Fowler asks....once again
 

A few years ago, in a moment of whimsy, I posed a question asking the distinction, if any, between a tourist and a traveler. It prompted a number of responses ranging from a tourist being defined as a travel neophyte laden with maps, guidebooks and cameras scurrying through 18 countries in 14 days to the definition of a traveler as merely being a tourist with an ego, an attitude and an air of superiority. The tourist prepares for Europe with Rick Steves; the traveler’s visit to Rome is preceded by engrossing hours devoted to Gibbon’s “Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire”. <BR> <BR>After ruminating for a number of years, I’ve come to the conclusion that regardless of our experience with and extent of our travels, whether the upcoming trip to Paris is our first or fifteenth, we are and will always be essentially strangers in a strange land. Hot water faucets in France marked “C”, closet sized rooms in Parisian hotels, curtainless showers throughout Europe, Gray Swiss cows parading through villages wearing floral headdresses, gourmet menus featuring stomach linings (tripe) and thymus glands (sweetbreads), ruby red beers in Bruge, recorded messages in London’s tube stations warning us to “Mind the Gap!” all are constant and ever-present reminders that we are in strange environments. How strange a city such as Madrid, asleep at three in the afternoon, vibrantly alive with its strolling window-shoppers at one in the morning. How odd the newstands and kiosks of London or Paris with their vast number of daily city newspapers in contrsst to the few we find in American cities. How enigmatic the size of the city, town?, country? of “Ausfahrt” in Germany. How puzzling that young Netherlanders fluently speak idiomatic American English rather than that of their North Sea neighbors. <BR> <BR>So strangers, what have you found to be strange and how have you coped with it? With humor; with frustration; with animosity; with “Ugly Americanisms”; with a laissez-faire attitude; with wonderment and awe? What say you? <BR>

Wonderment and awe for me, Wes. The reason I go in the first place is to enjoy the sense of oddity and strangeness, of stepping out of my routine and into another world where everything is strange and new and wonderful to me, like Alice through the glass. I don't really think much about the difference between a traveler and a tourist. I'm happy being either. We're all travelers in this life aren't we? Honestly, though, I never feel as at home in my own skin as I do when I'm literally traveling (on a plane, a train - hate airports tho'). When I'm between destinations I feel like I have a more objective perspective on life and I get all these wonderful ideas. How do I cope with the unusual once I arrive? I embrace it usually. But so far I've been to fairly ordinary destinations. I've never been stuck out in back of nowhere having to eat iguana or roasted insects. Maybe I have yet to be tested.

Wes, at it again , I see. <BR> <BR>By the way, the Van Loon Museum in Amsterdam was good advice as Mary and I enjoyed the very different and interesting perspective of a canal house. <BR> <BR>I guess, that somewhat like you, I scratch my head at some of the "European" things that we see, sometimes don't understand, but enjoy all the same. <BR> <BR>When I first saw a bidet in Paris: What could THAT be for? Seeing a man in his late 20's walking naked down the street in Frankfurt. The cows parading down the main street in Garmisch at 4:00 in the afternoon with dozens of cars backed up waiting. Walking along a beach in Cannes on pebbles: No sand? Standing inside the former border at "Checkpoint Charlie" before the wall came down and thinking about all of the history... <BR> <BR>All of it so different and interesting. It's easy to get hooked and stay that way. I guess that I'll always be a tourist, but at least I can be a semi-educated one, maybe.

Wes: Food for thought... In my case, I guess I make the distinction as follows: When I enter a country/city for the first time, I tend to take the "easy" way to get my feel for the lay of the land: Big Bus tours, guidebooks to direct me to the museums, must-sees, etc. I think of myself then as a tourist--seeking to tour the advertised/well known points of interest. When I return, I can be content sitting at an outdoor cafe in the early morning sipping cappucino and watching the people go to work or browsing bookstores or heading down side streets with no panic about what to do if I get lost and heading for no famous site. I'll talk to strangers if the occasion arises as I stand at the bar in a local. I'll seek smaller, more intimate hotels or B&Bs in the neighborhoods I found (on my fist visit) to be most "homelike." Then, I think of myself as a traveler--I've simply exchanged my home town for the one I'm in at the moment. They both have their advantages--the tourist in me is excited by the thrill of a new place, a new culture, new exploration. The traveler who returns is anxious for the comfort of returning to (somewhat) familiar surroundings and getting that less frenetic "ah, I'm so happily content to just enjoy the scenary" feeling.

