, but a few clouds "running by" to make the pictures more dramatic. We had a hot chocolate at the cafe on top, and then lasagne and wine for lunch at 11:30. We spent around 2 1/2 hrs wandering around Le Brevent. By the time we departed, Mt Blanc and the other peaks in the area were almost 100% hidden behind clouds.



This night we had dinner in Chamonix and Mt Blanc was mostly hidden in clouds. As we returned home from dinner - it was raining heavily.



Tuesday July 12. Rain all day. We rarely saw Mt Blanc. By 6PM, there were many low clouds and we could not see Mt Blanc at all, nor any of the peaks in the Sallanches basin around us.



Wednesday July 13. Very low clouds & fog. We could not see Mt Blanc, the other peaks, and even St Gervais. Rain started around 3PM, and it was 55 F for a high in Domancy.



Thursday July 14. Extremely foggy with low clouds in the AM - lower than yesterday. You would not even know that you were in the Alps. Very poor visibility. Rain at 1PM. Low fog lifted a little - but we never saw Mt Blanc. High temps in Chamonix today was 44F. Tomorrow's forecast is to be somewhat better.



Friday July 15. Weather looked OK, so we got an early start and drove through Chamonix (temp 41F) to Argentiere and took the Aiguille des Grands Montets lift. It had snowed sometime in the past 2-3 days and the temperature at the top of the lift was minus 8C, and there was 13CM of fresh show. We were cold - but the views were spectacular. Mt Blanc was mostly clear with a few clouds for dramatic effect. We spent around 2 1/2 hrs engaged with this lift - having lunch at the mid-level stop - where it was somewhat warmer.



Starting around noon - Mt Blanc was in & out of clouds. When we got back to our gite in the early afternoon - Mt Blanc was entirely hidden in clouds.



Saturday July 16. Mt Blanc weather was perfect - the morning we departed (naturally). The weather forecast for the following week called for perfect sunny weather - and warmer. For the upcoming Tour de France.



In summary, we were there for around 6 1/2 days and had three half-days where we could see & enjoy Mt Blanc and four days which we could not.



Stu Dudley

The small train that goes up and down the Chamonix valley is free for lodgers in the valley. One can presumably visit the valley without a car, and take various cable cars up the mountains. We had a car, so we drove and were not dependent on public transportation schedules.

If your arrival in CDG is in the morning, unless you had a compelling reason to stay in Paris on arrival, you have probably thrown away one night, about 8% of your time in France outright before doing anything. Just do a simple time math. If you traveled straight to the first destination away from Paris, then you could have totally eliminated these items: one trip into Paris, one check-in with move in overhead, one check-out with move out overhead, one trip from your Paris hotel to a train station. It would be hard to make good use of one last night in Paris as you are currently thinking.

Many people automatically assume it would be tiring to travel on arrival. I feel the other way. If I arrive early in the morning, I cannot check in. I can leave luggage at hotel front and walk around or sit at hotel lobby or at café. Neither is suited for taking a nap if needed. Train seats are very comfortable. If one of you can stay awake to watch your belongings, all others can take a nap all the while making a progress towards a destination at near 200 mph. This leverages a resting time into travel time you have to carve out later anyway.

Unless you had to fly into and out of CDG because it was an award trip or something like that, it would have been prudent to look at flying into another airport and coming home from CDG and look at the TOTAL trip cost and what you could have done with each scenario.

For example, if you wanted to go Chamonix, you could have looked into flying into Genève instead. If you wanted to go to Aix-en-Provence, you could have flown into Marseille and take a frequent bus into Aix https://www.marseille-airport.com/ac...ix-en-provence . I fly often into Nice and come home from Paris. This eliminates almost a full day trip from Paris to Nice and then back to Paris.

Me, too! Well argued, greg -- you lay out the issues very nicely. :tu: