France budget help
 

Hi
I am a single mom with two boys I adopted . I prefer to take an interesting cultural summer vacation rather than putting them in these very generic expensive summer camps.
I am however on a very tight budget.
This summer we are going to France for 4 weeks. I have already planned flight and gites.
We will drive from Paris to Sarlat where we will spend a week sightseeing
Dordgone region and then drive to Provance where we will spend 3 weeks at three different gites. Travel along the coast. Maybe to Italian riviaria -
I have already paid for flights and gites but I am stuck on what I will need for gas -tolls -food -sightseeing. As I mentioned I am on a tight budget and I prefer to grab a delicious pastry from a local bakery and get out and see as much as possible . As much as I would love to
Eat my way through France I don't see it as a possibility.
Any thoughts on budget ??
Many thanks for any and all input

Tolls on the French autoroutes are very expensive. You can take alternative routes unless you are in a hurry and save a good bit that way.

Use www.viamichelin.com and click on the "avoid tolls" option.

In route options you can pick "economical route"

Mark

When dining, go for the menu of the day (fixed price menu)! It will save you a bundle.

I guess I am wondering how much money would you bring for food for a month knowing we will stay
In a gite and can cook breakfast and have picnic lunches

Don't drive to the Dordogne from Paris. It's dull and expensive and if a sunny day you'll be blinded by the sun in your eyes the whole way. Train tickets are cheap if you buy them 3 months out from your dates of travel (which may be right now!). You want to use www.capitainetrain.com and look for PREM fares (they are nonexchangeable and nonreefundable, so make sure you get on those trains) - they can be a HUGE savings over driving, with the attendant high costs of fuel and tolls.

Get the train from Paris to Brive-la-Gaillarde and pick up a rental car there. Use AutoEurope/Kemwel for the best car rental rates and service.

<< I guess I am wondering how much money would you bring for food for a month >>

Don't bring any money. Use ATM machines to get cash. Exchanging money will give you a very bad rate and cost you a lot more.

Plan on spending about 25% more than you would at home. This is based partly on the exchange rate and partly on having to buy things you would normally have on hand at home - paper/plastic products, condiments, laundry detergent, etc. At home you can watch for sales and stock up and save money.

Soft drinks are probably more money and chips and things like that come in small bags so will cost more. All those "delicious pastries" will certainly add up. Learn to like bread as it's cheap. You'll have to dump the perishables when you move.

I once drove the length of France from Paris to Provence and vowed never to do it again. Long and boring.

Thanks for the info
I was considering taking the train and picking up a car but my plane gets in on a Saturday into Paris around 1pm then if I take a train By the time I get to Brive la G the car rentl place closes and then they are not open on a Sunday that was my one flaw in choosing my air tickets - hence the driving ...

Absolutely DO NOT get off a plane at 1 pm in Paris and drive to the Dordogne, or much of anyplace else. Go into Paris, spend the night in a cheap hotel, and take the train to Brive the next morning. Spend the Sunday night in Brive if you must (you can get a car rental outfit to meet you on a Sunday and open the rental office for you for about 25-30 euros if necessary).

Honestly, what are you thinking?

Actually I wasn't really reviewing my itinerary I was asking some budget info
Food tolls gas etc - and any thoughts on how much those things would be

Yes, but the thing is, your itinerary is costing you FAR more than it needs to. You can figure out tolls and gas on www.viamichelin.com. It's way more expensive to drive - and way more taxing and time-consuming and boring, than taking the train. Sorry, thought I was helping. Apparently not.

I'm sorry I tried to be overly helpful. I'm asking the editors to remove my post.

If you really don't want help on something then you should not have written anything about driving from Paris to Sarlat. You could have only asked how to determine tolls and fuel. You did ask about budget and StCirq was answering that question by responding about cars and trains.

I appreciate the thought but when I looked into it
The train from Paris to Brive was 130 euros for three
Then I already have a gite paid for so I am paying for a night in a hotel
And also Brive has no automatic cars also I got a great rate of 600 euro for a
Car for a month - I will need a car travellling about anyway in the south
but if I add in the trains my budget goes up
And it's all about the budget at this point
Does any of this make sense ? I do appreciate the help

I understand about budgets as I travel with limited funds. I do think you should have a backup plan as the road to Sarlat is long and it will be dark when you arrive. Half of the driving time is off motorway. Hopefully the peripherique will not be crowded on a Saturday afternoon.

