Pvoyageuse

Yes. The same people who screamed when Sarkozy "deported" them now applaud to their "repatriation". Funny how people have a selective memory.

analogue

Pvoyageuse there seems to be a misunderstanding. Dismantling a shanty town has nothing to do with expelling people from the country. It is true that Hollande has shown less tolerance for people living in these disgraceful conditions. That is a good thing, isn't it? But I know that Amnesty Intl doesn't like it.

I am surprised that only 424 have been asked to leave the country (if that is true). In 2009 10,000 were deported and in 2010 another 9,000.

Pvoyageuse

There is no misunderstanding. Those expelled committed a crime. Those living in shanty towns are sent back to their country (10,000 since April 2012). It is exactly the same thing as under Sarkozy.
http://www.francetvinfo.fr/france/ca...zy_127711.html

kerouac

So now you are saying 10,000 instead of 424? Are you becoming hysterical about this? I hope not.

It is not a crime to live in shanty towns, just as it is not a crime to sleep in the metro or out on the street -- I see plenty of that, much to my displeasure.

Michael

<i>It is not a crime to live in shanty towns, just as it is not a crime to sleep in the metro or out on the street</i>

Glad to hear that Anatole France could no longer write this:

"La loi, dans toute sa majesté, interdit aussi bien aux riches qu'aux pauvres de dormir sous les ponts de Paris"

PalenQ

I think I Googled the wrong NYTimes article but really was one from this August as it comports with Pvoyageuse's 10,000 this year - which is what I thought the article said. I'll have to look for it.

kerouac

10,000 people have been evicted from shanty towns, that is certain. That does not at all mean that they left the country.

PalenQ

Well yesterday's event of snatching a school girl off a bus from a class trip has shown that the Sarkozy type actions are continuing - NYTimes says today the minister in charge has continued Sarkozy's tough actions.

Thousands protesting today in Paris.

Even Socialist party officials are decrying the action that many say violated Human Rights - no wonder Hollande's ratings have tanked to record or near-record lows.

Pvoyageuse

PalenQ : the story is not as simple. The father might be from Kosovo but his wife and 6 children were born in Italy. They do not speak Albanese. He lied to the French authorities to obtain the status of refugee after having destroyed the family's Italian ID documents. He has been questioned several times by the police for allegedly beating his daughters and stealing.

PalenQ

Then why are thousands of French folks protesting, according to NPR?

I don't understand if he is Italian does not he have a right to stay in France under EU law? I really don't know so am asking. Deporting an Italian kids to some third-world country they have never been to?

Does not sound humane to me - now if father abused his children let Child Protection agencies put them in foster care but to just deport such at risk children to someplace I think they have never been?

why are there being calls for the Minister involved in this and other such incidents under pressure to resign, even from many in the Socialist Party - no when I heard this I thought that this cannot be happening in France - maybe Switzerland but not France.

kerouac

The authorities did not know that the family had never been to Kosovo when they were deported there -- it is the father's fault. However, even other EU citizens must show that they have means of support to stay in another EU country. This will cause an administrative problem if only the mother and the children are allowed to return to France, since the mother doesn't work.

And the reason that there is such an uproar is because the event is exceptional. If things like this were happening regularly, there would have been no outcry from the populaton.

Anyway, while I have a lot of thoughts about this case, I think it is best to wait for the results of the investigation and the final decision before I start to rant about Manuel Valls, who was an immigrant himself.

Pvoyageuse

"I don't understand if he is Italian does not he have a right to stay in France under EU law?"
A EU citizen who moves to another country is not a refugee and is not entitled to a refugee's social benefits. The family has been living 5 years in France on the dole. The father never held a job during all that time or even looked for one.

"why are there being calls for the Minister involved in this"
The Minister is the most popular member of the government. He is a Socialist and oh surprise, he is well-lliked by the right. That's enough to make him dangerous for the left who accuses him of leading a rightist policy.
School kids will stop protesting as soon as the fall holidays begin, which is today.
Contrary to Kerouac, I do not think it is an exceptional event. The media have made it so. It is what people call "emotional dictatorship". Deportations take place everyday and nobody bats an eye.

annhig

A EU citizen who moves to another country is not a refugee and is not entitled to a refugee's social benefits. The family has been living 5 years in France on the dole. The father never held a job during all that time or even looked for one>>

the rules about the free movement of "workers" around the EU are much too complicated for the vast majority of us to understand, and i think vary from country to country. In the UK i believe that you have to have actually worked here for a period of time to prove residence before you are entitled to claim social security benefits. There has been some hysteria whipped up by the government recently about "benefit tourism" [in order to pander to those who might otherwise vote for the anti-immigration party, UKIP] but the best independent figures seem to demonstrate that EU workers claim fewer benefits than their UK counterparts.

PalenQ

all very interesting from a third-party point of view and I admit to not knowing the ins-and-outs of the policy, this case, etc. Appearances are often worse than what really happens.

kerouac

Anyway, President Hollande appeared on television during the 1 p.m. news and announced that the girl and <b>only</b> the girl could return to France if she wanted to continue her studies, because she should never have been taken from her school group. The rest of the family was deported according to the law, all legal recourse having been exhausted over the months.

Now it remains to see what the protesting high school students across France will do. Even though they are on holiday, this particular school holiday is the one during which the fewest number of people go anywhere, so most of them will be around to make trouble if that's what they decide to do.

kerouac

Looking at some of the news sites, it appears that the president only fanned the flames of controversy, and there is already a YouTube video of the girl telling reporters that of course she chooses her family over a heartbreaking separation.

This is likely to continue for awhile.

PalenQ

Interesting development in Kosovo I read in today's NYTimes that the mother was assaulted on the street by a man who asked her about a child she may have had by him in a previous relationship - does not make her look any better.

kerouac

The whole family appears to be horrible. The people who assaulted the family were members of their own family. French public opinion is beginning to realize this, so there hardly any support now for bringing the family back -- they completely abused the system, trashed their apartment, defrauded anyone they could, the father refused to work because he preferred to receive free money, and even the girl in high school was a notorious truant.

So obviously this causes much confusion among the people who really want to help hardworking albeit illegal families who are trying so hard to fit in.