Well say !! Wes. <BR> <BR>Never thought about the differences between tourists and travelers. <BR> <BR>"I am a stranger here myself", To me,the main reason to travel is to see something new, experience new cultures and customs, understand another life-styles,explore new pathes. Doesn't matter how many times I visit a place, there is always something new to learn. <BR> <BR>As curious as a child, with wonderment and awe, I look forward to strangenes.

Public transportation: where do I composte? does the door open automatically or do I have to open it? what's the word for exit? can I transfer? what the hell zone is the Smurf Museum in? <BR> <BR>Public toilets: do I pay the woman or is the stall coin-operated? do I push, pull, yank or wave to get the stupid thing to flush? do I step, knee or wave to turn on the tap? where the f**k are the towels? <BR> <BR>Shared toilets in hotels/B&Bs: flushing as above. if I have to go, can I knock? if I really really have to go, can I ask to go first? whom do I tell if we're out of toilet paper? <BR> <BR>Groceries: where the h e double hockey sticks is the milk?? whaddya mean I have to weigh my own produce? - all those d**n pictures on the machine look alike, I can't tell which are cucumbers and which are zucchini. what's the metric equivalent of a halfapound? (surprisingly, deli clerks everywhere understand fists..."how much do you want?" "two fists worth" "eh bien je comprends") <BR> <BR>The one thing that stumped me the first time I saw it, and still to this day has me dumbfounded: that pine log that the French call a pillow with the sheet half wrapped over it: it's the wrong height for the Japanese block theory; you can't lean against it to read in bed (like you could with the bedlamp with the same wattage as a glow-in-the-dark watch); you can't move it into another position without undoing the entire bed; you break your fist if you try to punch it. And don't tell me "oh we're used to it" - people were used to raw sewage running down the middle of the street 'til they wised up. <BR> <BR>

Elvira - I want to meet you someday. You always make me laugh. Thanks for that!

Perhaps the most awe-inspiring and, yes, "foreign" experience for me in traveling overseas has been the realization that in places like Rome history is measured in millenia.....certainly something that is alien to us Americans who measure history in centuries. When walking down a ramp to the Roman Forum, I could only feel overwhelmed to think that I was walking on the exact same stones, the same surface that Romans had trod more than 2,000 years ago. And, as I walked down Roman streets, all I could think of was "Hey, these aren't relics in a museum but parts of the real street scene!" Awesome!

<BR>Simple--- <BR> <BR>Wes is a tourist. <BR>Rex is a traveler. <BR> <BR>Boris (isboredwithpompous pontificating pundits)

and Boris is a bore. <BR> <BR>I think it's a great question, Wes.

How about “visitor?” Don’t visitors enter into the environment more than tourists or travelers? Sounds more people-oriented, less place-oriented or transient. ("We have visitors coming," rather than "We have travelers coming.") Or is this just semantics? <BR> <BR>I for one am struck at people visiting places simply to see remnants and records of dead folks, rather than observing, maybe entering into (to whatever extent possible or advisable) the current life and culture of the locale. I think a lot of people (ourselves included, truth be told) often “put up” with the modern-day unfamiliar and confusing in order to get to the cute or the quaint or the historic. That’s not to downplay the draw of the ancient or the handiwork of long-dead builders or painters, but I think visitors who seek out the now, as well as the then, ultimately gain a richer experience. Quick – what are some of the current political or social issues in _______? If you’re reading this board, you know how to find out… <BR> <BR>I agree about the French “pillows,” which are in the same category as “double” or “matrimonial” beds all over the place. Double if you both fit in those suits of armor, made for Sir Mickey Rooney the Younger, Knight. <BR>