130 euros for 3 isn't a bad rate, but I doubt you got the best fares because you don't know how to use the SNCF or Capitainetrain websites. And it's still probably less to take the train than driving. NOBODY can guarantee you an automatic, as they are fairly rare in France, so don't count on that and practice your manual driving. Doesn't matter what they tell you in an email or over the phone - It will depend on what's there in their lot the day you arrive.

You're insisting on getting a budget vacation but shooting yourself in the foot by ignoring the advice here. Bye.

Thank you that is helpful info ... I was considering breaking up the trip maybe stop in saint Benoit du salut for the night ...
So drive 3 hrs after I land then do the rest Sunday ... That may be more reasonable ...
Do you have another stop idea ???

StCirq makes a very good point about the automatic car. Since you're arriving late, it is possible that there are none available. I've seen lots of posters on this board complain about this. Do you drive a manual transmission car? If not, do you have a backup plan in case you cannot get an automatic?

Sorry but I can't help with a stop 3 hours south of Roissy (assuming you're landing at CDG airport). It will be some place between Orleans and Bourges.

Interesting. Folks trying to help who are VERY knowledgeable and aren't agreeing, so not helping.
How much money for food? We don't know the ages of the children.
Gas--very expensive so the more/longer you drive the more expensive (as from Paris to Sarlat instead of the train).
Tolls--take the back roads and save--otherwise, expensive from Paris to Sarlat.
Food--budget for yourself--for 3, budget 75E/day and live within it? Less. Shop the supermarches.
sighteeing--some will be gas, some will be entries. Look them up in a guide book since you are maybe the only one knowing where you are planning to go?
And I'm not sure how many times I have seen St. Cirq mention how boring the drive from Paris south is--both to Dordogne and Provence.
And so you "sacrifice" a paid for night at a gite for a better travel experience?
Out of curiosity, are you spending any time in Paris--or bypassing it because you think it will be too expensive.
Have you travelled in Europe previously--American? English?

I understand that you've already paid a bundle for the car, so you might as well use it. But allow for being pretty tired that first day. It’ll be around 3:00 when you get out of the airport with your car. Maybe stop an hour or so from the airport that first night, check into a motel, go out and buy food for dinner and maybe snacks for the car trip the next day. Eat outdoors if you can, and go to bed early.

Research the motel and supermarket now, while you're at home and have your internet connection. Leclerc is one of the big supermarket chains. On their website you can look up store locations, as well as get an idea of some of the food prices. Whatever supermarket you choose, check their hours carefully. If they close at 6, you might need to go there before you get to the motel. They will probably close at noon or one on Sunday.

Hopefully the next morning you wake up rested and get an early start. Drive a few hours and then take a break at another supermarket. This time you'll be shopping for food and supplies for the next few days. It's Sunday, and even the big supermarkets closest to your destination will be closed by noon or 1:00. Many places are closed on Monday as well.

The Zagaz website will show you the price of gas in euros (and in liters). Google the euro-dollar cost just before you go so you'll have an idea of what each euro will be costing you.

If you like Google maps, try a few different versions of the route from CDG to your first gite. There are alternatives to the autoroute, which is expensive and boring. On the other hand, you and the kids may not have much tolerance for a meandering drive, no matter how pretty the scenery.

I also like the Viamichelin website, which will tell you the cost of tolls and gas for whatever route you choose and show you places of interest on the way.

No matter what route you take, give yourself and the kids frequent breaks. Most of France is enjoyable, so you don't have to rush to your gite to be having a good time.

thank you Gretchen and Coquelicot I really appreciate the constructive comments.
to me no matter how boring a drive is ... YOUR IN FRANCE IS MY THINKING!
I am personally a seasoned traveller ( less confident to travel with my boys at this age to go to difficult countries) I have been to Paris about 8 times and have taken my boys there on our last trip to france so I don't feel we need to repeat. On out last journey they changed our flight and we flew into London so we look the train to paris and then I immediately drove to Loire valley. That completely wreaked me as you can imagine ... we spent 8 days driving in Loire then we went back to paris and dumped the car for another 9 days.
This trip is very different than I have done because it is more driving ... it is much longer almost 5 weeks and a different region I have never been and I am on a tighter budget.
Ideally I would like to drive thru to Sarlat mostly for budget reasons. I have already paid for our gite which starts on the saturday we land .... that was my one big error in my planning ...but I dont think I can make it - so I am researching some stops along the way but didint know whether to wing it or plan it ? my boys are almost 7 and10. so not giant eaters but didnt know how much money to bring for food. At home I am a master picnic packer but i honestly cant remember what my budget was on my last trip I did the Viamichelin website for tolls and gas becasue I remember on my last trip how shocked I was about the tolls and how expensive but I wasnt sure that site is accurate. And it does not really take into account when yoiu spend the day driving around from town to town so I coiuld only figure from one main destination to the next so I didnt know how much to allow for travelling about the South. Also since I have not been down to South of France where most of our trip will be ...Do you think I will take trains to some cities or is the car a preferable way to go- I am only driving on one direction because my plane leaves out of Marseille. Thank you for your kindness

