France - Best Quality of Life!
Mar 7th, 2006, 08:41 AM
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France - Best Quality of Life!
International Living Magazine lists France as having the world's best quality of life - based on several criteria. Switzerland and Austria follow and the US, which had topped the list for the previous 21 years, sunk to 7th.
Criteria include: climate, environment, economic stability, healthcare, cost of living, safety, culture, leisure time and freedom. Iraq was the lowest ranked country.
The French healthcare, according to a WHO study is called the world's finest - not bad for practically universal coverage. France also gained points from culture - stemming from the 77 million tourists it attracts annually, supposedly making it the world's number tourist destination.
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Criteria include: climate, environment, economic stability, healthcare, cost of living, safety, culture, leisure time and freedom. Iraq was the lowest ranked country.
The French healthcare, according to a WHO study is called the world's finest - not bad for practically universal coverage. France also gained points from culture - stemming from the 77 million tourists it attracts annually, supposedly making it the world's number tourist destination.
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Mar 7th, 2006, 08:56 AM
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I'll bet International Living didn't really measure very city in the world. I am sure Iraq is one of the worst, but I am sure there are other cities (in Africa, for example), that are pretty good rivals.
I don't understand the comment about gaining cultural points because they have so many tourists. Perhaps tourists go there because of cultural offerings, in part, but I don't think having a lot of tourists is itself so great culturally.
I don't understand the comment about gaining cultural points because they have so many tourists. Perhaps tourists go there because of cultural offerings, in part, but I don't think having a lot of tourists is itself so great culturally.
Mar 7th, 2006, 11:15 AM
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Obviously these things are a bunch of baloney - i just think it's interesting but not buying it all. the French also i believe have one of the developed world's highest rate of taking depression medicine and smoking and drinking - lycee kids have the highest rate of cannabis use in Europe according to Eurostat stats i've seen - even higher than in Holland where cannabis is defactoly legal. that France is the world's leading tourist country, allegedly, is more a testimony perhaps to the wonderful countryside and old towns of Provence and southern France in general, which, along with Paris, attracts the hoardes of tourists. That the US doesn't rank 100% in freedom anymore should come as no surprise to anyone really familiar with the Patriot Act and Guantanamo Bay, albeit not on US territory technically. Every country has its pecadilloes and pluses so i take these ranking with a grain of salt and big glass of Burgundy wine.
Mar 7th, 2006, 11:17 AM
#8
Even though I personally feel that France has the best lifestyle in the world (which is why I live here), I think that absolutely everybody has different criteria and that such surveys are meaningless. Sunny countries, for example, generally put the weather forward as the most important criterium while desolate northern countries will insist that unspoiled nature is primordial.
In terms of health care, I will certainly agree with the WHO, however. Upon my father's death, I had to bring my mother back to France. She has moderate Alzheimer's and a number of other health problems. Within three months, I got all of the minor problems treated totally free of charge (due to CMU -- universal health coverage -- for which she qualified because she had no French revenue). And now she is on normal health coverage, for which we have to pay a small amount (but nothing for Alzheimer's or high blood pressure, which qualify for 100% coverage for anybody), but only because I have also qualified her for a French pension, after uncovering that she had worked in France as a student for a year.... in 1943.
In terms of health care, I will certainly agree with the WHO, however. Upon my father's death, I had to bring my mother back to France. She has moderate Alzheimer's and a number of other health problems. Within three months, I got all of the minor problems treated totally free of charge (due to CMU -- universal health coverage -- for which she qualified because she had no French revenue). And now she is on normal health coverage, for which we have to pay a small amount (but nothing for Alzheimer's or high blood pressure, which qualify for 100% coverage for anybody), but only because I have also qualified her for a French pension, after uncovering that she had worked in France as a student for a year.... in 1943.
Mar 7th, 2006, 11:25 AM
#10
Regarding PalQ's statement, I would have to admit that the French take more medicine than any other country in the world, but mostly because it is so affordable. It is too easily prescribed.
It is not true that France has a high smoking rate. Alcohol consumption is high, but it is very spread out through the population, so the alcoholism rate is low.
As for cannabis, French high school kids are indeed leading the pack in Europe, because drug repression is very high in France, and forbidden fruit is as tasty as ever. Cannabis use nearly disappears after the teen years.
It is not true that France has a high smoking rate. Alcohol consumption is high, but it is very spread out through the population, so the alcoholism rate is low.
As for cannabis, French high school kids are indeed leading the pack in Europe, because drug repression is very high in France, and forbidden fruit is as tasty as ever. Cannabis use nearly disappears after the teen years.