I have a problem with the alleged distiction between tourists and travelers. What are we supposed to say? That travelers are more sophisticated than mere tourists? Of course, everyone answering on this thread is a "traveler" (pat, pat on back), so we are better than people using Rick Steeves (or whatever guidebook you want to debunk this week), aren't we? No, we aren't. <BR> <BR>Tourists and travelers are the same. People who think they are "travelers" are tourists who think they are more suave than ordinary type mortal tourists. But, there is really no difference. <BR> <BR>Someone in the office asked me how many times I had been to Europe the other day. I couldn't tell him. It's that many. OK, I am getting up to the point where I will be referred to as an Old Fart. But, of course, I am still a tourist traveler because I don't live in Europe; I just visit. <BR> <BR>How do you cope with strange things? On all trips, whether within the US or in foreign countries, things go wrong. Sometimes you cry, sometimes you "lose" your French when stopped for running a red light accidentally (why are the traffic lights in the wrong place?), sometimes you repair to the phrase book, and sometimes you panic. Jumping up and down also helps take the edge off the stress--and don't mention having to buy underpants in Germany because you forgot yours (and you don't speak German). <BR> <BR>Sometimes you shout in English thinking the poor beknighted ticketseller in the Vienna train station will understand English if you shout. Sometimes he shouts back in German under the mistaken impression that you will understand what he is saying if he shouts. And, sometimes, you realize that you know exactly what he is saying because your parents--God bless 'em--spoke Yiddish in your house when you were a kid so you wouldn't understand. <BR> <BR>It is all part of the experience. <BR> <BR>And, where is that town called "Ausfart"? I saw signs to it all over but I never found it. <BR>

Elvira, your post was a hoot. <BR> <BR>Don't forget the little packs of tissues for the toilets without paper. And do pack immodium and suppositories to be prepared for all emergencies.

Just a thought: <BR> <BR>Is a tourist there to see and a traveller there to experience?

To this day, I am still in wonderment and awe that I have been to Europe so many times and I am still in awe every single time I go whether I have been to the city before or not. Why? Because it's there. I always dreamed of travelling to far away countries but felt I would have to wait until I retired. Not so. I am in awe of the differences in the cultures and in spite of the differences, people that don't speak your language are friendly and helpful whether you're buying something from them or passing them on the street. People often worry about clothes, shoes, hotels, hoof & mouth, trains, planes & automobiles. All of those issues are a small concern to me. I worry how much I can experience within the small time I have alloted for my travels. But mostly I am in awe and wonderment about how much better the wine tastes in a trattoria in Italy than in the finest restaurants in the U.S. Thanks for asking Wes.

Great thread Wes. And Rhonda, you are right on with your definition. I think of a tourist as someone who says "well, I've already been there, don't need to go back." A traveler is someone who keeps going back to experience more. <BR> <BR>And Elvira, I've missed your wild humor. You need to plan a trip for fellow Fodorites just so we can see the world through your eyes! What an experience that would be!!!!

I would call a traveller someone whose life revolves around travel. Who comes back just the time needed to pay for his next plane ticket and then is gone for months. Or for years, finding some work on the way...and popping up every other year for christmas, telling you how great is life in some place you weren't even aware it existed and why he must nevertheless leave it else he could die without having ever seen the Baikal lake. <BR> <BR>And the other tourists...

As I said last time you asked about this topic, I think there is a real difference. Call them "tourists," "travelers," "vacationers," or whatever you choose. We can argue about words all we like, but no doubt some people travel to go on vacation and some travel to learn about the world. One is not necessarily better than the other, but they are different. Actually, when it comes down to it, we are all probably both depending on the time and place.. <BR> <BR>How do I react to strange situations? Well, considering that many people probably think I am strange myself - no surprise - I love them [the strange situations]. The stranger for me the better, unless strange means life threatening or severely uncomfortable. I travel to see things that are different than the norm at home; if they were not "strange," I would be very disappointed. I really like Europe, but China was fascinating.

I think everyone starts out a tourist/visitor - at birth. Eventually, we get enough knowledge to appreciate the experiences that life hurls at us, and then we get to be called travellers. <BR> <BR>Then again, some people will always be tourists no matter where they are (I bet we all work with at least two of those)...

My thoughts are similar to Rhonda's distiction between a desire to see vs a desire to experience. <BR>To me a tourist is someone who has a checklist of sights to tick off, makes little effort to immerse themselves in the culture by learning at least a little of the language or considers it 'unamerican' or whatever when it is suggested they may benefit by dressing so as to blend in with the locals or ridicule things because they are 'different to what they are at home' be it customs, the plumbing, the coffee etc etc. This is not meant to be snobby in the least as I think most people make some effort to learn about & appreciate the culture of the country they have the privilege of visiting. <BR>Just my 2c...