What day do you arrive? According to SNCF you can travel on June 14, leaving Paris Austerlitz for Brive-la-Gaillarde at 17:53, for 86 euro for the three of you, but you'd need to book soon. However, that train doesn't run June 7th and I gather you would miss the 12:28 which in any case is much more expensive. But the car rental place may be closed by the time you arrive in Brive.

If you have a strict budget for this trip, divide the amount by the number of days and keep track. You will obviously spend more on some days, as you will need to drive to, and stock, the gite, but you can split that across several days.

I arrive on july 5th a saturday and my flight get in a 1pm CDG
and what i see by the time I get to Brive the car rental is closed till monday :-(
do you think 500 dollars for gas and tolls is too little for a month of travel ?

For the car you might also look into a lease versus a rental since you are staying 4+ weeks. We use them every year and it is much more cost effective than a rental and a much nicer program since you have much more control of the kind of car you are going to get. So that way you can choose and automatic transmission and diesel which will also save you money. And you can pick it us and drop it off almost everywhere in France.

This is our preferred service: http://autofrance.net/rates-reservations/

You can calculate the price on their site. And their rate includes full insurance and you are driving a brand new car from the factory.

Once option might also be be to catch a train directly from CDG to the Bordeaux train station. Then you could try to rest a bit on the train and then pick up the car from there and continue down to Sarlat.

Also I meant to mention that my husband and I spend a lot of time in an area similar to the Dordogne pricewise in France and for the 2 of us we count around 30 euros per day when I am cooking mostly full time-with maybe an occasional ice cream or crepe/ I am guessing that might be an amount for the 3 of you that you could use to guesstimate food costs.

Hope you have a great trip-you picked a lovely area for kids your age-there is lot to do! As a matter of fact,from a budget standpoint you may also want to hop on some of the sightseeing websites so that you can check out entrance fees since those can add to the holiday cost quickly. When we were in the region with friends who had kids your ages they especially enjoyed visiting the castle where Josephine Baker lived because they have an interesting falconry show at the end of the tour. They also enjoyed the boat ride on the river. Here is one example of prices for a 55 minute trip:

http://www.gabarres.com/us/prices-boat-trip1.html

jpie thank you that makes sense 30 euros as day that is what we do cook most with and ice cream /crepe treats many thanks for that budget advice

The other two idea you gave are great
I googled josephine baker and it looks amazing and my older son is abird watcher so he will be
particularly excited the boat looks great - many thanks

My wife & I have rented 55 gites in France. I don't think any gite owner will want to wait up for you past 10pm on Sat.

I would take the TGV from CDG to Bordeaux. One leaves at 4:21 PM and arrives at 8:37 pm. PREM fares are 34E per person if the same rate is available on July 5. The car rental offices are open on Sunday and they have automatics available. I would either pick up a car on Sat and drive to St Emilion for the first night - or just stay in Bordeaux & pick up the car on Sunday & drive to the Dordogne.

We purchase many, many, many roast chickens at the grocery or Farmer's market and have them for dinner with a sauce of 1 1/2 cups of creme fraiche, 2 T of mustard ancienne, and a grating of hard cheese. Feeds 3 nicely.

Stu Dudley

There can be quite a difference in petrol prices - with motorways the most expensive, and petrol stations at supermarkets (Casino, Carrefour..) the cheapest.
If you stay off the motorway you will save tolls, get cheaper petrol and cheaper snacks/food along the way - but may make more kilometres.
I think the costs given on Via Michelin are good, but it will depend on the mileage on your car, obviously, and the type of petrol you need.

I also think that driving that distance after getting off a transatlantic flight is not advisable. Find a Formula 1 or Ibis about an hour or so from the airport - these can be really cheap. Then you can be on your way the next day.

Automatic transmissions
We've reserved around 7 automatics in the last 4 years. Every time we arrived at the rental office, one was available. Even in "podunk" offices like the Lourdes airport and a downtown office in Geneva. It seems that there are more automatics available now than there were 10 years ago. We are starting our fall trip in Poitiers this year - but they did not have any automatics available that could be reserved.