Mar 7th, 2006, 11:45 AM
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Kerouac - i've seen figures putting French puffers right near the top and the country's winking at no-smoking areas in restaurants, etc. lets smokers still ruling the roost. But let me say that i love France, it's my favorite country in European - i like French folk and indeed my son is half-French and grew up in France thru lycee - i've spent tons of time with him there and think highly of the country - i will say however that the enjoyment of life of French people may not seem as high as in some other countries, like Holland or Italy, but maybe the more you are familiar with a country the more the negatives stand out - i've just been an itinerant tourists in Italy or holland where folks seem to have more a joie de vivre than France and the French who often seem so lacking in joie de vivre - enough spewing garbage from my mind. Ca y'est!
Mar 7th, 2006, 11:50 AM
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Funny, I now live in an area popular with tourists AND I HATE THEM!!! Lousy drivers, rude, cheap, arrogant and a strain on the local economy. I'd just as soon live someplace where nobody visits. Maybe I'll move back to Pittsburgh.
Mar 7th, 2006, 12:09 PM
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These studies are meaningless because they assume that each country consists of a mass of homogeneous people with identical personal priorities and access to resources.
As someone with a well-paying job and excellent benefits, I have no doubt that my healthcare is superior to that which a person of similar means would obtain in France. For example, when I needed an MRI on my neck a few years ago, I was in the tube within less than a week from the referral and the only out-of-pocket expense was a $10 copay.
While I readily concede that I would rather live in Europe (or Canada) if I were chronically ill and habitually unemployed, I am neither and entirely satisfied with the quality of healthcare available to me.
On another note, France receives a large number of foreign visitors because it is very close to so many foreign countries. Western Europe is not that large of an area. A resident of Frankfurt or Brussels is a 90-minute train ride from Strasbourg and Paris, respectively. If France were 90 minutes away from where I live, I'd be spending a lot more time there.
As someone with a well-paying job and excellent benefits, I have no doubt that my healthcare is superior to that which a person of similar means would obtain in France. For example, when I needed an MRI on my neck a few years ago, I was in the tube within less than a week from the referral and the only out-of-pocket expense was a $10 copay.
While I readily concede that I would rather live in Europe (or Canada) if I were chronically ill and habitually unemployed, I am neither and entirely satisfied with the quality of healthcare available to me.
On another note, France receives a large number of foreign visitors because it is very close to so many foreign countries. Western Europe is not that large of an area. A resident of Frankfurt or Brussels is a 90-minute train ride from Strasbourg and Paris, respectively. If France were 90 minutes away from where I live, I'd be spending a lot more time there.
Mar 7th, 2006, 01:04 PM
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I'm with you, Zeus, I live in a city with a lot of tourists, and I don't like them at all. Sometimes I can't even go places I want at really peak tourist times, although that is rare. But I will avoid certain museums and the metro on some weekends and times in the summer when there are tons of tourists here. ON top of that, since I live in the US (Wash DC), there is this bad phenomenon that a lot of Americans want to drive everywhere and DC is fairly central -- so you get all these tourists who bring their car to DC and want to drive around the city during their vacation. It's terrible, they clog up the streets and take parking spots, can't drive, cause accidents or drive too slow, etc. I remember once I was driving home from work (and I have to go through a fairly common tourist area, and close to the White House), some tourist was weaving in and out and across all lanes of traffic, plus driving too slow. Well, I managed to get to a light when they were beside me and they lean out of their car and yell at me, what's that big building over there? (it was the Washington Monument, geez).
I work in public health and have had some projects in international health comparisons so am fairly familiar with WHO and their various reports. I like the organization, some conservatives do not (public health people tend to be slightly leftie) because they measure more than things conservatives want to measure. I think that is the proper way to measure a health care system as a whole -- for example, they consider a lot of things other than just how many doctors do you have, or hospitals, or are you technically modern. They measure access to health care for everyone, percent of population with insurance, percent of a person's income that must be spent out-of-pocket on health care, etc. So that's why the US doesn't rate so great, even though US healthcare is fine technically if you can pay for it or have good insurance.
Now I don't know what kerouac exactly means about France having a high rate of alcohol consumption but it is spread out so alcoholism is low. I've read WHO's reports on Global Alcohol/substance abuse issues, and France does rate fairly high in some problem areas (although I think has improved over the last 20 years). They do have a very high rate of alcohol consumption, one of the highest in the world, and certainly in Europe (I think only Ireland, Czech Republic, and Luxembourg are higher in Europe, Spain and Germany aren't too far behind, though). But, more important, they do rate rather high on various measures such as mortality rates due to cirrhosis, alcohol use disorders, and estimates of alcohol dependence.
They aren't the worst (Poland is pretty bad), and the US isn't really far behind them in terms of alcohol dependence by those measures, but France isn't really low on these scales I've seen. It is very hard to measure true rates of alcoholism because there isn't any way to really do it, but various surveys have tried using different diagnostic criteria, and some sampling (and you can measure some diseases that are highly correlated with alcohol abuase).
