Michel_Paris

"Omelettes are not made without breaking eggs"

"Any institution which does not suppose the people good, and the magistrate corruptible, is evil"

Robespierre

Powell

The program "The French Revolution" was a good overview of what occurred. It had too many stretchers for my taste,however, repeats of Robespierre, etc. It should have shown more of what the French people went through before the Revolution-over taxation (imposition of the "gabelle", a tax on salt, a staple of life), starvation, corrupt monarchy.

The violence did get out of hand and is always a danger of happening when the people are so abused.

I suggest the book "Citizens" by Simon Schama as a good overview of the French Revolution.

France does have an overblown idea of its role in today's world. But it also is one of the most beautiful countries in the world. Its art, its language, etc. are the envy of the world.

One other thing one might say about France is, like America, it got rid of monarchy- something the British still have not been able to do. The antics of that moron Prince Harry are but the latest vulgarity of this inbred, non-working elite.

Vive La France! Vive Les Etats Unis!

ira

Hi all,

I fell asleep before the end.

How did the Revolution turn out?

PatrickLondon

How do they all turn out? "Plus ça change.." and all that...

Jed

"How did the Revolution turn out?"

They lost.

ckenb

The revolution always loses, unfortunately. Or at least appears to. Two steps forward, one step back.

Ronda

I am wondering exactly how many people were beheaded and how long it went on (I fell asleep too) because this program made me believe that it went on for years and all the upper class were eleminated.

Robespierre

90,000.

Five years.

The upper classes were no more eliminated than a hole remains in water when you take away a bucketful.

travelbunny

missread the topic heading completely! ..my response (to my incorrect reading ) would have been in my experience never more than 15mins..

Chele60

Quote: "I am wondering exactly how many people were beheaded and how long it went on (I fell asleep too) because this program made me believe that it went on for years and all the upper class were eleminated."

Here is just a few factual tidbits:

1. Executions in Paris totalled 2,639: more than half (1,515) the victims perished during June and July, 1794.

2. In all France, Revolutionary tribunals and commissions were responsible for the execution of almost 17,000 individuals.

3. Including those who died in overcrowded, disease-ridden prisons and insurgents shot summarily on the field of battle, the victims of the Reign of Terror totalled approximately 40,000.

4. Of those condemned by the Revolutionary tribunals, approximately 8 per cent were nobles, 6 per cent were members of the clergy, 14 per cent belonged to the middle class, and 70 per cent were workers or peasants charged with avoiding conscription, desertion, hoarding, rebellion, and various other crimes.

The "Reign of Terror" started in 1793 and officially ended in July 1794. That ended most of the executions, however individuals still died or were killed until 1799. I think it interesting that the majority of those killed were peasants. But then, the aristocracy would have been much smaller in comparison to the peasant class. Also, I do believe there were members of the noble class who either escaped or evaded capture.

cigalechanta

A book to read is Deborah Cadbury's "The Lost king Of France", Revolution, Revenge and the search for Louis the XV11. When Marie-Antoinette was beheaded, her beloved eight year old son was imprisoned in the temole tower. What follows reads like a wonderful detective story.

jahoulih

Ira asked, "How did the Revolution turn out?"

When Chou En-lai was asked what he thought of the French Revolution, he replied, "It's too soon to tell."

ira

I find it very interesting that the world studies the French, Russian, Chinese and, even, Cuban revolutions with great interest, yet the only successful major revolutions were Great Britain in 1688 and the US in 1776.

(Ducking)

tedgale

Queen Mary to the Prince of Wales (later Edward VIII, later Duke of Windsor) when he once used the "breaking eggs" cliche:

"People are not eggs, David."

Dr_DoGood

Ira... well surely that depends on how you define "successful".

I'm sure there are millions of Chinese, Russians and Cubans who could claim their Revolutions were extremely successful.
Outside of the intellectual Left there are few in France who would not proudly proclaim their own as wholly successful.

And for the opposite perspective I am quite certain that from a Hanoverian point of view the American Revolution wasn't deemed a success at all!

Dr D.

tedgale

Re Hanoverians and the American Revolution:

Yeah I'm still sick about it -- though it did bring one of my paternal ancestors to Canada: discharged, British army April, 1783 -- settled in Canada 1784. (On my mother's side they were here by 1773, part of Lord Lovat Fraser's settlement in Pictou, Nova Scotia

Neil_Oz

The American Revolution was successful from Australia's point of view, anyway. The loss of the American colonies left Britain with nowhere to send its convict overflow; this led to the establishment of a colony at what's now Sydney in January 1788, and British possession of the entire continent. Of course our Aboriginal peoples have a less positive view of this development. Arguably New Zealand also may not have been settled had Britain not had a presence across the Tasman Sea.

I had occasion to ponder the the Chinese revolution while visiting China recently. Superficially it looks like a failure when you see the rapacious capitalism now engulfing the country. On the other hand I think the overthrow of the old order introduced an egalitarian spirit, including the notion of universal access to education and health care, that provides some opportunity for ordinary Chinese to aspire to a better material life. Would this have happened without the revolution? Doubtful. But you do have to take into account the human cost of Mao's crazier initiatives.

PatrickLondon

I'm not so sure the American revolution wasn't a success from Britain's point of view too (but maybe this is one for the BBC's History- What if? message board): if the independence movement had been defeated, Britain would have been trying to abolish slavery in the south in the 1830s, as it did elsewhere in the Empire: and what would have happened then?

ira

>I had occasion to ponder the the Chinese revolution while visiting China recently. Superficially it looks like a failure when you see the rapacious capitalism now engulfing the country.<

That's an interesting take.

I hadn't considered the Communist Revolution as having failed because it now accepts Communism.

The earlier Chinese revolution failed when the Emporer was replaced by the warlords.

The French revolution failed when the King was replaced by the Emporer.

The Russian revolution failed when the Tsar was replace by the Communists.

The Cuban revolution failed when the corrupt dictator was replaced by a Communist dictator.

etc, etc, etc

Thank G-d for G. Washington.

Robespierre

The French traded the Louis' for the Napoleons.

The Russians traded the Romanovs for Lenin and Stalin.

The Chinese traded the Qing for the Comintern.

The Cubans traded Batista for Castro.

I think it's a toss-up in every instance. Only the US succeeded.