I assume you already know that automatics are more expensive, and that if your CC issuer allows it - use their CDW insurance, and don't get any from the car rental company.

Make sure you reserve a diesel, which gets better mileage and costs less per liter.

NO WAY should you drive on either autoroutes or minor roads from CDG to the Dordogne on Sat arrival day. It's a 6 1/2 hr drive if you take autoroutes/tolls and 8 1/2 if you don't. We never drive more than 1 1/2 to 2 hrs on arrival day. I'm assuming your boys won't be allowed to drive.

Produce at farmer's markets is dirt cheap - so have lots of salads. Baguettes are cheap too - so there's your breakfast. Learn how to prepare Moules/mussels - which are also cheap & plentiful. Lots of pizza places in France and at farmer's markets. Try paella at farmer's markets - another cost-saver.

Stu Dudley

StuDudley There you are.... you are an invaluable resource on Fodors ... you helped me with my trip initially ....
Your suggestion with the train to Bordeaux.. my issue is that I already booked my car from CDG a LONG time ago and the price I received is now such a good price for the car for the month I just looked and it is almost twice the price if I change my booking to Bordeaux plus the train fair... so I believe the most cost effective thing for me to do is drive from CDG.. your suggestion of not driving more that 2 hours on travel day is wise ... I was wondering if you know a village on the way. I would like to stay at least in a picturesque small town if possible on route to Sarlat ?
Any thoughts ????? I am going to check into diesel good idea .. how much actual money should I allow for a month of driving ??? many thanks again !!

I didn't think you literally meant you were bringing cash with you, but wanted to know how much money to plan for your budget? For food from grocery stores, I find prices in France to be fairly similar to the US, actually (when the euro is converted to dollars). Some things are a little more, some less. It seems fruits and vegetables are about the same, I think, and coffee. Bread and wine are cheap. I haven't bought a lot of meat and stuff like that in groceries so don't have a good feel for that. Cheese isn't cheap, of course, but it isn't in the US, either.

here's a list of Paris grocery store prices from a couple years ago, it seems about right to me
http://www.parisescapes.com/paris_groceries_cost.html

I would stay in Blois the first night. It's about 2 1/2 hrs from CDG. Of course, this is chateau country. Nice town, also. Visit the chateau of Blois on Sat, then Chambord on Sunday. From Chambord, it's a 4 3/4 hr drive to Sarlat on a Sunday with much less truck traffic and construction along the un-scenic autoroute.

We don't pay attention to fuel costs - so I can't give you an opinion on that - except what someone else advised about getting it at a Super/Hyper Marche (which are not usually open on Sundays or during lunch).

Stu Dudley

I just re-read your post and discovered that you have already visited the Loire. Here are two other options:

1. Drive 3 hrs to Bourges and stay there on Sat night. We've visited Bourges, and it's quite interesting with a wonderful church & garden Then it is 4 1/4 hrs to Sarlat the next day.

2. Last year we were going to fly from CDG to Bordeaux and then stay in a B&B in the Gers for a few days. Several days before we left home, we read about a France air traffic controller strike, and I had to make alternate plans for getting to the B&B from CDG. I decided to drive there, but stop somewhere about 2-3 hrs from CDG the first night. I choose the town of Vierzon - which sounded somewhat interesting, as it was described in the Michelin Green Guide for the Dordogne. We caught one of the 2 flights to Bordeaux (out of 5) that was not cancelled - so we made it to Bordeaux OK. Vierzon might work for you. It is directly on the autoroute to Sarlat and 2 1/2 hrs from CDG. There is a Contenital Hotel listed in the Michelin Red Guide with very reasonably priced rooms for families of 3,4,5. www.hotelcontinental18.com . There is also a "Bib Gourmand" restaurant in town with menus starting at 24E (in the '12 Mich guide).

Stu Dudley

Hi...

I can tell you from personal experience -- a long time ago, but still in my memory -- that it is a BIG mistake to drive much at all after a long and somewhat sleepless night of air travel.

If you insist, then be sure you have good collision insurance. In my case I ran into a concrete road sign about 1 hour outside of Paris. No one was hurt at all, but the car was in the shop about three days. :-)

SS

I am going to check into diesel good idea .. how much actual money should I allow for a month of driving ??? many thanks again !!

Total up you mileage, divide by your car's MPG estimate and multiply by the cost of gas--remembering it is sold in liters, not gallons.