Anyway, the WHO's healthcare measure was a reflection of a lot of things -- quality, cost and accessibility.
I work in public health and have had some projects in international health comparisons so am fairly familiar with WHO and their various reports. I like the organization, some conservatives do not (public health people tend to be slightly leftie) because they measure more than things conservatives want to measure. I think that is the proper way to measure a health care system as a whole -- for example, they consider a lot of things other than just how many doctors do you have, or hospitals, or are you technically modern. They measure access to health care for everyone, percent of population with insurance, percent of a person's income that must be spent out-of-pocket on health care, etc. So that's why the US doesn't rate so great, even though US healthcare is fine technically if you can pay for it or have good insurance.
Now I don't know what kerouac exactly means about France having a high rate of alcohol consumption but it is spread out so alcoholism is low. I've read WHO's reports on Global Alcohol/substance abuse issues, and France does rate fairly high in some problem areas (although I think has improved over the last 20 years). They do have a very high rate of alcohol consumption, one of the highest in the world, and certainly in Europe (I think only Ireland, Czech Republic, and Luxembourg are higher in Europe, Spain and Germany aren't too far behind, though). But, more important, they do rate rather high on various measures such as mortality rates due to cirrhosis, alcohol use disorders, and estimates of alcohol dependence.
They aren't the worst (Poland is pretty bad), and the US isn't really far behind them in terms of alcohol dependence by those measures, but France isn't really low on these scales I've seen. It is very hard to measure true rates of alcoholism because there isn't any way to really do it, but various surveys have tried using different diagnostic criteria, and some sampling (and you can measure some diseases that are highly correlated with alcohol abuase).
Anyway, the WHO's healthcare measure was a reflection of a lot of things -- quality, cost and accessibility.
Mar 7th, 2006, 01:21 PM
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kerouac,
Whatever the merits of the French health care system as a whole, I would not claim that the treatment in elderly care is necessarily better. I've been involved on both sides of the ocean, and when I describe New York State's home-care Medicaid coverage (which is not the same as California's in terms of eligibility), the friends in France agree that it might be better than what is available in France. I gather your mother is not in a home, because if she were, be expected to contribute to her care according to <b>your</b> income; which is fair enough, but not the case in the States.
Whatever the merits of the French health care system as a whole, I would not claim that the treatment in elderly care is necessarily better. I've been involved on both sides of the ocean, and when I describe New York State's home-care Medicaid coverage (which is not the same as California's in terms of eligibility), the friends in France agree that it might be better than what is available in France. I gather your mother is not in a home, because if she were, be expected to contribute to her care according to <b>your</b> income; which is fair enough, but not the case in the States.
Mar 7th, 2006, 01:26 PM
#16
Percentage of smokers :
#1 Austria 36.3%
#2 Greece 35%
#3 Hungary 33.8%
#4 Luxembourg 33%
#5 Turkey 32.1%
#6 Netherlands 32%
#7 Korea, South 30.4%
#8 Japan 30.3%
#9 Spain 28.1%
#10 Denmark 28%
#11 Poland 27.6%
#12 Belgium 27%
#13 Ireland 27%
#14 France 27%
#15 Switzerland 26.8%
#16 Mexico 26.4%
#17 United Kingdom 26%
#18 Norway 26%
#19 New Zealand 25%
#20 Germany 24.3%
#21 Slovakia 24.3%
#22 Italy 24.2%
#23 Czech Republic 24.1%
#24 Iceland 22.4%
#25 Finland 22.2%
#26 Portugal 20.5%
#27 Australia 19.8%
#28 Sweden 17.5%
#29 United States 17.5%
#30 Canada 17%
Alcohol consumption :
#1 Luxembourg 15.5 litres per capita
#2 France 14.8 litres per capita
#3 Ireland 13.5 litres per capita
#4 Hungary 13.4 litres per capita
#5 Czech Republic 12.1 litres per capita
#6 Spain 11.7 litres per capita
#7 Denmark 11.5 litres per capita
#8 Portugal 11.4 litres per capita
#9 United Kingdom 11.2 litres per capita
#10 Austria 11.1 litres per capita
#11 Switzerland 10.8 litres per capita
#12 Belgium 10.7 litres per capita
#13 Germany 10.2 litres per capita
#14 Australia 9.8 litres per capita
#15 Netherlands 9.7 litres per capita
#16 Korea, South 9.3 litres per capita
#17 Finland 9.3 litres per capita
#18 Greece 9.2 litres per capita
#19 New Zealand 8.9 litres per capita
#20 United States 8.3 litres per capita
#21 Poland 8.1 litres per capita
#22 Italy 8 litres per capita
#23 Canada 7.8 litres per capita
#24 Slovakia 7.6 litres per capita
#25 Japan 7.6 litres per capita
#26 Sweden 7 litres per capita
#27 Iceland 6.5 litres per capita
#28 Norway 6 litres per capita
#29 Mexico 4.6 litres per capita
#30 Turkey 1.5 litres per capita
#1 Austria 36.3%
#2 Greece 35%
#3 Hungary 33.8%
#4 Luxembourg 33%
#5 Turkey 32.1%
#6 Netherlands 32%
#7 Korea, South 30.4%
#8 Japan 30.3%
#9 Spain 28.1%
#10 Denmark 28%
#11 Poland 27.6%
#12 Belgium 27%
#13 Ireland 27%
#14 France 27%
#15 Switzerland 26.8%
#16 Mexico 26.4%
#17 United Kingdom 26%
#18 Norway 26%
#19 New Zealand 25%
#20 Germany 24.3%
#21 Slovakia 24.3%
#22 Italy 24.2%
#23 Czech Republic 24.1%
#24 Iceland 22.4%
#25 Finland 22.2%
#26 Portugal 20.5%
#27 Australia 19.8%
#28 Sweden 17.5%
#29 United States 17.5%
#30 Canada 17%
Alcohol consumption :
#1 Luxembourg 15.5 litres per capita
#2 France 14.8 litres per capita
#3 Ireland 13.5 litres per capita
#4 Hungary 13.4 litres per capita
#5 Czech Republic 12.1 litres per capita
#6 Spain 11.7 litres per capita
#7 Denmark 11.5 litres per capita
#8 Portugal 11.4 litres per capita
#9 United Kingdom 11.2 litres per capita
#10 Austria 11.1 litres per capita
#11 Switzerland 10.8 litres per capita
#12 Belgium 10.7 litres per capita
#13 Germany 10.2 litres per capita
#14 Australia 9.8 litres per capita
#15 Netherlands 9.7 litres per capita
#16 Korea, South 9.3 litres per capita
#17 Finland 9.3 litres per capita
#18 Greece 9.2 litres per capita
#19 New Zealand 8.9 litres per capita
#20 United States 8.3 litres per capita
#21 Poland 8.1 litres per capita
#22 Italy 8 litres per capita
#23 Canada 7.8 litres per capita
#24 Slovakia 7.6 litres per capita
#25 Japan 7.6 litres per capita
#26 Sweden 7 litres per capita
#27 Iceland 6.5 litres per capita
#28 Norway 6 litres per capita
#29 Mexico 4.6 litres per capita
#30 Turkey 1.5 litres per capita
Mar 7th, 2006, 01:47 PM
#17
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I couldn't find the report on their website, but as the magazine seems to cater to cashed-up expats ("buy a ski lodge in Switzerland!"
I doubt that it has much relevance to ordinary citizens and travellers. Almost anywhere can be pretty good if you have enough money.
I doubt that it has much relevance to ordinary citizens and travellers. Almost anywhere can be pretty good if you have enough money.
Mar 8th, 2006, 08:01 AM
#18
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Regards French health care and elderly - i do believe i read recently that French women now live longer on an average than in any other country. Men are probably dragged down by effects of alcoholism - cirrohsis, etc. But women's longetivity is some kind a testimony to a great health care system.
So what if 10-15,000 seniors needlessly died in the heat wave of 2004 - it wasn't thru poor health care but lack of anyone giving it to them.
So what if 10-15,000 seniors needlessly died in the heat wave of 2004 - it wasn't thru poor health care but lack of anyone giving it to them.
Mar 8th, 2006, 09:43 AM
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"French also i believe have one of the developed world's highest rate of taking depression medicine and smoking and drinking - lycee kids have the highest rate of cannabis use in Europe "
And a longer life expectancy than US.
Peter
And a longer life expectancy than US.
Peter
Mar 8th, 2006, 09:57 AM
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"Percentage of smokers:
#30 Canada 17%
Alcohol consumption:
#23 Canada 7.8 litres per capita"
Hmmm ... someone's been smoking my share of the cigarets, but I'm getting their share of the booze.
Christina, given your field of expertise, you may have seen a special report in a recent issue of <i>The Economist</i> on "America's Health Care Crisis." Interesting reading, although some complain that that newspaper is never very sympathetic to the US. It was in the January 28th issue, if you'd like to read it.
Anselm
#30 Canada 17%
Alcohol consumption:
#23 Canada 7.8 litres per capita"
Hmmm ... someone's been smoking my share of the cigarets, but I'm getting their share of the booze.
Christina, given your field of expertise, you may have seen a special report in a recent issue of <i>The Economist</i> on "America's Health Care Crisis." Interesting reading, although some complain that that newspaper is never very sympathetic to the US. It was in the January 28th issue, if you'd like to read it.
Anselm
